What do cities with billions of liters of raw sewage do with it instead of dumping it in the river?

Fertilizer on crops. We can export it to Asian farmers and turn a negative into a positive. Edit if every city did dumping then the water would become undrinkable and be contaminated.

There are huge fines when traces of sewage are found in the rivers.

@talljasperman Why export it?

@jca Yes, major fines. This is why the outrage.

But my question is what do the cities that find dumping it in the river completely unthinkable have been doing other than the ones in Asia.

Some places have huge underground storage for overflow storm water. They can process the water through the normal treatment plants over time after the rain stops.

When I say huge, I mean HUGE. Check out this photo – that is full-sized construction equipment in the quarry that forms part of Chicago’s Deep Tunnel.

And here’s an article on Tokyo’s Metropolitan Area Outer Underground Discharge Channel.

@flo We already use fertilizer in Canada. If we have need then we can sell it to local farmers.

@jaytkay So they would not need to do such a thing as dump it in the river because they have a back up system in case of emergency?

There are sewage treatment plants and wastewater treatment plants that process the sewage, remove solids and then send the stuff elsewhere.

@flo Correct, they can send the water into the giant underground storage instead of into the river.

Then they can slowly send it to the sewage processing plant over time and release cleaned water into the river.

It’s a big buffer for the times when rain falls faster than they can clean it up.

@jaytkay is correct in how most if not all municipalities are equipped to deal with treating sewage. Problems arise when sewage systems become antiquated, in need or repair or overwhelmed by rainstorms where storm water infiltration overwhelms the capacity of sewage treatment facilities. It is an ugly and smelly reality many of us who live in urban/suburban areas have to live with. Here in Chicago and out where I live, are well accustomed to the frequent beach closings and know where it is safe or marginal to swim because of the proximity to treatment plants. The solution is to pay higher taxes so municipalities can repair and or upgrade their treatment plants or move to where an outhouse is permitted.

If you read the article and related articles, you’ll see that it’s only been six years since Montreal routinely dumped sewage into the river.

This dump is part of a massive construction project, it’s a one time thing, and it affects the US only inasmuch as does all oceanic pollution. I think it lessens the likelihood of future sewage dumps by Montreal.

I’d like to hear New York state senator Patty Ritchie explain why the Poop Train no longer runs.

I hope you listen, @flo. It answers your question better than I can, and it’s a fascinating story.

@jaytkay ”..they can send the water into the giant underground storage instead of into the river.” You mean the raw sewage I’m sure.
@Cruiser But It is an ugly and smelly reality many of us who live in urban/suburban areas have to live with” But not according to the experts who say no we don’t, there are alternatives.

@ibstubro Just because the last time a city dumped it in the river was not long ago by the way 2007 means nothing it to make it okay.
Your link is not leading there by the way.

@flo…yes there are indeed alternatives and they are very expensive. Most municipalities today are struggling with less tax revenue and are having to cut expenses and services and can ill afford to spend more let alone tell their citizens they will have to pay double or triple or even more on their sewer and water bill for these alternatives. The actual release of raw sewage into waterways directly affects so few people that the rest couldn’t care less about it as long as they don’t have to pay more for flushing the toilet.

A huge first step would be to educate people about water conservation and how to go about your daily life using and flushing less water. SUPER SIMPLE to do but does create an inconvenience…at first. Then you get used to shorter showers, flushing less, only loading and running a full dishwasher and full loads of laundry etc. If we all did these simple little things there would be a whole lot stress on our waste water treatment facilities.

@jaytkay I can’t get over how newscasters and newspapers etc. don’t make a point of using the term raw sewage. They say untreated water or used water . It subconsciously creeps into all our brains.

@Cruiser Yes we should be conscious of what we’re doing and change, but the way worse things are the things originating from industry etc, as you stated in another OP.

@Cruiser It may be expensive at first, but it is even way more expensive if the environment is irreparably damaged, they say.

I know the fact that Montreal dumped sewage fairly recently doesn’t make it all right now, @flo. I’m just saying that it is a one time thing this time, the effects should be fairly well known, and it appears that this dump would make sewage spill even less likely in the future.

