Hour per hour, are teachers paid better than cabbies, bus drivers, trucker, plumbers, etc.?

Better than cabbies, I think.
Better than bus drivers I think.
Trucker? IDK. Have to ask Squeeky on that one.
Hour per hour, I think plumbers make more BUT…if they aren’t working they don’t get paid.

Teachers work almost just as many hours outside the classroom as inside it.
There is a lot of preparing for lessons, preparing tests, correcting tests, writing reports and general paperwork, and of course dealing with obnoxious parents.

^ Teachers work almost just as many hours outside the classroom as inside it.
Is that paid work, or just stuff that comes with the territory like a trucker or cabby having to wash and vac their hack or their rig to keep it comfortable to use for them and customers? They have to do it, but they are not on the clock when they do.

The answer @Dutchess_III gave sounds right to me on average keeping in mind in some states teachers are paid extremely low and the answers might be different there.

Teachers don’t punch a time clock. They are “on” most of the time. Checking papers is far more necessary to the job than washing a hack is to a driver. Home visits make the difference sometimes between graduate or not. Making a lesson plan is not just a job description, it is required by law. Teacher pay, averaged out by hours worked comes closest to the hourly pay of SLAVE.

Once again, it depends on where they are. I just heard on the radio that Brownback’s flogging of Kansas teachers has doubled the applications of Kansas teachers to school districts in Missouri, insuring Kansas a bumper crop in future dummy politicians.

@Here2_4 Like a whole bunch of jobs in America, except teachers get two months off in the summer.

There is one undeniable fact about teaching that should scare the crap out of all of us. And that is that the slipping respect of the society at large for the profession can only lead to catastrophe in a country already distinguished for a population, notoriously deficient in critical thought.

No. My dad was a teacher and he didn’t make much, and he even had a MA. School districts are hard pressed for cash so usually hire the newbies out of college. The old teachers who deserve more, can’t get hired for this reason, much less get paid for what they’re worth.
Cabbies, truck drivers, bus drivers don’t need even a BA to do their work and they probably make more. Plumbers, like electricians, usually have to complete a 4-year apprenticeship, so they should and probably do make more.

I have posted on here before that my daughter’s kindergarten teacher makes over 130k a year. Public salaries (including mine as I am a public employee) are public information, and all the school system employees’ salaries are on the internet. The teachers and school nurse work 9 months a year. The nurse makes 60k. Like I said, the teachers that are nearing retirement make 130k a year, approximately (some a little more). Their day starts at 8 and ends at 3:15. They get 3 free periods per day and on months where there is no holiday, they get a “teacher’s conference day” off. I’m betting a cabbie works at least 8 to 10 hours per day and does not make 130k. Truck drivers, I’m betting don’t make that much either.

@kritiper In America most of the “old” teachers have tenure, retire young, and get a reasonable pension.

I don’t know of any teachers who retire “young.” The amount of pension they get hinges on how many years of service they put in. The longer they work, the more pension they get.

Teachers in the state I live in can retire after 20 years (and are in fact, encouraged to retire so that new, younger, lower paid teachers can come in). Like @JLeslie said, they have tenure, retire young (relatively young) and they get a great pension (again, all google-able).

There may be other issues that keep poorly performing teachers around, but tenure is not one of them. The politicians like to say that tenure is equal to a job for life. No it is not. The process for removal of a tenured school teacher is the same as most other employees – a written record of poor performance, and the unwillingness of the employee to change are grounds for dismissal.

Tenure means that a teacher cannot be fired for teaching or discussing politically controversial issues (like evolution, gay rights, religions, or political standings).

@jca, $130k sounds like a lot of money, and I am not saying it isn’t true, but in many salary listings they give an annualized salary and not the actual amount made in only 9 months. This can be done either to make comparisons between rates of pay between 9 and 12 month employees easier, or to make teacher salaries appear more inflated and suit a political agenda.

I’ve done a bit of poking and got more numbers than I care to list (I cross-checked instead of relying on a single source), and from what I see, teachers get paid more than the average cabbie or gardener, but slightly less than truck drivers or plumbers.

It stands to reason though as one thing teachers have in common with truckers and plumbers is needing certification to practice their trade legally. However, as physical as their job is, it’s not quite as physical as construction, and while teachers may take work home with them, at least they go home each night, which is better than many Truckers. Also, while they do do some training and other work stuff during the summer, they get a bit more time off.

@jca I am curious where you live then. The figures you cite are CONSIDERABLY above the median salary for K-12 teachers in the US. Are you European, or are you just someplace that is too far away from average to be considered a representative sample?

@Inara27: I have no doubt that the amount is accurate as stated. It’s one of the wealthiest areas in the country (bedroom community to NYC). I have verified with a relative of the teacher and the amount is accurate. The salary database is from the newspaper, and as I see my salary on there too, I can assure you the newspaper is accurate, as well. The salaries are FOILed (Freedom of Information Act).

