What are your thoughts on the transgender bathroom rights bill that was passed by California lawmakers in 2013?

I think those concerns are beyond moronic and anyone who seriously thinks that is just advertising “hey, look how utterly ignorant I am on the subject!”.

I just went into a public women’s bathroom and a man was in a stall helping a woman.

I can’t get too worked up about different genders or transgender in a bathroom. Single bathrooms it definitely makes zero difference to me. Multi-stall I can understand some apprehension about transvestites in certain situations, but transgender not so much.

As far as sports, I do think there is some grey area regarding hormone levels and how that affects strength, but I’m not sure there is a completely fair way to resolve it. Not just transgender, but also people who have no gender problems* have challenges within their own gender if they are short, tall, lower testosterone, etc etc. Depends in the sport what is ideal. In some ways I don’t like the word transgender, except maybe when the person is transitioning. Once they feel “done” and the other sex, they just are the other sex. It’s like when someone converts religions; once converted that’s what they are.

*I hate using the word problem, I couldn’t come up with a good alternative quickly.

@Dutchess_III Your question What are some alternatives that don’t favor one group of people over another, and one that everyone could live with? is phrased oddly in that it is not a matter of “favoring one group of people” but rather an issue of recognizing one’s right to self identification.

A boy who decides he is going to go peek in the girls’ room is not going to go through the extreme of self identifying as a girl for a day. This would not be some choice to make at morning break only to change one’s mind before lunch.

Such decisions and realizations that a trans person makes are arduous and not lightly made. It is in keeping with the spirit of such decisions that the support for trans children has been recognized by the State of California.

I believe I have none

I think distinguishing the gender of bathrooms is rapidly becoming less relevant. If you think about it, a bathroom with stalls and urinals (the basic men’s room) can work just fine for any gender definition, and I’ve grown accustomed to standing in front of a urinal to experience some lady rushing in and past me to get to a stall at events where the line to the ladies’ room is lengthy.

If you’re a bigot, you’ll jump on any excuse to exercise your ignorance and bigotry. This is only an issue because a politician wants something to talk about.

@zenvelo Another way to ask the question: Why do transgender people want to use the boys room or the girls room, depending on who they identify with? What does it matter?

@Dutchess_III Trans people want to use the bathroom assigned to the gender they identify with, as much as you want to use the ladies room. Why is that controversial? Should we tell you that you may only use the men’s room?

No, why would they rather use the the women’s room, rather than the men’s room? Do they feel uncomfortable using the men’s room?

I asked this question as carefully as possible, hoping to spark an old fashioned, intelligent, reasonable debate, not to spark a rock and shit throwing mob, OK, Jellies?

@zenvelo‘s point is valid. @Dutchess_III, I’m sure that you would rather use the women’s room, correct? If so then why?

We all know that every answer is “Because someone feels uncomfortable.” Well, the laws in California are being changed to accommodate people who feel uncomfortable about using the bathroom that is assigned to their physical gender. That’s fine…but I see a problem with the discomfort of others, women and girls, for example, who now have to deal with men and boys walking in on them. Why isn’t their discomfort given the same consideration, whatever the basis for the discomfort?

Why can’t there be a solution where no one has to feel uncomfortable?

To answer your question literally, @Darth_Algar, at my age, I could care less about using a stall in a bathroom full of men, as long as they know in advance that a woman could walk in on them.

@stanleybmanly I think the opposite. If all bathrooms were set up like women’s rooms there would be no problem. No one peeing out in the open. Maybe it should be urinals in one area, either a separate bathroom, or behind a wall in a mega bathroom, and stalls for either/any sex in the other area or bathroom. There could be a sitting area at another end for women who prefer to breastfeed in a more private place and for baby changing or just waiting. The space could be allotted better probably if it’s one large space, multi-gender.

This is the logical consequence of “politically correct” and letting 2% of the population rule the 98%.

@si3tech It isn’t “politically correct”; it is a matter of respect.

And @Dutchess_III It isn’t men and boys walking in on them; it is girls getting to use the girl’s room despite having been born physically as boys.

A better solution would have been to get rid of all bathrooms, and have 10 or so single user bathrooms.
The cost would have been enormous, but a lot of the nonsense would be avoided.

I think it’s the old “powder room” thing about ladies rooms that prevents the unisex bathroom solution.

