Is it possible to concede that those with political positions opposite your own might nevertheless be patriots?

I think they may have convinced themselves of that yes, and whatever the people pitch forking them money tell them to believe.
Hey @stanleybmanly you don’t have to suffer like us poor Canadians ,up here this year we have a Federal election, and next year You do so we will hear nothing but election SHIT yours and ours for the next 2 years,at least you guys don’t get media bombed by our election bullshit, just wish we were that lucky as well.

Yes when the elephant’s moving around in the yard, the smaller creatures had best pay attention.

In my opinion it is pretty creepy that you regard that as a peculiar notion.
It is one of the reasons that the First Amendment is there.

My point isn’t that it’s a peculiar notion. It is that it’s too easy to forget that political disagreement is possible without villainy or flaws in character attributable to either side.

@stanleybmanly
My point exactly
Further, disagreement is not evidence of a particular character flaw.

But it’s an interesting thought. Considering some of the speech around, a powerful argument can be made that stupidity itself is an “inalienable” right.

@stanleybmanly
Stupidity is certainly a right, especially since it involves choice.
But stupidity is not entitled to moral approval.
That was the whole point of the Enlightenment.

I think most Americans are patriots. They care about America and what they believe is best for the citizens of America. Accusing politicians and other Americans of being anti-American is almost always not valid in my opinion. They might be sound something UnAmerican from my perspective, but most likely not from theirs. They aren’t trying to destroy America, even if I might think they are doing things that take us off the path we should be on.

Your Q is really about intent. Both sides intend to help America. Most of the people on both sides, not all.

Never really considered myself a patriot, so it has not often occurred to me that others on the other side of my political fence were not.

Yes, except some people support the best interests of those fitting their narrow definition of “real” Americans.

I know for a fact that those who disagree with me love America, they have a distorted view of what America is. Many of them also have interesting ideas about reality as well, though there are some (sadly, a dwindling number) who are actually sane, rational, intelligent people. But no matter how outlandish their bullshit, I never for one second doubt their sincerity or patriotism. Their intelligence? Maybe. Their sanity? Probably. But never their heartfelt love for their interpretation of America.

@josie We need another Enlightenment; the last one wore off and there’s a lot of dim people around.

I generally assume that people with political positions opposite my own are more patriotic than I am. They seem far more willing than I am to believe in American exceptionalism and superiority.

I see lots of countries doing things a hell of a lot better than we do. We’ve done some impressive things in the past, but we can’t seem to get anything done anymore. There are certainly places more screwed up than us (sometimes because of us), but that’s hardly a great case for hubris.

That doesn’t mean that I don’t care about this country. I’m as much a part of it as anyone else, and that makes me all the more disappointed by its failings.