@jerv: I’ll pm you where I live but I won’t post it here. It is a bedroom community to NYC, very wealthy (I’m not wealthy haha unfortunately). I’ll even give you the teacher’s name.

In the SF Bay Area they don’t make as much as transit workers. And they don’t get overtime, they have a salary. Transit workers get paid by the hour, and their base is well over $100K.

@Inara27 I’d like to see proof of that. My girlfriend was making just about $45k a year as a teacher in MI when we were about 5 years out of college and when she complained about her salary I came back with my usual, “but you only work 9 months a year,” and then I added, “so if you annualize it you make the equivalent to $60k.” Her response was, “we do get paid over the year, I only get $45.” My response, “It doesn’t matter if it’s paid in one lump sum or all year it’s still 9 of work.” She didn’t get it. She didn’t understand. She is teaching our (the big our) children.

I now say teachers teach 10 months, because I understand they do some preparation before and after the school year.

So, I question your possible interpretation of an annualized number. I can’t imagine the governments are posting annual salaries that are actually cut back based in the time the teacher actually works.

My girlfriend makes much more now, she graduated in ‘91 and got her masters a few years later. I don’t know if Michigan retirement is 20 years, it might be longer, but I doubt it is more than 30. I definitely know MI teachers who retired before the age of 60. Rules might have changed since.

My grandma got a pension from NY and she didn’t start teaching until her late 30’s I think. She taught/counselor in the same county as @jca I think, or maybe she taught in The Bronx, I don’t remember exactly.

@Inara27: There are many many articles from NYC newspapers about teachers who have tenure and are very hard to fire. They get put on administrative duty, meaning they’re not in front of classrooms, but they still get their salary and benefits. I can assure you that civil servants (which teachers are) are usually hard to fire, and not “the same as most other employees – a written record of poor performance, and the unwillingness of the employee to change are grounds for dismissal.”

Like most jobs, teacher pay does vary greatly based on location. Even here in Massachusetts, average teacher salary (see list) ranges from $33k to $98k (in 2013). I know a bunch of teachers. And while many of them work in towns near the top of this list, one thing they all have in common is the love of the lifestyle. There are advantages to being a teacher (hours/summer – even including the extra out-of-class work). This isn’t to say that teachers are paid what they deserve. I find no correlation between the value of work and the compensation. But capitalism has a way of determining compensation that doesn’t factor in value.

Way too many variables. Impossible to answer.

A first year teacher gets the minimum for the district. A 20-year teacher of physics probably makes double that.

Truck drivers? OTR makes a certain amount based on miles driven. Others get paid by the hour or the delivery. Location in the country makes a huge difference. Drivers in LA and New England make more than Nebraskans.

Cabbies are treated like crap everywhere. My guess is that they make the least.

If I had to estimate who is making most, it would be plumbers. But even them you have novice plumbers who make little, and the master plumbers who get top dollar. And then there is free-lancers versus working for a large plumbing shop.

What I am saying is that the range of salaries for every group you mentioned (except cabbies) is so wide and varying that there isn’t (and can’t) be one simple answer.

I’m guessing cabbies make the least per hour because in many cases, they’re immigrants and it’s unskilled labor, relatively speaking compared to being a teacher, which in many cases (all cases here in public schools in NYS) you need a Master’s Degree.

Well, I don’t know about other states, but in Kansas you need a Masters only for the high school level when you’re teaching specific secondary courses. For example, you teach strictly math, English, art, etcs. You get a masters in those areas.

You don’t need a masters to teach K-9, although you do need to keep current on certification, and that often means taking additional college courses through out your teaching career.

New York you can start with a BA and Teaching Certificate but you have 5 years to get a Masters to teach in any public school, no matter what grade. If you want to make way less you can teach in parochial or private school, and then they determine what the requirements are, but you may only make 25k.

@jca Actually, cabbies make relatively little because they are paid by the trip rather than by the hour, and they have to give a portion of their nightly take to the cab company to cover the lease of the cab.
Most people either get paid from the beginning of their shift to the end of their shift or are on salary, but a cabbie who doesn’t have a fare isn’t getting paid at all… yet is still on the hook for renting the cab.

Are we seriously arguing that the people that babysit 30 stupid kids all day aren’t paid enough and using cabbies as a baseline? Oh and they try to teach them algebra too. No wonder this country is fucked. Teachers should be making more than doctors.

40 * 5 * 8 = 1600 hours a year per kid.

Weeks * Days * hours

1600 * 30 = 48000

1600 hours times 30 kids.

That actually works nicely. 48K is a good average for a teacher.

So the teacher is making a buck a hour for watching and teaching your dumb kids. And I am lowballing the shit out of these numbers.