@stanleybmanly, no, it’s more the fact that we’re half naked when we’re using the restroom, and aware of it, even if we’re in a stall.

OK, so how would this “solution” stop bullying?

@Dutchess_III

Those women are dealing with men and boys now walking in on them. It’s women and girls using the girls restroom, even is their physical sex doesn’t align with their gender. And it’s small matter anyway. Unless you’re peeping over the stall doors you’re not going to be aware of what genitalia a person has (and if you’re doing that then you’re more of a concern than any transgendered person using the girls restroom when they still have a boy’s equipment).

I think your literal answer to the question is interesting. What’s good for the goose is not good for the gander, evidently.

Interesting how only one woman has answered (besides me) and she offered rational solutions.

The rest of you are men, and most of you are just so adamant that you would be perfectly fine with it. Interesting.

But, again, how would this “solution” stop bullying?

I don’t want to see men standing at a urinal. If everyone is in a stall, it doesn’t matter much to me. I don’t expect there’d be people looking over the partitions at me. If so, then the cops will be called.

@Dutchess_III It cuts down (it doesn’t completely stop) bullying because there is quite a bit of school bullying in bathrooms. That tends to be out of site of teachers or monitors or playground supervisors, and for as long as I can remember, school bathrooms have always been a problem.

How about having bathrooms designated as “U” or “T”, or “Urinal” or “Toilet”. “Stand” or “Sit”. I’m sure there are other clever names.
The Urinal room would have 5 Urinals for every Toilet. The Toilet room would have 5 Toilets for every Urinal.
Only the Toilet room would have the mood music and fresh cut flowers. :-)

@LuckyGuy: Don’t forget the chaise lounge.

There is the problem that women have their pants down and are vulnerable. That’s a real thing to consider I think in some bathrooms in some locations.

Unisex. It’s time.

I still don’t see how it would even “cut down” on bullying, @zenvelo. They’d still be in a bathroom, which is a bad place to be with a bully, whoever they are.

When I consider this, I think more about the kids, especially the girls, who are hitting puberty. I don’t know what it’s like for a boy, but as a girl I was so confused and so freaking embarrassed by everything about it. I liked boys, but at the same time I was a bit horrified at the stories I heard. I could hardly say the word “bra,” or “tampex” without wishing the floor would open up and swallow me.
I think about my 12 year old grand daughter, who is riding that confusing wave as we speak, and I wonder how she’d feel to have a person with a penis walk in when she’s using the bathroom.

When you are talking about hormone super charged teens in school, it is NOT the time for unisex.

@filmfann I agree.

I agree too.

GQ @Dutchess_III.

It boils down to a cultural change. Humanity has gone through this before. The most effective way to tackle it is to expose the younger generation with facts versus fallacy. The responsibility should fall on the parent/guardian’s shoulders, but as we all know, this doesn’t always happen.

This question is about allowing civil rights for US children in K-12 public schools, not adults. If we look at what has been successful in the past when it comes to mindset change in youth, it starts with social media. It is also impacted by peer pressure. What US child doesn’t reach their teenage years and at some point think that they don’t know more than their parents do?

To me, the question is should we ease today’s youth into gender equality (civil rights) through education and awareness or make it a law? It harps back to the differing opinions of Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm X, albeit it not in the same context or delivery.

I vote for easing people into this change. The ability to convince adult advocates against this change is minimal. The burden falls on the shoulders of those who recognize gender diversity as more than two sexes, who provide facts, and who create valid resources that back up these facts that are available to children.

@Dutchess_III *“When I consider this, I think more about the kids, especially the girls, who are hitting puberty. I don’t know what it’s like for a boy, but as a girl I was so confused and so freaking embarrassed by everything about it. I liked boys, but at the same time I was a bit horrified at the stories I heard. I could hardly say the word “bra,” or “tampex” without wishing the floor would open up and swallow me.
I think about my 12 year old grand daughter, who is riding that confusing wave as we speak, and I wonder how she’d feel to have a person with a penis walk in when she’s using the bathroom.”*

They’re not walking in swinging their penis around. We’re talking about transgendered kids here. They might have male genitals, but if their gender is female they’re going to be going in and using closed stalls just like every other girls in the bathroom. Again, you’re not going to know that their genitalia is different unless you’re peering over the stall door at them.

