European Jellies: what is being said behind closed doors about the Syrians that are flooding in?

There are a lot of germans that think that they are all terrorists, rapists, criminals, or “economic migrants” that are not actually refugees but just come here to be parasites.
And then those germans turn around and start torching and flooding planned refugee buildings.
70 years is all it takes for some to turn brown again.
I think this country needs another good carpet bombing.
And no, they are not working, because as a foreigner you need a work permit, which refugees will not get.

@ragingloli They aren’t given work permits? What’s the plan? To just shelter them temporarily and then send them back?

Of the millions of refugees the UK will take in 20,000. Feelings are divided, while there is great sympathy for individual refugees many people are against taking in large numbers though 20,000 is hardly a lot. We are concentrating on the neediest. The vulnerable person relocation scheme is designed to give priority to those who are victims of sexual violence or torture or are too elderly or disabled to live in the camps.

They will not immediately be granted full asylum status, giving them a right to settle, but instead a humanitarian status that will allow them to apply for asylum at the end of five years. I think we feel we must do something to help, little though it is.

@JLeslie the plan is to have EU countries fighting and passing the buck until Europe is eventually shattered into pieces. The refugee crisis is the final explosion to an already burning plane which is going down rapidly!

@ZEPHYRA Passing the buck to who? Is your answer a serious answer or sarcastic. I have no idea what you are talking about.

@flutherother 5 years?! Is that 5 years until they can work?

One European country is putting the load of taking on the majority of refugees onto the other.

Bunch of NIMBYs, all. And I’m thoroughly disappointed that the US has barely agreed to take 10,000’. We have an enormous amount of land and we’re responsible for a good portion of the unrest in that part of the world. The LEAST we could do is take in some of the innocents we’ve displaced.

@Seek I wish the US was taking in more also.

I wish I knew.

There is a lot of discussion, that’s for sure. The consumers of tabloids are lapping up idiotic articles on how we are importing terrorists, and the PEGIDA is still going strong. I get chills when I hear of the numbers they’ve been able to get on the streets, even though the counter-demonstrations continue to be extremely strong.

I pay close attention to the streets, and I’m happy to see phrases like “refugees welcome” take over the walls and streetlights. I live a 10 minute-walk from a refugee centre, so it’s not like I’m in an area that has not been affected. I am, however, far away from Dresden. @ragingloli is probably not that lucky.

It’s true, @JLeslie, that there is quite a lot of support for the refugees. Many donations and spontaneous volunteers. Again, that’s true for my area. There have not been any attacks on the local centres, that I know of.

The refugees I’ve met are extremely outgoing. I see them while walking the dogs, and many approach me. Some just want to chat, they tell me where they’re from and how they like Germany so far. Many want to have their children pet the dogs, and even more just say hello and smile. Some speak no English at all, others are quite fluent. Some are well-dressed and seem happy, others look extremely poor. Rather often, I seem to see families with very bouncy kids and exhausted parents.

I know that the Syrian medical system was one of the best in the world, until the country collapsed. Syrian doctors are not allowed to work here, however, unless they pass certain tests. That takes time, and the language barrier needs to be taken into account as well. Germany is by no means an English-speaking country.

@longgone I never heard of PEGIDA. I always had this stereotype that much of Western Europe are similar to US states like Minnesota and Iowa. Idealists when it came to how immigration works and the mixing of cultures. Those places are so “white” that they are let’s say, naive, about some of the change and impact that happens. At the same time the people are rather blind to race, religion, ethnic differences, which is refreshing when discussing the topic. From what I understand parts of Minnesota in the last 15 years have attracted minority workers, and more recently there is some negative rumble about it. It’s easy to be idealistic when one doesn’t have to deal with it.

Is your impression that the Syrians are very religious or clannish? Do you perceive them as not wanting to assimilate? I don’t have that assumption about Syrians, but I know very little about their culture.

@JLeslie Refugees in the UK can work and get state benefits while awaiting full asylum status.

@flutherother That makes sense to me.

@JLeslie 8% of the population are classed as “foreigners”, an additional 12% have at least one parent who is not German. I don’t know whether that is as “white” as Minnesota or Iowa?

I don’t assume the Syrians won’t want to assimilate. Some, sure. They’ve lost their homes and been through trauma, many are worrying about family back in Syria, they have no idea whether they’ll be accepted around here, and they’re trying to make sense of the system and customs in a language that is not theirs. I would be biting off heads, for sure.

@longgone Minnesota (MN) is 85% white, but just 10 years ago it was over 90%, and the minority population continues to grow fast. Iowa I would guess is still over 90% white. Both states a large portion of the whites are German decent, probably 40–50% and then add on some of the Nordic countries, and most likely some Irish I would guess being the part of the country that it is. I think of MN as being full of very tall fair haired people LOL. The people are Americanized after generations, but the old country still has some influence. You’ll be happy to know there is an expression that goes, “Minnesota nice” to describe the people the people in that state. The majority of the people who live in those states were also born in those states.

My experience with the Arabs I know from the Middle East is most of them do assimilate. Many of them fled their oppressive societies for the freedoms in America.

I don’t really have an ear to the ground as a regular member of society here. I, too, am an import and I actively avoid the local news because it hurts my heart. What I do hear is, is the predictable anti-muslim bullshit. The anti-asylum seeker bullshit. And there there is imput from people who when through the experience but from other countries and slightly other reasons, but , as different all the stories are, they are very much alike. No, they are not here to get rich off the government. Yes, they chose Norway because it seemed like a country with many opportunities for someone who wanted an education or to ensure their children got a good education. No, they are not here to spread or insist on their culture becoming predominant. After all, they did leave for a reason. Yes, they appreciate the respect they are given and wonder at the lovely way caring for culture and community is built into our way of life here.
I expect the same will happen with Syrians. It is a VERY difficult adjustment living here. We are marginalised. And I mean ALL of us. I’m from the US/New Zealand and I work with a chap from Italy and he feels the same way….. many of us from even non-muslim countries have to really work to be accepted, and they probably do even more so. It can build resentment. Goddess knows, I certainly have some, so I can certainly have sympathy for those who are treated even less egalitarian in a society that professes to be of such.

Something worth reading about Scandinavian countries is their tradition of Janteloven. It is alive and well and horrificly demoralising sometimes. The English call it Tall Poppy syndrome.

@cazzie I just looked to the Wikipedia on it following your suggestion. Very interesting. I don’t remember ever learning about that.

@cazzie Both terms are new to me too, and the list of laws called Janteloven is especially striking. I’d heard of the same principle expressed slightly differently in the Japanese culture, and Kurt Vonnegut bitterly satirized the same idea in the story Harrison Bergeron. The differences between so-called “collectivist” cultures and “individualist” cultures sometimes don’t seem so great.

It makes them less accepting of anything different. It is simply ingrained in their culture, but it is under the guise of ‘tolerance’. But remember, there is an important difference.

@cazzie It’s so interesting, because so many Europeans seem so liberal and disgusted by anything that borders on sounding racist, and then to learn as a culture they basically do not really accept people who are different? They accept them as long as they keep their distance? Is that it?

Do they want the new immigrants to conform? To become really part of society? Intermarry? Or, do they deep down want everyone to stay separate. Obviously, not everyone in the country thinks alike, but what’s the basic feeling? Do they see themselves as better than?

What about second and third generation Norwegians? Do they get accepted? A second generation Norwegian whose family is from Italy, would he be completely accepted into society in Norway?