What's your opinion on both vegetarian and vegan diets?

It’s hard to be truly vegan and frankly, unnecessary.
Even for ethical reasons, it comes unstuck as a lifestyle choice when modern life truly mucks up the morals. In the UK it’s popular to adopt former battery hens and give them a ‘good life’ for a while after their factory lifestyle has taken its toll. But, because all they have done is lay eggs every day since reaching adulthood, they continue to do so almost to the end of their lives and perfectly happily too if fed and kept properly. If vegans adopt them – and they sometimes do – they must then either justify wasting the eggs or eat them!
Vegetarianism nowadays is surrounded by fashion, fad and odd new names that permit the inclusion of non-vegetable foods, e.g. Lacto-ovo vegetarians… Pesky pescatorians…
Basically, my husband and I eat meat on an occasional basis, both having been vegetarian in the past. Neither of us have been vegan though we do cook for vegan friends.
Opinion? That either will keep you alive if you are prepared to be vigilant with what you eat.
Better? Everything in… Oh, wait for it… Moderation! Yep, boring though it is.
By that I personally mean: treat meat as it should be treated, with respect. Eat all parts of the animals you choose to eat, anything less is a waste of life.
Preserved meats, which are the main ones named as damaging by WHO, should be eaten as they were intended which is actually very seasonal. Salting and pickling are generally practices developed to get through winter. By early summer new young animals provide a rich source of fresh protein, so why eat the preserved stuff?
Um, because it tastes great – I know!
A bit of bacon once in a while won’t hurt at all, nor will a Big Mac or a Sausage butty, But, eating bacon for breakfast, sausages for lunch and a huge red and bloody steak for dinner on a daily basis will probably make you lean, constipated and smelly (Atkins Diet!) long before killing you with cancer…
Eat everything. Variety in diet has been shown to improve longevity. Try new things, don’t waste food, be veggie or vegan if you like, just take care of the chickens and don’t try to stuff your beliefs down other people’s throats. That way likely a more violent end than cancer lies…
thank you @Morocco for asking a simple question. I haven’t posted much for a while and it gave me a chance to blather on a bit!

I’ve never attempted to be vegan, nor would I. I’d rather die than give up cheese forever.

I have done vegetarian diets, for health reasons. It was not because I felt being vegetarian was more healthy, I was just fighting against a failing organ and lacked the money to have it medically treated. I had to be on an extremely low-fat diet off and on for about three years. Best way to do that is give up meat, cheese, and butter. Oh. Dear. God, what a boring life that was. I ended up losing about 25 lbs and hated life because, well, I love food and I wasn’t allowed to have any of it.

Having the choice to eat, or not eat, whatever you want, is the hallmark of an affluent nation where none of its citizens are literally starving to death.

Having said that, each to his own. If I like what I see, I eat it. I can easily be happy with a meal that contains no meat, though. My husband, not so much. On my 5th piece of bacon now.

It is the moral way to eat.

I don’t have a beef with those who swear by non-meat diets. But having grown up in Texas on steaks, roasts, burgers and frank’s, I’ll most likely be a beefatarian for life.

That said, I have cut down on meat the past few years to lower cholesterol and blood pressure.

My Son’s GF is a vegetarian. It is a giant huge pain in the bottom when she comes for dinner because the boy, mommy and I are all carnivores. Basically that means I have to come up with a separate menu for her on say, Thanksgiving which is coming up. What galls me is she is a vegetarian for no particular reason and is kind of haughty about it, and give me no guidance on what she wants me to prepare. “I’ll find something to eat.” Humph. Personally I don’t have any problem with vegetarians or vegans at all unless they flash an attitude at me as I enjoy my bacon or chicken. I had a great running joke with a vegan friend over whether vegans are allowed to have oral sex. Never really got that one nailed down but it was pretty funny sometimes the conversations we would get into.

@majorrich : I believe that you mean you are an omnivore.

