Are some humans just born evil/bad or made that way?

Yes, they’re called sociopaths.

It’s not about TV. TV is far more a reflection of our cultural thinking than a cause of it.

I don’t think anyone is born bad, though some people are born with problematic conditions such as nervous-system or bio-chemical disorders that can certainly effect thinking, emotions, perceptions, and the whole experience of life.

However I think the main cause of bad behavior, including chronic behavior problems all the way up to sociopaths, psychopaths and serial killers and corrupt politicians and corporate executives, is bad childhood experiences. Infants who don’t get enough human empathy often become socially crippled and can have horrible behavior problems and no empathy (see the classic example of the result of a generation of Romanian children where many of them got little or no infant empathy, and many of them became sociopaths – same thing has happened in animal breeding programs where the breeders separate them from their mothers). Then there’s a whole childhood full of opportunities for abuse of all kinds. There’s a massive amount of unreported child abuse and molestation, which begets many awful parents for the next generation, etc. Most abusers were abused, and when that doesn’t get healed, it builds up and gets released as one form of angry behavior or another.

The backwards punitive attitudes in our education system, many churches, tough love theories, our justice system and laws (particularly the lack of effective counters to abusive and bad parents) make it worse, and are also symptoms of this general pattern, in my opinion.

I would say lack of nurture (and abuse, particularly molestation) is almost always the root cause of evil, rather than any genetic condition.

Do we know of even one sociopath that didn’t have a pretty horrible upbringing?

This topic fascinates me. Based upon everything I have ever experienced, read or watched, @Zaku‘s response is spot-on. It all boils down to dysfunctional nurture.

@Zaku I agree that TV is not the prime cause, though violence can have an effect or have a desensitizing effect i don’t think it’s down to that i do agree with the bad childhood, but think another factor could possibly also be chemical imbalances in the brain, but great answer indeed.

I think there are people who are born without a conscience, just like there are people born without limbs or heart valves. These people never develop the ability for empathy and they are perfectly capable of throwing a kitten into a microwave just to see what would happen. And I think there are people who are damaged along the way who enjoy inflicting physical, emotional, and psychological pain. It doesn’t matter to me how they got the way they are. I’m not curious. I’m not their therapist. I want them gone from my midst and I will do whatever it takes to make them gone.

@Espiritus_Corvus we all have a conscience, some people just don’t use theirs, i have to agree such types of people gone would make the world a far better place, they are worse than animals.

No, some people do NOT have a conscience. They couldn’t possibly do some of the horrific things they do, if they did.

@Dutchess_III I believe we all DO have a conscience SOME just choose to ignore it, doesn’t mean it’s not their it’s amazing what the human mind can blot out if one really wants to…when people say someone doesn’t have a conscience it’s because they refuse, and choose to completely ignore it, that is when such people are fighting this internal battle within themselves…you see it with psycho’s they kill they cry not out of remorse they have this internal battle that’s the conscience kicking in they are i think we all would agree scum of the earth.

@Safie Live long enough and have enough interaction with other human beings, go into the medical field for a few years, and you will learn otherwise. Some sociopaths are born to it, trust me.

Can a person be called bad if they were either made or born to be so? I can’t wrap my head around that.

If I, as a parent, abuse my child to the point of killing their empathy…who is bad in this scenario? At what point does one stop being the victim?

What difference does it make? When you find yourself the victim of one of these people, when you have to work for one of them, or they have the least influence upon your life in any way, the intellectual exercise that is being conducted here seems really, really futile and beside the point entirely. The point is to get rid of them before they pass the same damage on to others and thereby propagate. As stated above, they are worse than animals and need to be isolated from other humans before they can spread their disease.

@Espiritus_Corvus Well said!

I can’t fully answer this question with my own experience in witnessing this without the potential offenders figuring out that I’m writing about them – but based on observation I’d agree is @Espiritus_Corvus is correct…but I do believe there is a bio-sociological aspect.

That is, those that are born with a genetic disposition to become sociopaths/psychopaths are probably born into predominately dysfunctional families and are abused and neglected. So, in addition to the genetic predisposition, they are likely “learning” from the worst possible adults (can’t call them parents – when truly they are abusive to their offspring).