What are we juvenile imbeciles here? Last time I went to a public event there was a line at the woman’s bathroom, none at the men’s. I stuck my head in the men’s room, it was empty. So I told the women to use the men’s room and I’d watch the door. Problem solved in 5 or 6 minutes. Why can’t we be adults? We’re not walking around naked in a locker room.

Public restrooms are headed toward multiple, single user rooms, that are plumbed for elimination regardless of your sexuality. Retrofit is the challenge.

Goodwill is ahead of the curve, including 2 restrooms that are not gender specific in the newest stores.
I found it odd that our brand new Salvation Army has 3 restrooms, the third being “family”. I glanced in and it didn’t appear cavernous. I don’t get any hits online when I search about a “Family” restroom at Salvation Army stores. I wonder if it’s the handicapped access, as the door was obviously large.

At the mall, they have some “family” stalls, which are like rooms with regular doors. They’re probably 8 feet by 8 feet, and have a big toilet, child size toilet and sink. I like using them because it’s like our own little bathroom.

I agree with @Adirondackwannabe that is the sensible solution. I have participated in that very solution myself.

I’ve used the men’s room on multiple occasions (only when there’s nobody in there).

I think the “family” restrooms are basically just intended to be gender-neutral but with a little extra space added for handicapped persons. I can see how they might also be of benefit for a a parent who’s child is old enough to toilet themselves, but not old enough where the parent feels comfortable letting them enter a restroom full of strangers on their own. With this family restroom a single father doesn’t have the uncomfortable situation of having to enter the women’s room so his little daughter can use the restroom or, say, of bringing her into the men’s room. Things like that. Now that I think about it I’m surprised the “family” restroom wasn’t really a thing years sooner. Most I’ve seen are larger, but only have one stall, so a parent could enter the restroom with their child but can stay at one end of the room and give their child private space.

My initial thought is a solution looking for a problem.

@Dutchess

Your concern for a child of 12 yrs. old is understandable. Let me try to answer it with an example.

We all know what Bruce Jenner looked like before his transition. So, at that point in time, regardless of the ponytail, he was using the Mens room, appropriately so. Of course a 12 yr. old girl would be uncomfortable with someone looking like that coming into the Womens room.

However, he is now Caitlyn Jenner. I presume you’ve seen photos of her. Do you think a 12 yr. old girl would be uncomfortable for someone who looks like Cait Jenner coming into a Womens restroom? Of course not because she looks like a woman. The 12 yr. old would have absolutely no way to know that this person who looks like a woman actually has penis and testicles. How could she? (unless she were to look up her dress, an unlikely scenario).

It’s a Womens room. There is no urinal so no penis will be showing. So, how can that possibly make the 12 yr. old uncomfortable ?

Please do a Google image search for Jazz Jennings. She is a 14 yr. old transgender girl. Do you honestly think that her appearance in a Womens room would even raise an eye brow? This is what 12 yr. old girls are going to see in their school bathrooms. So, how is that a problem.

However, please answer me this. With 14 yr. old Jazz obviously looking every bit like a female,should she be forced to use the Mens room simply because she still has a penis and testicles?

You tell me which one is the most likely to result in bullying and/or outright violence.

Does that sufficiently answer your Q about why a transgender person wants to use the bathroom which matches the gender they identify as and look like RATHER THAN what genitalia they were born with.

BTW: One salient fact for the record; BOTH Caitlyn Jenner and Jazz Jennings still have the penis and testicles with which they were born. They certainly don’t look like they do. But they do.

So, aren’t they going to look way more out of place in a Mens room, considering how they look and dress now?

I hope that answers your concern about how this affects 12 yr. old girls, or girls of ANY age.

And guess what

Too late to edit.

Ignore the last three words.

It’s funny that after all this talk of being who we are, it comes down to stereotype anyway! A stereotype of how women dress vs how men dress.

Oh and we never did answer the question of how this move will stop bullying. I’m still scratching my head over that one.

@Dutchess_III Watch the movie “Boys Don’t Cry”. It might educate you a bit about transgender bullying.

Do you truly not understand how a transgender girl entering a boys bathroom in middle school might be harmed by adolescent boys? Truly??