I am sorry @majorrich. Honestly, I wouldn’t go out of my way for her. I’m sure there are plenty of vegetable options at Thanksgiving, like corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, green beans, stuffing, whatever, so that she can just find her own food without you having to make an entire separate menu. I just wouldn’t do it.
I would also ignore any attempt she might make to preach at me or make me feel guilty or make herself out to be superior.

To add to my blather above about vegans and vegetarians, we will happily accommodate guests’ preferences… We have a coeliac in the family, I am lactose intolerant and a friend who is vegan; we delight in the variety and welcome one and all to eat with us. Live, let live, share what you have people – @Dutchess_III I am sure you would be welcoming to someone for an important celebration and there are some simple and tasty options for veggies which would not limit someone to just eating the sweet potatoes etc!

I was vegetarian for a long time, I felt good and enjoyed it. I was vegan for a while and didn’t thrive, I became so weak and unhealthy after about 6 months that I reintroduced dairy and eggs. I have been an omnivore for a few decades, and, at this point in my life, it is the healthiest option for me.

Some people thrive as vegans, others don’t. Being a vegetarian, with eggs and dairy, is probably a complete dietary plan for humans in general and I imagine you be would healthy. I think it is more important how you source your food. If you can eat mostly locally sourced, primarily organic food, your health will be better. Vegetarian junk food is still junk food, after all.

I was vegetarian long before everyone was used to it, so I would either eat before I went to a non-vegetarian household or restaurant, or at least bring snacks in case I wasn’t sure.

@majorrich
I am sure you are equally miffed about your jewish and muslim aquaintances and their silly kosher/halal requirements

I’m always happy to accommodate special diets of guests. It’s kind of the standard hello when hubby brings friends home. “Hi, have you eaten? Any food allergies or preferences?”

@ragingloli If they provided me with some guidance as to what they want or if they need something to be prepared in a certain way I am more than happy to do it; it just adds to repertoire. It’s just the attitude they throw up that kind of irks me. I have Jewish friends and am happy to attempt to cook Kosher meals to share with their help so I do it right. I’m sure if I had any Muslim friends I would be the same way.

If a person needs a special diet for health reasons, then of course I would accommodate. That is different than expecting people to go out of their way to accommodate you just because of your preferences. I’m not saying to just ignore it. I’m saying that there are plenty of non-meat dishes that I would make for a large meal that I would make anyway. They can pick what they want out of that. I don’t care.

That’s not to say I would ignore preferences altogether. Let’s say we’re having a barbque and if someone doesn’t eat meat, and I know it, and I’m making baked beans. I have no problem leaving out the bacon I usually put in it. If were were having jalapeno poppers, for example, I’d make about 5 without the bacon, which would actually be convenient for me. Wrapping bacon around them is a real pain.

Also, I’m curious, what, exactly, are you replacing with a special menu?

@Dutchess III That’s kind of the good part, I’m not this year. She’s going to her Grandparents and Will is coming home. I can use butter and Bacon and all the stuff I love to make. I like giblets in my stuffing. I once pressed tofu and grilled it for her. It was a pretty good experiment and I’ve since used it for myself while on my recent diet. She didn’t much care for it. I was going to add a green bean casserole, a Pilaf and maybe a green salad. Just more stuff basically. She does eat fish so I’ve taken to poaching or grilling a piece of fish for her.

The problem (for me) with both of those attitudes for food is that there is an implied philosophical outlook that appears to be implied by accepting the food choice.

For example, when someone says they’re eating vegan, there’s this automatic assumption that the person is anti-GMO crops, votes liberal, doesn’t want the Keystone pipeline, supports Greenpeace and dislikes the Tea Party. There’s this aura of “if you buy one piece of it, you buy the whole liberal agenda”.

And that’s not just from outsiders looking in at vegans and vegetarians – it seems like there’s in internal pressure to buy into it as well.

All of that said, if you want to be a veggie, have at it. Some of the worst meals I have ever eaten were vegetarian.