I wonder if these children were instead adopted into loving, healthy families and if early intervention with CBT (Cognitive Behavior Therapy – which many believe can actually “re-wire” the brain to a degree) and other therapies might actually prevent them from becoming sociopaths.

I think a true sociopath is born that way. Some probably aren’t as bad as others and need a trigger and use common sense to not do anything that will simply make their lives difficult unless provoked. Like the way that all autistic kids aren’t the same. Some can function better out in the world than others. But some are so bad that they live in their own world and can’t function without the aid of others.

I am not saying they are the same. Just saying that maybe there are different levels of being a sociopath. And the worse of those become murders. Trigger or no trigger, they always had it in them to want to inflict pain because it gives them joy. They don’t feel joy for anything else and probably loathe that they are surrounded by people who feel things. I think it is their way of paying back for being born that way. At least. It is my theory. Or maybe I am giving them too much credit and they simply do it because they can. Since most are narcissist as well.

@geeky_mama I have met a loving parent who had two children. She loved them both equally and both were girls. She had to send her eldest away because she could not handle her. She was always distant, even as a baby and her behavior grew worse when her mother had a second child. The second child was affectionate but not her first child. Mom was a very caring mom and tried everything. Even got her oldest into therapy. She was told that her first born could not be trusted with the youngest. She would hurt her and meant her bodily harm. She sent her to her grandma for about 2 years but I think grandma couldn’t handle her any longer and sent her back.

These kids where in our day care and her oldest had to be watched a lot because she would try to hurt other children. She didn’t get kicked out because we made sure she was never in a position to hurt other kids but she came close a few times.

She gave us all the creeps. When she looked at us, it was as if we were ants and she held a match. When her mother would show up. She would act like she was an angel all day.
Her mom had a lot of scratches and bruises on her arms that her daughter did to her when she went into one of her rages.

Her second child was a sweet angel. Same home. Two totally different people.

@Pandora Based upon that one example, it is understandable why you believe that the elder daughter’s behavior stems from something biological. Couldn’t it have been caused by factors in their development though? Possibly something that you are not aware of that was happening behind closed doors?

Based upon this article, I may have to stand corrected to a degree.

The cause of psychopathy is different than the cause of sociopathy (1). It is believed that psychopathy is the result of “nature” (genetics) while sociopathy is the result of “nurture” (environment). Psychopathy is related to a physiological defect that results in the underdevelopment of the part of the brain responsible for impulse control and emotions. Sociopathy, on the other hand, is more likely the product of childhood trauma and physical/emotional abuse. Because sociopathy appears to be learned rather than innate, sociopaths are capable of empathy in certain limited circumstances but not in others, and with a few individuals but not others. Source

@Espiritus_Corvus Was your response directed at me?

@longgone No. It was directed at the discussion in general, the effort of layman attempting to make sense of these things. I understand the interest, but I don’t share it and it doesn’t matter to me whether or not these people become this way due to nurture or nature. I’m not their therapist. I am, if anything, their adversary.

I have run across these people on the job and in private life. They spread heartache and misery into every life they touch. I don’t split hairs about whether I’m dealing with a sociopath or a psychopath. They are dangerous, manipulating, often sadistic scum and need to be treated as such, never allowed to be placed in power positions, banished to the lower echelons of the powerless, or simply locked away from the rest of us.

“We’re human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands! But we can stop it. We can admit that we’re killers… but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill today!”
—Kirk, “A Taste of Armageddon”

@RocketGuy Interesting answer! puts another spin on the debate.

@Pandora – I’m convinced. Your story reminded me of a news story I saw that had a similar situation – but a family of three. They ended up having to have two separate apartments and the parents took “shifts” living in the apartment with the disturbed child. They had to, for the safety of their two other children, keep them apart from their sibling.