Sorry about the Poop Train link. I still hope you use the link. Interesting, amazing, and sad.

@flo RE: ” I can’t get over how newscasters and newspapers etc. don’t make a point of using the term raw sewage. They say untreated water or used water .”

The problems are closely related. You may have sewage released BECAUSE rainwater is overwhelming the treatment plants.

Many areas have combined sewer. – surface water and sewage go through the same process before release into rivers/lakes/oceans.

So a huge rain storm exceeds the treatment plants’ capacity, and combined surface/sewer water gets released untreated.

Our city here has a process treatment plant that turns it into fertiliser. We also have a regional plant that takes household organic waste and turns it into fertiliser.

Sewage can be defined as ”waste matter from domestic or industrial establishments that is carried away in sewers or drains for dumping or conversion into a form that is not toxic”.
Stormwater is potentially polluted stormwater that a municipality may be permitted to discharge untreated.

Most of the cases you hear of is when one of these systems blend for some reason and diluted, yet untreated, sewage is released in the environment.

Poop Train #3.
Tested and working ATT.

Thank you everyone so much.

@ibstubro and @jaytkay I found your links useful,.

@ibstubro The thing is the pro dumping and against dumping side, it is safer to everyone to use “raw sewage” just to be make it less time waster. Because the anti-dumping side is saying that the city or the pro-dumping side columnists are even trying to hide how bad it is by not using the right term… etc. Then the city and the columnist has to respond to that and on and on.

This might interest at least some of you.
http://enr.construction.com/infrastructure/water_dams/2012/extras/0328/slideshow.asp?slide=3

The thing is the pro dumping and against dumping side, it is safer to everyone to use “raw sewage” just to be make it less time waster. Because the anti-dumping side is saying that the city or the pro-dumping side columnists are even trying to hide how bad it is by not using the right term… etc.

…oops Ignore the last paragraph (repeat)

This might interest at least some of you.

I’ve pooped in 3 of the top 10 wastewater treatment plants.

I will update my resume!

@jaytkay I did the same thing myself http://www.fluther.com/184429/what-are-the-best-water-treatment-plants-in-the-world/ I was thinking sewage treatment plants

I’m not grasping the difference. Sewage is a kind of wastewater. The “wastewater” plants in the link treat sewage.

@jaytkay I see @Cruiser‘s post in that thread, “yet there is now technology to do both.” So, it is a unique/new way of doing things? My guess is in the conventional way there is treating the raw sewage and then there is treating that to make it potable?

@jaytkay Sewage is the discharge from toilets, bathroom sinks, washing machines that is collected in sewer systems in a municipality….waste water is very similar but usually originates in slop sinks, processing machinery discharge, floor drains that collect liquid discharge from homes and businesses that also is collected in sewer systems in a municipality. All this flows into waste water treatment plants to be treated and dumped back into the river in your town.

@Cruiser And what is discharged by industry and hospitals, for example?

@flo Pretty much into the same system. Certain industries are required to pre-treat their waste like coal plants and auto manufacturers that I know of….not sure what rules apply to hospital waste/

Factory farms are getting to be a larger problem than cities.

Example quote:
“The more than 1 million hogs on factory farms in Sioux County, Iowa produce as much untreated manure as the sewage from the Los Angeles and Atlanta metro areas combined.”

China now owns 1 in 4 pigs raised in the U.S. making it potentially one of the worst polluters in the nation.

The US can raise hell, and the Chinese can move ¼ of the pork production in the US to 3rd world countries that are so eager for the revenue they’ll clear virgin lands to install hog factories. For the US, lose, lose.

The US should have regulated animal enclosures years decades ago.

I have worked in food production and some systems must be installed depending on the effluent. If there are no mandated standards the industries will pollute to their hearts content and not build anything to save the local environment. They don’t care.

There’s a little stagnant canal called Bubbly Creek where the Chicago meat packers used to dump their waste.

The packing plants closed more than 40 years ago.

It’s still bubbling methane from the rotting carcasses.

Hey, there is such thing as wastewater treatment plants in many cities of the world. These plants treat raw sewage. The byproduct – fertilisers.