Social Question

msh's avatar

Survival based upon smarts, charity, or luck?

Asked by msh (4270points) October 29th, 2015 from iPhone

You are outfitting someone to survive out in the world, for TWO weeks. They must survive without any employment, limited access to financial aid, no home to live in. You cannot ‘give’ them anything.
They have the basics: a shirt, an undershirt, a pair of underwear, a pair of pants/skirt. A pair of socks. A sweater. That is all.
A pair of glasses, if needed. A blanket. A wallet for their means, including; an official and accepted ID, and twenty dollars (or worldwide equivalency.)
No phone. No shoes. No other belongings.
The temperature range for your person may not be to the extremes.
What are you going to do to make sure your person survives?

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22 Answers

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

Maybe too much is being read into this question. How can a person outfit another without ‘giving’ them anything? Let’s say that I draw a map to the local homeless shelter or police station. Wouldn’t that still be giving the person something?

CWOTUS's avatar

This sounds like an “Extreme Survival” episode as designed by someone who grew up on “Participation” trophies.

If you put me into the woods naked, alone and in the cold, at my current advanced age and declining level of fitness – and left me alone for the winter – then it would be a challenge worth taking on (and necessary to take on!). But this? It’s like a child’s challenge to “see if you can sit still for ten minutes in a row, Billy”. It’s kindergarten stuff. For an adult the equivalent is: “Can you find your way to a bus station?” “Do you know how pay phones work?”

One would have to be severely disabled, I think, and in several different ways – maybe one of them being “depressed to the point of suicide” or equivalent, maybe multiple broken limbs – to not survive that “challenge” well. In other words, it’s not much of a challenge.

Seek's avatar

Yeah, how is this even hard?

msh's avatar

Ok folks, step back. Deep breath!
This is like a logic exercise to see what you find what is important- in your opinion- for this person to do first? Buy shoes? Get a resume started at a public library? Interview for a job to get a little more money to start a better life? Go to McDonald’s? Stand in line for a POBox to get a government check – next month? (what about right now???)
You are not this person. You are playing an updated game of Life- without the little cars or people pegs in the cars! The wheel of life in the middle.
Relax. Try figuring out creative way to help this person succeed in the 2 week time period. Put them anywhere in the world.
Just use your experience and ideas to make it better for… well, your own little person.
Just open your mind on helping one little person succeed out in this cold cruel world!

Kardamom's avatar

We’re all tripped up on your rule that says: You cannot ‘give’ them anything. If that is the rule, then there is nothing we can do for them. No food, no maps, no advice. No nothing.

Jeruba's avatar

I’m confused by this apparent contradiction too: “You are outfitting someone . . . You cannot ‘give’ them anything.”

msh's avatar

Meaning- they are living a life. Not you. No mailing them money. No finding magic shopping bags with clothes, etc. No Publishers Clearing House to bail them out.
Example- They can go to a library and borrow a map- but you cannot just put one on a park bench to find it. Well, say, look what’s in my back pocket- doesn’t work. Read ^^
On what they have, figure out what they need to do to survive for two weeks. No rich uncle to GIVE them $, or shelter.
If you all are not able to understand with these postings, then take your little person and make them go down an alley and get mugged for their clothes then murdered, then you, yourself, move along to another question!
Or hey! Try coming up with some questions for others to have fun with creating or writing about!
Jeeze-o-flip! I can’t win! Put the pitchforks and torches down…
Darnn it! And I was SO going for the Literary Nobel with this one. Tsk! :|

ragingloli's avatar

Send them to the nearest unemployment office so he can get assistance.

Seek's avatar

They can’t get a p.o. box without a permanent address. Tried that once when I was homeless. Now I have a friend’s address permanently attached to my identity and I can never remember it because I never actually lived there…

Seek's avatar

Oh, so we’re changing the question from “stay alive for two weeks” to “dramatically improve their situation in two weeks”.

Well, assuming this person is an adult male, and in the area in which I live…

They can go to the library to access the internet to apply for public assistance. Except they can’t get a library card without proof of residence in the county. He could ask to borrow a phone to call and request a paper application, but no address… And it would take more than two weeks to arrive.

Let’s assume someone offers to let him access the internet on his card. He seems nice, why not?.

Unfortunately, new applications take to to 45 days to process, and it’s unlikely he will be accepted without a home address or a registered homeless person ID.

The state issued homeless ID costs more than $20, so let’s ignore the government assistance route.

My best advice to this person, and I only say it because it worked for a friend of mine, is to hie to the nearest thrift store, purchase a suit coat and nice looking pair of shoes, borrow a Sharpie and make a cardboard sign.

The sign should read as follows:

“SINGLE FATHER NEEDS CAREER. Experienced in skill set. Can work immediately.”

LuckyGuy's avatar

I get it @msh.