The idea that vegetarians eat healthier is illogical. There is nothing inherently unhealthy about meat – the focus should be on how much meat you are consuming, as well as which kind. It is important to find out where your meat comes from.

That said, I’ve been a vegetarian ever since I was five years old. While I cringe at the thought of factory farming or the slaughterhouses, I don’t go around badgering others to change their eating habits. When my hosts worry about accommodating me, I say exactly what the girlfriend of @majorrich‘s son says, “Thanks, I’ll find something to eat, don’t go to any trouble.” I guess my tone is different, because everyone I’ve said this to has been relieved and happy to just let me pick and choose. For Christmas dinner, I don’t get a tofu turkey. I do get an extra helping of the Yorkshire Puddings, because I love them and my family takes pity.

For most people, going vegetarian is a choice. I don’t think everyone else should be expected to buy tofu, though I do appreciate it if people want to do so.

Thanks @longgone. That’s exactly what I mean. If you have 6 dishes and only one of them is a meat dish, is it really necessary to make another dish to replace that meat dish? And whatever would you do that for?

I also know that meat itself is not unhealthy. We have evolved over millions of years to have a digestive tract that includes meat.

I was a vegetarian, still ate cheese and a few eggs, but no meats for about 5 years back in the 70’s. Eventually I returned to the middle path and while I do not eat a lot of meat I do eat it and happily, probably, average, 2–3 times a week, beef maybe once, such as spaghetti sauce and otherwise mostly chicken. We also eat a lot of non-meat dinners as well. I bake cabbage and potatoes and have a lot of veggies over rice, veggie soups, veggie chili etc.

Tonight is home made split pea soup with home made croutons and salad. Last night I had albacore tuna salad on toast with home made bread and butter pickles and salad and whole grain and seed tortilla chips with cantaloupe on the side.
I do buy though the better lifestyle raised, organic grass fed beef and non-factory farmed chicken and because I live in a rural area we have lots of locally and humanely raised organic animal products. Tyson, Foster Farms and many others practice horrible “farming” procedures and the abuse of animals is horrendous.
We also have 8 happy hens here that give us lovely fresh eggs and geese too. Our birds are all pets and enjoy a nice, free ranging lifestyle and are safely out up in their coop and barn at night.

Humans are Omnivores and eating meat, fish, poultry and dairy is not the issue, the issue is people eat too MUCH of it and the issue is also promoting the cruelty based industry of factory farming practices. Eat less and buy quality and humanely raised and…viola…a non-issue.
My neighbors raise a few head of beef a year and they enjoy a wonderful life, grazing in a huge, ( like 10 acre ) irrigated green pastures studded with giant Oak trees, frisking around, napping in the grass, living happy cow lives until one day the mobile butcher arrives and it is all over, painlessly and quickly, right at home. No trauma from being trucked to feed lots, slaughter houses, getting banged up, injured or killed in transit, no terror filled last hours and moments watching their comrades be slaughtered in front of them.

Quality of life is everything and if we could sustain the teeming masses on the scale of small farms from yester – year, this would be ideal.
Sadly those days are long gone except for some of us rural peeps that can still grow our own.

@majorrich “I can use butter…”

If she’s a vegetarian (as opposed to a vegan), how come butter is an issue? Did I misunderstand?

She threw that in there once when she was getting preachy, I think just to push my buttons. My Son adores her so I am trying really hard to be accommodating. It was quite the curve ball as I know she does fish, and loves macaroni and cheese. Do girls do that kind of stuff just to be contrary? I had no sisters and no daughters so don’t really know how to take banter from girls. Momma says most of it flies past me. I am secretly hoping she is not ‘the one’ but she is his first very serious relationship and they have lived together for a couple of years.

Other than being a picky eater, what is she like?

