What would the situation in the Middle East be today if there was no Israel?

” What would the situation in Europe be if Britain had given Italy to the Jews? Would all the other European states hate them as much as the Arabs do now?”

Probably. Beyond the antisemitism that had been rampant in Europe for centuries, generally speaking people don’t much like it when you take their land and give it to someone else.

Once the British left, the neighboring Arab countries would have invaded the area, not as allies, but as competitors for the land, the coast and the port. The Palestinians would have been conquered, not displaced.

Without Isreal as a “common enemy” the various tribes and sects of the Middle East would have turned on one another.

The US would still have an interest in containing Iran. The Persians have a completely different sense of destiny than any of the Arab countries. Plus they want the oil.
On the other hand, Iran might have been our designated hitter. Or Egypt.
Iran would be, and will probably be, the regional SuperPower.

Bonus.
AntiSemitism has been rampant in Europe for (at least)a thousand years. If the Jews had been “given” Italy (hard to see how that would have happened, but I will play along) it would not have improved, and perhaps been exacerbated.

It’s fruitless to speculate on the situation in Palestine minus the clumsy maneuvering of European powers and the fervor behind Zionist aspirations. When I become king I will mandate that no student be allowed a high school diploma minus a course on the history of the Jews and another on the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire. There are so many ironies involved with the creation and ongoing story of Israel that a new “bible” should be designed as a textbook on the ubiquity of unforeseen consequences.

Impossible to answer, because there are so many variables, and so many things in the last 70 years that would likely have been different if there were no Israel.

You have to go back as far as Balfour, at a minimum, whose declaration was the conceptual OK for a Jewish state. Or maybe earlier than that. And you have to take into account WW1 and WW2, each of which was an antecedent to Israel being created. Do we assume (for the purposes of your questions) that neither world war took place?

In the end, this question has too many moving parts and historical dependencies. It’s really impossible to answer.

Not much of a difference, probably. They have been quarreling with each other for 1400 years, much longer than there has been an Israel.

@Darth_Algar True, Do you think they would all be ganging up on the Israeli state? Would it not be fitting to give the homeland of the Romans to the Jews?
@josie Thanks, There is certainly no love lost between the Arabs and Palestinians. Would an actual Palestinian state have arisen? It doesn’t seem to have beforehand.
Iran and not Iraq as the superpower? What about Saudi Arabia? They have been a major recipient of US foreign aid. Would they not have been so were there no Israel? Are they not armed enough to be a superpower in the region?
My thoughts on giving Italy to the Jews were along the lines of the original British protectorate of Palestine being a spoil of war taken from the Ottomans and Italy being taken from the Italians (different wars I know but spoils are spoils) and how it would have been poetic justice to give the Jews the homeland of their Roman oppressors (then again, I guess it could just as well have been Egypt). but there you go.

@stanleybmanly maybe fruitless but not without some entertainment value. Just go with the flow, don’t look for deeper meanings.
@elbanditoroso Sure, variables beyond counting but why not try to give a few wings and see what you come up with. Sure, WWI & WWII were instrumental in the creation of the Jewish state, If WWII had not taken place would there have even been a call for a Jewish homeland?
But that is what I am asking what if there had never been an Israel?
There is no wrong answer.
@kritiper I had thoughts along the same lines. The US would be still be involved because of the oil but how would it differ if we did not have Israel to defend?

@rojo

How would it have been fitting or “poetic justice” to punish modern people over the actions of people who lived 2,000 years ago? If your long dead ancestor somehow wronged my long dead ancestor would it be just for me to seek retribution from you over it?

^^ Dude, you are reading way too much into this. It is more fitting than giving them Rhode Island. ^^ This is speculative whimsy. Please don’t read more into it.

Oh, my bad. I thought this was meant to be a half-assed thoughtful discussion, not mere “whimsy”.

Your “discussion” seems more like it is put out there looking for an argument rather than any meaningful dialog.

If I am mistaken then my apologies.

@rojo We are a member of the UN and that would involve us, oil or no oil.

@rojo

Did you expect a thread about current ongoing, often heated, events to not generate some counter questions? It’s actually sounding like you’re the one not interested in any meaningful dialog (especially when you try to dismiss such questions by saying your post is only “whimsy” (ie: lighthearted playfulness), and accuse the other person of “reading too much into it”).

@rojo

Let me put it this way – I was wondering if there was a specific reasoning behind the thought that it would have been poetic justice to give Italy to the Jews. I mean considering that there’s a pretty rampant belief that the Levant belongs to the Jews because their ancestors lived there however many centuries ago (and disregarding the people who have lived, settled, worked, bled and died on that land more recently) it would not have surprised me.

Britain give Catholic Italy to the Jews, Vatican and all?

The Middle East would still be a mess but the creation of the state of Israel has led to great bitterness and confrontation between Muslims and the west. Sad to say but I believe the world would be a more peaceful place if Israel didn’t exist.