What can be done to rectify the fact that the U.S. Army has dishonorably discharged 22,000 soldiers with combat related mental health disorders since a 2009 law was passed just to prevent that from happening?

I rarely speak my mind about these kind of things.

Get rid of the worthless leadership in congress and also within the Army. I can’t speak for everyone’s experiences or other branches.

But things like this happen all the time, depending on how you are physically/mentally you are looked as a “shitbag” or “sick call ranger” for trying to fix your self or seek medical care of whatever sort. Often times you get to that point and the real issue is never understood, or addressed much less fixed. I have noticed from other soldiers stories that it has to develop into an extreme health issue before it is elevated to proper places or people. There is open door policies, but there is the reality and fear that you will get backlash for it or even then it will not be understood or fixed.

Almost all this ties into the leadership there i.e. higher ranking. Some of it is regulations and policies. Albeit again enforced or made by the leadership. I remember earlier this week my NCOIC made a statement of if you have a profile you shouldn’t be a leader or something to that effect. Unless it was combat related. Mind boggling and stupid view if you ask me.

The good ol’ boy system still runs rampant throughout the Army. The Army is reactive, not proactive. Many of the programs and systems in place are often nothing more than to “check the block” as they say or not done properly or to standard anyways. It is a culture and mindset that will be VERY slow, painful, and long process to get things changed. Assuming the leadership and individuals within the organization that is the Army adhere and enforce them to begin with.

I want to end this with saying I’ve had it both ways, great leadership and men/women you would want to follow and the exact opposite as well. Also being the low man on the totem poll doesn’t help. And often getting higher means you likely had to bend a little or a lot to get there so you have a good NCOER or OER. Don’t want to burn bridges as they say.

Just my experiences while active duty, only 4 years and some change in now. Take my thoughts with a grain of salt if you like.

It seems we class every problem as a ‘Systemic Problem’. I have no idea whether this really is systemic or just a few mistakes. A dishonorable Discharge for driving under the influence seems a bit harsh but automatically classing it as a war related injury also seems to be a bit of a stretch. The penalties for excessive drinking have grown decidedly harsher over the years since I was was in the military and it’s not clear to me whether this is a result of the harsher treatment by society or the military. I don’t know if 366 dishonorable discharges per year out of 1.5 million military personnel is reflective of a ‘Systemic Problem’ but it seems to be a fairly small number comparatively.

“They returned from Iraq and Afghanistan and were diagnosed with mental health disorders and traumatic brain injuries.” @Jaxk

So, the government diagnoses them with “with mental health disorders and traumatic brain injuries” and then denies them benefits?

Did you delve into the story enough to hear from the soldier that was denied benefits the day he was to retire because of a 2 year old DWI?

“Army investigators had failed to contact nine current and former troops whom soldiers’ rights advocates named to investigators as examples of what they alleged is widespread mistreatment of soldiers with mental health problems and traumatic brain injuries.”
How is that defensible?

@ibstubro – I’m neither defending nor condoning the military. I’m simply stating that I don’t know. Psychiatry/Psychology are not exact sciences, they are judgement calls. I’m sure they see thousands that are merely trying to work the system as well as those that have real problems. Most of the cases cited were alcoholics or at least alcohol related. Alcoholics have similar symptoms whether military or not. Since Nidal Hasan (the Ft. Hood shooter) was a psychiatrist, it seems obvious that some are not qualified to do the job. He also claimed to have PTSD.

It’s a tough call and I’m sure there are mistakes or misdiagnosis. Is it a systemic problem, I don’t know.

I heard that segment on NPR as well. Oh man… It did make my blood boil.
BUT I will throw something out here just to give perspective. Understand, I am making up numbers. Got it?
Let’s say there are 2.2 million soldiers who have returned home and 10% have PTSD. Now say 1% of all returning soldiers commit an offense that will get them kicked out.
With those numbers the sentence above: “the U.S. Army has dishonorably discharged 22,000 soldiers with combat related mental health disorders.” is just the number you’d expect if it was perfectly random. Another example Say 10% of soldiers are left handed in my example I can say “the U.S. Army has dishonorably discharged 22,000 soldiers who are left handed”.
Remember, I made up the numbers ! I’m just giving a math example. We have to be careful with the numbers.