I’m having a difficult time reading her. She is pretty self sufficient and disciplined, which is something I admire. Perhaps a bit more liberal to my conservative, but I mark that up to being fresh out of college. She seems to set the agenda for their social life and vacationing but am not entirely clear about that. My Son may be going along to get along. She is attractive and well spoken, also something I admire. However, there is a certain something I can’t put my finger on it that kind of irritates me after a while. Probably all in my imagination, but she is a trust fund baby and has never really had to work at all. I come from a very in the trenches kind of background and put Will through school by sacrifice and luck. Perhaps it’s a jealousy thing. There is a certain air of superiority to her I think. I am trying very hard to believe it is my imagination or fear of losing my son.

Uppity? Condescending?

Kind of condescending. Like I don’t really have a brain.

Shit. I know people like that. How long have they been dating?

It’s been about 2 years now. This is the one that doesn’t drive either. I’m baffled.

I am not a vegetarian since I eat poultry, but I have given up eating red meats. I don’t miss them. The thought of biting into a steak no longer has any appeal.

@LostInParadise – isn’t it great that in America we have choice – we can buy almost anything at the store, and we can eat what we want?

I love a good steak, charred and hot off the grill. I don’t have that often, so it’s a special treat.

Where’s the beef?

First world problems, @elbanditoroso. Too much to eat.

vegetarianism is thousands of years old.

Well, if you have enough vegetation to meet your needs, no problem.

Gosh. I happened on an old thread on this issue and someone actually said that the human digestive system was designed to digest meat. It was our own Katawagrey no less. :(

@ragingloli Usually for religious reasons though, so calling Vegetarianism and Veganism religions is not entirely unwarranted. The fact that the proselytize loudly (and, ironically, not always peacefully) only reinforces the notion that they are a religion, and one with some radical extremists in their ranks. I tend to get a little tetchy when it comes to religious fundamentalism. And since some hardcore vegetarians try to “convert” their cats and wind up killing them because they refuse to believe that (unlike dogs and humans) cats need meat, well, I think you can see why I might have problems taking condemnation of killing animals meat from people who kill cats for no reason other than dogma. At least meat-eaters eat what they kill!

@Dutchess_III We were designed to eat whatever was available. Our relatively high activity level requires us to either eat some meat, or to dedicate ourselves to foraging as a full-time job. Advances in agriculture have led to us being able to make fields that have dense enough “foraging” to feed more people per acre with food of higher nutritional density, but that is countered by the effort required to maintain a nutritionally-complete diet that diet that doesn’t include meat.
Now, as @elbanditoroso says, if you live in an industrialized nation and have the money, you could get any amount of any food you want. That means that many (though not all) people have the luxury of being able to have all sorts of arbitrary restrictions on their diet without keeling over within the week. However, that is a social construct that does not change the fact that humans are fundamentally omnivorous.

Well said, @jerv. It is a luxury. I know that the human digestive system is well equipped to digest meat. I was just disappointed to read that bit from Katawagrey. Whose daughter was she? I foget.

Ha ha ha. This is the second question I’ve seen about vegetarians (of which I am one) tonight, but it’s almost midnight so I’m too tired to give a decent answer. I’ll check in tomorrow, read everyone else’s responses and then try to give a useful answer.

@Kardamom
No need for a drawn out “ha ha ha”.
A simple “lol” will suffice, thank you.

What I don’t like are the hardcore, militant vegans that think you can’t love animals if you choose to eat a few now and then. haha
Seriously, get over elitist selves.
So I guess my years of volunteering in wildlife rehab, rescuing cats, geese, and all manner of other animals and caring for many disabled and blind creatures means nothing because I eat a taco, make spaghetti sauce with beef or roast a chicken a couple times a month. Pffft!

Well,tacos are ok. But only tacos.

Tacos are always OK.

So it would be fine for a cannibal to eat humans if he raised them himself?

Yep!

Was it ever decided if it is ok for vegans to swallow during oral sex?

I think..no. Too much protein.

LOL!

Well, and it’s half a human too. Let the pro life people chew on that for a while and that was really, really gross, Val!

If you have to chew that, there’s a problem…

Ok, well, let them put that in their pipe and smoke it then!....Wait. That could be a problem too.