If we see something, are we no longer supposed to say something?
Asked by
josie (
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September 21st, 2015
The DIY version of counter terrorism for the last few years was “If you see something, say something”. This is pretty good advice if you want to cut down on such events as sociopaths shooting up schools or theatres, and Islamist killers murdering infidels.
Except when a kid brought a contraption to school that was a home made alarm clock, but looked nothing like a clock, a teacher saw something and said something.
Now, there is indignant outrage, a new hashtag slogan, and the kid gets invited to meet the President.
So much for “If you see something, say something”?
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36 Answers
There’s some place in between not saying something and taking a kid away in handcuffs, dontcha think? Or is your world so totally black and white that nuances escape you?
The problem I have with this “see something say something” was his engineering teacher who saw something and even said something but what he said was “better not show that to anyone else. So here you have a teacher, who even realized it was a suspicious looking device that could cause a ruckus, ....the ones who are tasked with leading the charge of this see something say something and he swept it under the carpet and because of a fluke thing like the alarm of the clock going off a shit storm ensued. Why hasn’t this teacher been fired for not doing what he should have done once he saw this “bomb hoax”?
I think that the issue is that :say something” is supposed to evoke an intelligent response. It didn’t in this case.
It makes me wonder if, if I reported something, we would be worse off or better off.
What @janbb said. Geez.
Would a brown kid in Texas named Luis Alvarez have been led away in handcuffs?
This site has devoted a couple of articles to this issue, pointing out how the reaction was a serious over reaction. I have never seen evidence of a specific political bent from this site, but I’m not a regular visitor
Say something, yes. Say “Gee, Ahmed, what’s that.” “It’s an alarm clock that I made.” “Wow. Can you explain to me how it works, please?”
They never thought it was a bomb.
As I saw in one article, if the teacher really thought it was a bomb, why didn’t she pull the fire alarm instead of calling the police?
Kid with Islamic name brings homemade clock to school. Must be a bomb. We have a new record in the world conclusion jumping event.
There are times when it makes sense to ’‘snitch”. The striking thing about this incident is that everyone in the chain of dealing with this kid apparently tripped over the hurdle of common sense. The engineering teacher might deserve a pass. But the allegation of the clock as bomb hoax simply shouldn’t be tolerated because the kid brought the thing FIRST to his engineering class. I still believe there must be things about this episode that we don’t know. I seriously doubt that someone will die in the future due to the reluctance on the part of some citizen to turn in a bomber because of this fiasco.
whatever happened to “Nobody likes a snitch.”?
Schools are currently places where extreme overreaction is practiced. My nephew recently faced suspension because a kid told his parents that he heard that my nephew may have said “penis” in the cafeteria. The amount of counsellors and professionals brought in on this case was ridiculous.
In this context, I’m very reluctant to buy the case many have made that this is some clear cut example of racism or anti-Muslim action. It’s quite possible that this whole thing is a result of these things. But in the context of fear and zero tolerance for drawings of guns, etc, I am withholding judgment. Fear is a great motivator to get reasonable people to act ridiculous.
Should teachers be on the lookout for suspicious activity and/or possible weapons? Sure. But keep calm about it. Possible suspect #1 will be a white male, and he probably won’t be bringing in his gun during class to show off his creation to his teacher.
I knew a woman who worked in a book store. She told me that one day a Muslim woman came in and wanted to order an Arabic-English dictionary. This woman at the book store then called the FBI and reported this woman as a suspected terrorist. I know this because she boasted about it non-stop, how she may have stopped a dangerous terrorist from blowing something up because of her eagle-eyed patriotic fervour.
This kind of hysterical irrationality is what is deliberately encouraged by asking people to report their neighbours to the secret police. The State and its billionaire overlords want you terrified and irrational. Frightened, irrational people are easy to control. And they don’t give a sweet fuck about the collateral damage.
There is a difference between quickly examining whether your fear is justified, and flying off the handle.
I had a 5 second look at the clock, and knew it wasn’t a bomb immediately.
@SmashTheState I’m sure it isn’t. And what about the kids who are expelled for pointing a finger at someone and the kindergartners who are expelled for hugging someone. We live in very repressive times where common sense has flown out the window.
The phrase ‘Zero Tolerance’ has become an idiom for ‘Check your common sense at the door’. The 7 year old kid that chewed his pop-tart into the shape of a gun, suspended from school. They all seem to fall back on the refuge of ‘Zero Tolerance’ to justify their stupidity. It’s little wonder so many are retreating to ‘Home Schooling’.
Oh, yeah, you should say something, but some people don’t like to get involved, some should and some shouldn’t! And some people (WAY TOO MANY!) have no common sense, want to get involved, and shouldn’t..
Some person called the cops on me one day when I was carrying a friend’s BB gun back to my house to be cleaned. I wasn’t brandishing it or acting peculiar, just walking down the street.
It would seem that good sense like ‘see something, say something’ and ‘loose lips sink ships’ have gone away in a world turned inside out. We have news outlets outlining our plans of operation so the enemy (as it were) knows what we are preparing to do, where we have the opposite problem with the incident like the kid with his suitcase ‘alarm clock’ that looks surprisingly like an IED. I am near to having a tattoo of Pi (the symbol dont know how to bring it up in ACII) on my wrist to remind me to keep my pie hole shut.