@janbb, You completely missed my point. A transgendered boy entering a boy’s bathroom in middle school stands a good chance of being harmed too.
A transgendered girl entering a girl’s bathroom stands a chance of being bullied or harmed, too.
Changing which bathroom they use isn’t going to stop the bullying.

I think you may have missed the point too which is that transgendered kids are identifying the bathroom that they feel the most comfortable in and thus should be allowed to use it.

Clearly, as had been said above, we are in the midst of a societal change toward more gender fluidity and it is not always comfortable. As I have said on here many times, I don’t consider my discomfort to be a valid reason to deny anyone their right to self-identity or equal consideration.

Nope. I understand that. However, some people seem to think that letting them use the bathroom that they want would stop bullying. I’m simply trying to figure out how.

@Dutchess_III As I said before, bullying won’t go away, but it will be cut back, because a trans girl won’t be forced to go into a boys room and risk being beaten up out of the eye of an adult.

And your failure to see how it would reduce bullying is not a sufficient reason to not let the trans kid feel comfortable going to the bathroom.

@Dutchess_III

It seems like you often refuse to see the point when it runs contrary to your claims. Nobody is saying this will stop bullying. You’re never going to completely stop bullying. But a transgendered girl going into the restroom with a bunch of adolescent/teenaged boys will most certainly be subject to mental, emotional and most likely physical harassment.

A transgendered girl going into the girl’s bathroom will be just another girl using the girl’s restroom. Sure, there’s a possibility she might get bullied in the girl’s room. But unless these other girls are peering over the stall or holding her down and stripping her or something, they’re not going to know what genitalia she has.

I wasn’t looking for a reason to not let the kid feel comfortable. Just because I really don’t see how it would stop bullying doesn’t mean I’m against the idea. My point is, bullies are bullies. They aren’t real picky about their targets.

Of course a transgendered girl going into the restroom with a bunch of adolescent teenage boys is dangerous. But it’s also dangerous for a transgendered boy to go into the restroom with a bunch of adolescent boys.

@Darth_Algar There aren’t too many secrets in school. The kids, and the parents, would have to go to giant lengths to hide it, for years and years, if they wanted to. Even a suspicion would be enough to get a kid bullied.

There are already unisex bathrooms. This is a non-issue. Slow news day.

I was trying to make the same argument, @Blackberry. Fewer multi-stall sex specific bathrooms, and more unisex, single user bathrooms.

It’s not a huge investment over the current public bathroom norm, IMO.

Single bathrooms do take more space than multi-stall. The main reason I think is the sinks. Moreover, I assume stalls are cheaper than walls and full doors. Some bathrooms use doors on “stalls” and it feels like very much a private space, but then sinks are still among the many. I’d love a trend towards individual bathrooms; I use the family bathrooms sometimes.

The ridiculous thing to me is to mark bathrooms men and women when they are individual bathrooms, but I guess they probably do it so men know there is a urinal in one of them. Although, sometimes there isn’t a urinal.

@Blackberry and @ibstubro ~ This question isn’t about public restrooms. This is about bathrooms in the schools, K-12.

@JLeslie I had that same complaint and asked a question about it here a couple of years ago. However, over the last 6 months I’ve noticed that all of the public individual bathrooms have changed over to “Whoever.” I’m glad. I used too feel a twinge of “guilt” and “embarrassment” for going ahead and using the men’s room when the women’s was full.
The other good thing is that they are equally clean now.
However, you can still tell which used to the the men’s and which used to be the women’s restroom by the diaper changing station.

@Dutchess_III

Huh? Most men’s rooms have had diaper changing stations in them for a couple of decades now (once people started to realize that, yes, there are fathers who do take part in caring for the child).

Not here. It’s one of my son’s biggest complaints.

Ashton Kutcher is pushing for all public restrooms to have diaper changing stations. Sign the petition on Change.org and read the article here:
http://celebritybabies.people.com/2015/03/16/ashton-kutcher-restrooms-changing-stations-petition/

That’s odd. Where do you live? I ask because I’ve seem them pretty much everywhere I’ve gone.

(Granted, I’ve not been all over the country, but southeast Tennessee to northern Illinois, to eastern Ohio to Missouri is still a fairly wide range.)

Oh, I’m sure it will change. Besides, most of the bathrooms are no longer gender designated.

I agree with @filmfann.