This is a bit like what a homeless person if faced with daily. (After being robbed of shoes.)
I will call my guy Jim. I’ll first send him to a GoodWill thrift store for shoes. He needs to be mobile.
Then I’d send him to the dumpster behind Aldi’s and the appliance store to get cardboard for a sign and emergency shelter.
This is going to be for 2 weeks, long enough that food an clothing is an issue but not so long that a permanent solution is required.
I would have Jim make and hold a sign: “Will work for food .” or “Day Labor” and see what serendipity brings.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

I would send them to the thrift store or a free clothes closet for a pair of good boots. Then I would send them down to the sponge docks where I used to live. I’d tell them to hang there and badger the captains for work on the fishing and sponge vessels. These captains will hire anyone with a strong back, no questions asked, no ID required. All they care about is that the person isn’t any trouble while on board. Being male helps. A month at sea can net the person 2 to 4 grand.

But it is tough work and they will be with a really tough crowd. It helps if the person can cook and have some knowledge of long lines. If the person can get along with these guys in close quarters, in the heat, in bad weather, and concentrate on what they’re doing and not get injured, they might be invited on another trip. It’s good seed money, and they can put ten grand together if they don’t blow it all on booze, drugs, and whores between trips like a lot of these guys do; It’s hard to get on without knowing someone and it’s hard while you’re out there, but they need new blood all the time.

Other than that, I got nothin’. As Seek described above, things have change over the years and the rules, regs, IDs, etc.,required of the homeless makes it in many ways, much harder to get started from net zero. But the job I described above doesn’t require any of these, nor decent clothes, not even a shower, just the ability to work hard under miserable conditions with some tough guys, some of them very unsavory characters.

Haleth's avatar

Stuff like this is why so many people get restaurant jobs, even if they suck. I once walked into a diner and asked for an application. The manager said, “do you want an application, or a job?” Apparently one of their waitresses had quit that day and they needed someone right then. Now that I think about it, none of the semi-shady (*ahem, small, family-owned) places where I waited tables asked for my ID.

@CWOTUS “Grew up on participation trophies” is perhaps the most perfectly-crafted phrase I’ve ever read. I might borrow that sometime.

Strauss's avatar

One of the items in the “allowed” list was: an official and accepted ID.

Most libraries in my area will allow computer use with a valid ID, no library card needed. That said, the library card can be obtained free of charge, again with a valid ID.

I would tell my “little person” to go to a thrift store and get some socks and shoes, and maybe a sleeping bag or blanket. Then the library, get on a computer, and find some of the many resources that are available in this area to the indigent population.

Seek's avatar

The question did not stipulate that the person has a permanent address to list on that ID. In my state, if you have an address listed that is not your permanent address, that ID is not valid. It’s a $30 fine if you’re caught with an ID that doesn’t reflect your legal permanent address. My stipulated person does not have the legal documentation necessary to acquire a valid identification.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Welcome to Flutherland I too often encounter. Quite a simple question one would think smart people could follow and get the gist of and not get tripped up over words. However, unless you go through and specify ”outfit” as being this, and this BUT NOT that, that and that, likewise ”anything” means this and that BUT NOT this or that unless specified in sec. B subheading IIV, then the simple question after you toss every bread crumb so even Willy Lump Lump can’t get lost with all the Hereto, insomuch, notwithstanding, etc. the question balloons into a volume of text as large as a small old-school phone book, then no one wants to read it because they say it is too wordy.

Now, understood the question from the get go, as well as the gist of it, let me answer it (and maybe some can learn). With the parameters I am taking they are in an urban setting (since no stipulation against it, I am assuming that is plausible, I can reason that out and not get stumped on the fact location was not mentioned). Second, not to get stumped, I can only use this area as the example of the exercise.

The first thing I would tell them is what I can help them with right there (information wise) is where and at what time to be for the free meals. This area is blessed that if you know where to go you can get at least one hot meal a day every day of the week. Also not getting stumped that the day of the week was not mentioned I have leeway to assume it is a business day, so I would tell them in detail how to get to the Brown Shelter where they can get food, toiletries, get a shower, and maybe a free pair of shoes (if they have their size at the moment). They can also make phone calls there and do a load of laundry on the three laundry days the shelter has, and they are provided detergent so they do not even have to buy that, as well as shampoo, toothpaste, etc, the shelter provides that. If the shelter did not have their size, I would direct them to the thrift shop about a half mile away where they can get a pair of shoes for a buck, and a watch cap and a jacket if it gets cold (and it is starting to do that at night). Then I would point out to them possible places they can tuck out of sight at night to be under protection and unseen so they can rest. I would also tell them places where they can use a toilet for free, without having to buy something or be seen as an actual ”customer”. I would tell them arias to stay away from because of shady people who might prey on them. I will show them where the library is and the hours so they can connect to who or whatever by email or online. I will also tell them the location of the Resource and Referral center where they can get help like a tarp, phone calls, online time, etc. In this area they could fair OK for two weeks, maybe longer. It will not be the lap of luxury but they will, be able to stay fed and clean and stretch that $20 as far as it can go.