This whole thing was so badly mishandled, that it is farcical. I agree that the engineering teacher should have said something. He should have said, “I have examined this device, and it is a clock and an interesting science project, so I want to make sure everyone else recognizes that it is safe.” We know from his comment to the student that he realized his fellow teachers are clueless on this front. He screwed up.
However, whoever called the police screwed up far worse. If they really thought it could be a bomb, their responsibility was to evacuate the school. So we know they didn’t think that at all. If they thought the kid should be taught not to bring things that might look like bombs to people who don’t know anything about science, then they overreacted to a ridiculous degree. If they had the kid arrested solely to avoid a backlash from other kids’ parents, they are seriously lacking in compassion. That would be disgusting behaviour.
Horrible failure by the school all around.
If they really thought it was dangerous the would have evacuated the school. If the teacher was stupid enough to really “fear” the clock, obviously someone higher didn’t think it was anything scary, but still treated the child like a terrorist. That was plain wrong. If they actually believed it was dangerous the reaction would have been way different. This was just prejudice and abuse.
No, and the problem with the example given is a complete and total lack of common sense on the part of all involved.
Should the kid have known better? At 14, yes.
Should the school have done something? Yes, cuffed him along side the head and told him to wise up.
Should the police have been called? Fuck no. Deal with it yourselves school officials
Should the police have arrested the kid after being called? No, cuff the kid up alongside the head for stupidity and then do the same to the school officials who wasted their time.
You know, I think that @Jaxk and I probably come close to agreeing on this one and that is a scary proposition, someone slap me and get me back on track.
@rojo “Should the school have done something? Yes, cuffed him along side the head and told him to wise up.”
Yes, he should have known better than to try to impress Amerikans with science. He should have brought a hand-carved crucifix painted with the stars and stripes affixed to a giant, deep-fried snickerdoodle cake in the shape of the World Trade Centre with a crying eagle superimposed over it.
There is some question as to whether it was science or whether it was just taking a bunch of ready made crap and putting it together in a different box. Regardless, he should have known it was potentially troubling, particularly after being warned by another teacher.
BTW that teacher did the right thing, encouraged him and told him to cover his ass because it could be misconstrued.
Yes, he should have known his place. Getting all uppity will get you lynched. Shine Great White Father’s shoes, do his laundry, pick his cotton. Don’t go getting yourself in trouble by rocking the boat. Don’t upset the applecart. The proud nail gets hammered. Stay small, keep your head down, nod and smile. Don’t do anything which might make a fat, white, stupid, ignorant, violent, aggressive, oppressive, regressive, suppressive, trigger-happy police officer nervous, since he could put 41 bullets in you and be completely exonerated for doing so.
Excellent advice.
Did you not bother to read the entire thing? Too much to ask perhaps? Or are you just to goddam lazy? He did a stupid thing. He is a kid, that is what kids do. I did not think the police should have been called and since they were they should have chastised both parties. Arrest should not have even been in their mind.
Maybe time to come down off your high horse.
Yes, he was so stupid to make electronics while Muslim. He should have known better. How stupid of him. Making electronics while Muslim is almost as serious a criminal offence as reaching for a wallet while black.
Being Muslim did not make what he did stupid. Being young did. What are you saying now, that Muslims should be given more leeway when it comes to being stupid? Yes, regardless of his religion he should have know better.
It’s stupid to make electronics. Only in ‘Merka, folks. Only in ‘Merka.
I made a breadboard clock for my electronics class in highschool, as homework. So did everyone else. The whole class was walking around with exactly the same thing this kid was. No one called the cops, no one was arrested. Why? Because we were white, because this was before 9/11 turned people into fucking morons, and because we didn’t live in the Lard-Fried States of ‘Merka.
Yes, tell me again how free you are living in America and how repressive my government is here in Socialist Nation.
My son took home a drawing last week which he proudly showed me. He drew two guns. No problem. No note home. No suspension.
Pretty broad brush you are painting with there @SmashTheState. Most of the time you and I are on the same page when it comes to the actions of government institution, in fact I think we are on this one; what the government did was wrong. Where we differ is that you seem to be unwilling to admit that little Ahmed had any responsibility at all for what lead up the the government madness.
@cazzie Y’all still got any room left up there? And if so, do I have to promise not to say y’all anymore?
@rojo Depends on what sort of job you can do and how quickly you can start speaking the language like a native.
Well, semi-retired. Is that a job eh? Don’t wanna be a gorbie, I could maybe do a joe job for a Loonie or two. Pretty sure I can convert all my old Aggie jokes to Newfie ones and I look good in a tuque eh?
@rojo I think you have me confused with a Canadian…... But I’m way over on the other side of the Atlantic and north, so they speak a very rarefied type of Danish called Bokmål Norsk.
Meg dårlig, var for noe grunn jeg trodde du kanadiske. Vel, jeg er fortsatt interessert, fortsatt semi-pensjonerte men språket vil være mer problematisk med mindre vi kan finne en av Douglas Adams Babelfish sted
My Bad?.... is that what you start with? computers are great for translating, but what counts is what comes out of your mouth.
Yes, my bad. I thought, for some reason or another, that you were in Canada although I thought you were not from there originally.
And, as I tried to say, speaking the language could be a problem. I have been unsuccessful at learning other languages and even English sometimes gives me fits.
Norway is a great place in some ways, but if you weren’t born here, you get treated like a second class citizen.
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