I listened to those interviews and got mad. The “docs” seemed so incompetent. They are probably facing way more patients than they can handle with budgets that limit what they can do. But still….

I don’t care, and I don’t want to rationalize it away.
The soldiers were mentally impaired in the service of this country, and taking their medical benefits away is wrong.

There was one guy that was notified the day of, or the day before he was to retire. Dishonorably discharged for a DUI that was two years old.

And the army found that only the soldier who recorded his treatments was wronged?? Come, ON! That’s outrageous.
There are no flaws in the Army’s mental health program?

Some of this had to do with budget pressures on the VA medical system.
Orders to under-diagnose, under-treat, and under-support seemed to save some money to some jackass with a spreadsheet.
Congress has been throttling the budget of the VA, the most successful medical system in the U.S. by patient outcomes and costs – and not coincidentally completely socialist, to appease their corporate-medical-industrial complex overlords.

@ibstubro And how many don’t get treated because they know it will make it very difficult or impossible to ever obtain a carry permit?

I wonder if such draconian measures actually force some returning vets to “behave” and help them enter society quicker. It would be interesting to see if there are fewer DUIs among vets younger than 25 compared to those who have never served.
Draconian regulations, budget pressures, and incompetence.

I simply don’t understand how the US government can deny health care to someone that was injured in the service of our country.

I understand that physical problems are easier to diagnose and treat, but that’s not the patient’s responsibility.

How many of the 3.5 million people in the U.S. who experience homelessness each year (source) are veterans? Many homeless veterans are there for want of mental health care.

I ask you to remove the VA aspect from this question and just simply ask anyone who has had to have medical care in a clinical setting….these days it simply sucks! Add in an underfunded organization like the VA and it sucks ten fold. I lost a Fraternity brother who served in the Army because the VA could not schedule the tests he needed for 4 months and by then his previously undiagnosed cancer had reached stage 3 and the shitty care he was afforded there on out only ensured his early demise. I have another Frat brother who last year lost his dad because his dad was 87 years old and took a back seat to younger patients half his age and in a month was dead because of the lack of urgency to his condition because of his advanced age. I am not saying this out of spite but as a reflection of the new rules and actuary tables health care services now adhere to if all you have is ordinary health care insurance. If you are facing life threatening situations…you will need sacks of cash instead of Obamacare to ensure you get the care you desire.

If you truly value the service our vets gave to our country then elect a leader that will do everything in their power to right this disgraceful affront to our vets.

John McCain’s bid for the presidency, @Cruiser, was the only vet-friendly candidate I’ve seen in recent years.

Looks to me like having a Republican controlled congress and Obama as president could be a good thing for vets right now.
NPR seems fixated on the plight of veterans, and that keeps the flames fanned.

@ibstubro I am not so sure about Obama and a GOP congress is as good a thing as you think. They estimate it will take a min of 50 billion to fix the VA and the Senate has proposed the measures necessary to help fix what needs fixing, but the House cannot agree on how to fund these measures with the Dems nixing any spending cuts to other programs to help come up with the funds needed. So this push for VA reform keeps stalling out in Congress. What blows me away the most is how difficult it is to fire poor performing VA employees. There are though bills in Congress that would expand the VA secretary’s authority to fire staff for poor performance. This would be a big step in the right direction. link

Why not just privatise the VA and turn it into a for-profit corporation? Problem solved.

NPR keeping the heat on is helping.
Honestly, our federal government is so bloated, rejecting all cuts to existing programs is a joke. They need to combine like services and cut entire programs. My favorite example is USDA home loans. Giving the money to veterans would be the perfect excuse.

They are doing that to an extent, @ragingloli by giving some veterans vouchers if they live more than 40 miles from a VA hospital or the care they need isn’t available.

Independent 2013 Survey Shows Veterans Highly Satisfied with VA Care

Universal health care (not insurance) would solve some of the problems.