See, was it really that hard?

Seek's avatar

The reason I take this question so seriously is because for far too many people, this is a reality.

In my area, one popular way for the authorities to “deal” with the homeless “problem” is to buy the people a bus ticket to anywhere, provided they pinky promise to not come back.

So these people end up the “problem” of some other state, with nothing but what is on their back and maybe that $20. And they have the rest of their lives, which we all hope is more than two weeks.

msh's avatar

@Seek
I would never make light of anyone’s life situation. The line between having a home and not having a place to stay is too close. I apologize for bringing up anything unpleasant to cause any upset. That is something I would not do to anyone, nor their circumstances.
It is merely a question to take someone and show their pathway to making it a good two weeks. No social commentary, just to take care of your ‘peg person’ as if in board game of Life -or a video game for those to young for board game fun.
I think some took a hopefully challenging question and instead of getting creative with it, people lit up the torches and got their pitch forks, each with a different criticism or reasoning, and jumped up and down on it. It’s a question for fun- not a trampoline.
If I am not enjoying a question, I skate on by and go elsewhere, not jump the author.
Take heart, no harm is ever intended. OK?
Seek- I would not do this, my apologies to you.

Jeruba's avatar

Well, there’s this:
http://hubpages.com/politics/what_to_buy_if_you_are_homeless

from this 2009 question:
http://www.fluther.com/45268/if-you-were-homeless-and-decided-to-start-your-life-down/

To me that was one of the most informative Fluther Qs ever.

CWOTUS's avatar

Along with the question @Jeruba referred to, there was a question in a similar vein about “What should I do if I’m about to be homeless in [Seattle or the Pacific Northwest, I think]?” from a couple or three years ago. (I only recall that because I participated in it, but I can’t find it right now.)

Since that’s what this is about, not so much “survival”, but “how can I improve my situation”, it puts things in a different light.

The first things to do if you’re homeless are to find some kind of secure (relatively) and dry shelter. You can get warm later if you’re dry, but if you’re wet in the cold then you’ll have a hell of a time getting warm. And if you can’t stay warm then you’ll die. So, in order of importance:
– find some place to sleep / stay / rest that has some marginal security;
– be sure it’s a dry place (and keep in mind that a place that is dry “now” may not be later if the weather turns);
– after you’re secure and dry is the time to work on staying warm;
– when you’ve arranged some kind of shelter then you will need a source of fresh, potable water;
– if you’re in a non-urban and arid area, this may be the most important thing, so you need to be aware of where you are and what resources you have; obtaining drinking water in an urban, industrialized area with nominal sanitation is normally not a tough thing to resolve – you can always resort to finishing half-filled bottles of drinking water discarded every day by those who can’t be bothered to finish them or carry them any longer; it’s not ideal, but if someone else was drinking it, then you probably can, too;
– find a way to feed yourself, which can range from dumpster diving to simply asking people to buy you a burger outside of a restaurant; people are much more likely to “actually feed” someone in obvious need than they are to give him money for who-knows-what purpose;
– depending on the weather, the condition of my feet and the ground I have to walk upon, obtaining shoes or sandals would be a low-priority item; in very hot or cold weather or very rough or dangerous terrain then foot protection would be a much higher priority; the homeless have to be mobile (hence the term “vagabond”);
– part of the issue of “obtaining security” (and sometimes unexpected help) is letting yourself be known to the police; if they know that you’re intelligent, sane, more or less polite and non-threatening, then they will not only not hassle you (usually) but may go out of their way to assist you in obtaining the other things you need – even temporary labor or direct assistance.

So one thing that I would counsel is to simply be a bit outgoing: friendly, helpful (just standing in one place, smiling and chatting to passers-by and opening a door to a public building could start a valuable conversation) and letting it be known that you’re not a threat AND that you have nothing but don’t want to steal anything, either. A smile and a kind word can get you a lot. It also doesn’t hurt to ask for “help” more than money: “Do you know where a guy could get some work for the day?” for example. In a suburban setting you could go door to door offering to wash cars, rake leaves or even clean pools for a few bucks. In a rural setting, there is always something to be done, if anyone is observant enough to see what it might be and who might want that done.

I’ve never slept in a garage before, but I’ve slept in my car plenty of times. Secure, dry and warm; it makes my top requirements. (I’ve never slept under a snow drift or a pile of leaves before, but I did sleep under a lean-to shanty one rainy night. I’d prefer the snow, I think.)

Coloma's avatar

I’m still trying to figure out why they are allowed a sweater, shirts/pants/skirts an undershirt, underwear, socks but no shoes?
Why not only underwear and a sweater? Why glasses but no shoes?
Why not only glasses and socks and no clothes at all? LMAO!

msh's avatar

Shoes and blankets rate as the highest on a list of requests from those needing help.
( regardless of area chosen for their person to be set up.)
I chose shoes to see if anyone knew or thought of that at all. Some here did!

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