The show focused on the financial burden, exhaustion and inadequate mental health services for minors (when she was really in a dangerous and constantly psychotic state they’d call the hospital that their doctors were associated with and see if a bed was available – and often one was not.) In the end they also (when she was entering puberty and seriously injuring her parents) sent her away to a specialized facility and from the sounds of it she is doing better there…but still…the two other children are intelligent, empathetic, loving and without mental illness (despite a stressful family environment – which must demonstrate great resilience, too).

Sounds like some people are just “born that way”.

@Espiritus_Corvus Got it.

@Pied_Pfeffer If that were true that it is only through environment, then food fetishes and any behavior out of norm would be the same way. I believe the brain to be an extremely complicated organ, and the same way that some people are born without limbs, they may be missing the very thing that makes us human. A tumor in the right spot can change a persons character or even injury to a certain part of the brain. Even chemistry in the body can change a persons behavior. Just notice the changes that happen to some women when their hormones change. Not everything relating to behavior is because of something , someone did.

But yes. It is possible her parents were a nightmare at home who for some reason treated her horribly and not the other child. But it wasn’t only my opinion that is was unlikely. I don’t think they would’ve hired a child therapist to help them. They would’ve done everything possible to hide their secret. And they were also the most meek parents I have ever met. They were always looking for counsel on what to do. Dad was deployed a lot and when he was home, he was a doting dad. I don’t remember what mom did for work but she would hold onto the girls till it was time for work and never picked them up late. On her days off, she wouldn’t bring them in. She loved being a mom and always felt guilty for working.

Not like some parents who dropped their kids off at 6 am and barely made it in time to pick them up before we closed.

- I meant foot fetish-

@Pandora That sounds like it may be a case of defect or damage as you suggest, thought it’s possible it could also be something from early events, perhaps something the parents don’t realize happened or didn’t happen. Children (and adults) can definitely behave as you describe without having brain damage, if they didn’t form an empathic bond with anyone as infants, or if something happened that got them organized towards sociopathy.

@Pandora We seem to be getting closer to agreeing, but not quite there yet.

Out-of-the-norm behaviors shouldn’t be considered “evil/bad”. It’s when a society’s laws and/or ethics are breached that it should raise an eyebrow. Using your example, if a person has a foot fetish, so be it, unless it crosses a boundary. How many people with a foot fetish do you know or have read about in the news?

Yes, the brain is an extremely complicated organ. No one admits to completely understanding it. Pull up any site about psychopath vs. sociopath and you will see that there are not only different opinions on the definition but on the cause.

So we aren’t there yet, but evidence points to their environmental upbringing, although other factors may be involved. Do you consider substance abuse by the mother a reason for a child being born evil?

@Pied_Pfeffer I agree that substance abuse can maybe influence some brain defect. But it may even be some prescribed medications or maybe even being born before the brain is fully developed or maybe some physical changes in the mother while the baby is developing. Who knows what causes it. I think it could be a ton of things or maybe a combination of a few. Bad luck, genetics from both mother and father.

For example. My mom was O negative and my dad was A positive. I was child number 5 and my brother 4. Her body was reacting to me being positive. Back then they called it a blue blood baby. I had to be taken out early before full development. I was lucky I lived and they had to give me a full blood transfusion. Later I developed epilepsy. Luckily it went away and I have been seizure free since I was about 23. But who knows what caused it? Damage from being born too early. A fall. Being without proper oxygen, genetics, or severe illness.

There are some epileptics with severe seizures and other like myself who somehow recover. I can tell you what didn’t cause it. I wasn’t abused. I wasn’t neglected. I had a great childhood. I think the slightest thing off in your brain and there is no telling who or how you will turn out. Who knows. Maybe it’s even environmental. My seizures did disappear a year after moving. But then again it could be that hormonal changes in my body (due to being pregnant) changed my body chemistry to where it needed to be.

I don’t know if you can call someone evil who can’t grasps what it means to be evil. But someone who does someone extreme harm for any reason, certainly couldn’t be seen as good. And if they do derive pleasure from it, then there is no better adjective to describe the person with, other than to say they are evil.

How would you describe someone who tortures a child to death? You wouldn’t call them misunderstood, or complicated or even think of their background or simply abnormal. Most people with compassion will have compassion for most things but not that. Most of society would call that evil.