Who is claiming all the property left behind by the Syrian refugees?

That 6 million number is as of the end of 2014. The EU estimates there are now 9 million refugees.

I do not know the exact answer to your question. I wonder how much they actually left behind. Have they left anything worth claiming?

I’m sure there is a lot of value that has been left if it isn’t bombed to smithereens but who knows if they’ll return and if so, what kind of country they’ll be returning to.

I had the experience of walking through a deserted Arab village on the West Bank right after the Six Day War. Linens and school books trashed on the ground of unlocked houses. It left me with a profound sympathy for the victims of war and refugees.

I don’t know if there are property rights but assuming there are, even if a building is left a pile of rubble the land is worth something.
I suspect that supporters of whichever regime takes over will simply lay claim to the property – like the Holocaust except the victims are left alive.

I can’t help but wonder what I would do in that same situation. Would I fight or would I leave – so I could fight for my property another day.

If I feared for the lives of my children, I would probably leave. Whether I’d try to return, I don’t know.

I would flee in the face of a rabid foe such as ISIS.

I was reading how in German Occupied lands (during WWII) often a neighbor would turn in a Jewish family and then be granted much of their property. No doubt they still “own” the property.
Maybe Shiites and Sunnis are doing the same. Then they both are trumped by ISIS.

Is there any way this can all end reasonably? It just gets worse every day.

@LuckyGuy It’s a horror show. I can’t begin to imagine.

I hope you receive many more “great question” accolades for asking this. My guess is that none of those possibilities stands even a remote chance of seeing the light of consideration for more reasons than you can list. To begin with what possible chance is there that Syria will be a place where ANYONE would willingly choose to live within the lifetime of the adults who fled, and secondly, who in the entire region wouldn’t leave in an instant for the prospect of a life in the West?

And realistically, whatever left behind is gone. And as for the return of the diaspora, try to find a single example of a massive outflow of refugees willing returning to their devastated homeland.

Maybe ISIS will take over the whole country and utilize it all as a training ground.

@LuckyGuy , Great question. It is something to think about.
Land is without worth, unless it can be farmed, or welled for water, or oil, etc. Location is what has value, if any. I should think any land ownership which has been abandoned is worthless, and shall remain such until the area is hospitable.

Look what the Jews freshly released from concentration camps did to the desert in Israel. They worked that worthless ground hard, dug wells, planted trees. In a “relatively” few years that country became a powerhouse – and so desirable every country around it wants a piece.

Could the desert in Syria become a homeland for homeless Syrians and Palestinians? There is plenty of water in the rivers and in Lake Assad – much more than in Israel. If they are starting from scratch they can have solar power. Everyone just needs to be pulling in the same directions and working to build up rather than tear down.

It appears the only thing every “Arab” agrees with is a hate for Israel. If they just looked in the mirror to see the source of their problems and agreed to concentrate on rebuilding, they too could become a worthwhile powerhouse.

I would guess it is requisitioned by whatever militia controls the area. Things are so hopeless in the refugee camps that some are even going back to Syria

@flutherother I can’t imagine how bad must it be for a refugee to want to return. Awful.
And when they do return they find everything they had was stolen. Everything.

IMO
Isil owns everything. We just don’t know it yet.
Or so they believe.
They are destroying everything. And everyone.
Their whole plan is to draw their prey into warring at a central point, as told in their interpretation of the Koran. Ground zero, if you will. It is in their victory here, that will bring about their control over all.
There will be no state of anything until this group is gone.
And that is not going to occur soon, nor in total numbers.
Please remember that Africa’s countries are not settled as far as governance, economy, borders, and other Muslim groups with subtle diferences in beliefs and actions. Martyrdoms and groups carrying out their functions, like Boko Haram, are seeking legitimacy. They are already associated with the basic levels of Isil. If these areas all come under Isil….wow.
This instability has occurred in these areas throughout time. This time, however, the weapons are a lot more deadly.
Do you believe we will see an end to all of this and the resulting rebuilding of the area in our lifetimes?
With greed, manipulation, power, land, control, zealots, martyrdom, and a healthy serving of stupidity, coupled with nuclear power – are you sure?

I thought that some of the material items taken from the Jews during the Holocaust were kept somewhere, I guess by the government? That there were logs recording the items? It doesn’t surprise me that soldiers and neighbors also stole items.

In fact, my first thought when I read the Q was that probably a lot of looting is going on.

I have no idea what the actual answer is, but the whole idea of it makes me sick. It’s part of why I get nervous about material things; the loss of them is daunting to me. My aunt used to give me jewelry all the time, she wanted family to use it and wear it before it was stolen. I’m looking for a house again and I keep trying to look at smaller ones, and my husband would buy a mansion if he could afford it. He doesn’t think in terms of having to leave, or losing property.

Does it matter if a neighbor stole the item or if the government confiscated it? I guess maybe. Eventually, when the government changes there might be some efforts to return property. It can be difficult if the items or real estate have been given to other people. Eventually, it becomes theirs, especially after a generation or two. If terrorist groups are controlling things and stealing? Who knows what will happen. Some people in the group, if the group gets destroyed, will go back to being normal citizens I guess? Will they return stolen items? Most won’t, some might.

Some neighbors might take items with the very hope of returning them to their neighbors who left. They are not stealing, they are protecting the items.

It’s a nice idea that Syria could become a very productive fertile place. I hope that happens. Hopefully, this is the horror before the peace, and not a horror with nothing positive afterwards. Not that I think stealing, killing, and terrorizing is ever ok or justified. I don’t think of it as a silver lining if things wind up better. Things can be better without all that terrible stuff.

This Q reminds me of the book Broken for You by Stephanie Kallos. It was difficult for me to get through it. Part of the story is about a house full of stolen property from WWII and creating mosaics out of it. Here is a blurb about the book.

@JLeslie Homes/apartments were simply taken over by neighbors who annexed them into their own estates. They could forge papers saying they bought it and nobody would argue. A lot of wealth changed hands / was stolen / appropriated this way. Sure, some property was returned but it was a pittance. Dead people don’t argue. Look how long it took for the Swiss to admit they kept (stole) the valuables and accounts left untouched in their safe deposit boxes for more than 20 years. They figured all the family members were dead so they could just take them.

Syria could be a fantastic country. The Fertile Crescent The Euphrades. And now with solar technology it could be a wonderful place. They just need to put “tolerance” drops in the water supply.

@LuckyGuy I’m sure the majority of the property is just kept by the new “owners.” Finders keepers. Many of us live on land that was land of the Native Americans. They didn’t really have ownership like we do, but we still kind of stole it, laid claim to it, built our towns and cities and put state borders around it, and now it’s been enough generations that we are very sure it’s ours, not to be given back. It’s not a perfect analogy, because again, the Indians didn’t have ownership in the same way we do, but it seems throughout history cultures conquer and take and lay claim.

Especially, if the new people modernize the land and make it productive. I feel strongly Israel has a right to exist and was created in a legitimate way. In addition, seeing what the Jews did with that small strip if land it feels impossible to try to remove the people who built up the country from that land. Now, many years later, it is theirs no matter what the history, because they created what exists there. Right? However, what I don’t know about Israel, because I’m terrible at history, is if the Jews actually took over Arab property when the state/country was created, or if they just bought it up? I would tend to think, and hope, it’s the latter.

I want to point out a huge percentage of the Jews were dead, not refugees. In the case of Syria, I know people have died, but as far as I know it’s not like the Holocaust in percentages. In Poland 9 out of 10 Jews were killed. Germany the number is high too, but not as high as some might think. In Denmark 9 out of 10 Jews survived. I’m sure you know about the massive effort made by the Danish to send their Jews to Sweden to save their lives. I wonder how many of those Jews returned to Denmark, and if they got back some of their property?

In the details I specify the live refugees vs the dead Jews.
“The 6.5 million number of refugees is similar to the 6 million Jews killed in concentration camps. Their property was typically taken over quietly by neighbors in Germany, Austria, Poland, and other countries invaded by Germany. Very little of it was returned. After all, the dead can not ask for compensation.
Now we have 6.5 million live refugees. Will they eventually try to return to claim their property?”

Whoever takes it over will eventually be crushed by the weight of keeping what they stole. I know if I were forced to leave my home it would be so boobytrapped they would have to level the place and still would worry about toxic chemicals and/or radiation. Hopefully at least a few clever Syrian refugees left “surprises” for anyone trying to steal their property.

I’m thinking the best solution would be to give the refugees a homeland – Syria!

My bet is that you couldn’t force the place on them. Refugees NEVER wind up going home. And the great distinction between the Syrian refugees and the murdered Jews is that the Jews in were a minority population well integrated and dispersed throughout Germany. The Jews were rounded up and hauled away with neighbors left to exploit the opportunity in a random and leisurely fashion. The Syrians, on the other hand are running from a battlefield. Clearly, the vast majority of them liquidated anything of value they could carry in order to finance their excursion. And who is it that remains to loot their belongings? Rebel fighters and Assad loyalists? The refugees aren’t people snatched in the middle of the night. They’re people who ELECTED to flee, and the odds are very great that those who left would certainly entrust what they could not carry to those friends or relatives unfortunate enough to stay behind. But the chaos from which they fled renders any sort of record keeping or determination of what goes on in their absence problematic at best. And the chance of syria being a place fit for anyone to willingly return in my lifetime or yours is more than remote.

@LuckyGuy I grew up with family members always saying if the Jews have to give up Israel they should destroy everything as they leave. I think all Jews feel that way. We built it, we aren’t going to let people who have tried for years to kill us, who aren’t productive themselves, to enjoy what was built with hard work and sacrifice.

@Stanleybmanly I think it matters a lot on how long it takes for it to be safe to return. Usually, once a new generation is born in the new country, the people become more assimilated, and leaving, or going back, doesn’t make sense.

@JLeslie Be careful with that outlook. That’s the same sort of argument Andrew Jackson made when he exported the Cherokee, and it’s the exact rationale the U S government handed the Sioux when settlers flooded the plains on rumors of gold in the Dakotas. The proposition that someone is entitled to your property because they can make a paradise of it is small compensation for the fact that it was YOUR property.

@JLeslie Please be careful of making statements like “I think all Jews feel that way.” How could you possibly know?

@JLeslie And you’re right about rapid assimilation by immigrants, but the thing we’re all neglecting about the time factor involved with the restoration of Syria is that for those refugees now in Germany and Sweden the question isn’t about peace in Syria, it’s about the length of time til life in Syria can compare with life in Germany or Sweden. Just how long do you think that might take?

@Janbb I don’t know. Ok, I think a lot of Jews feel that way. I never think all of any group. My mistake in wording. Even then, I still could be wrong. Maybe it isn’t even most. @LuckyGuy just talked about the booby traps and it rang true for me from what I heard growing up. When I say I think, it doesn’t mean to me that I am saying I know, or that it is a sure thing, it’s just what I think.

@stanleybmanly My point is that is how cultures have behaved for thousands of years. I’m not saying I’m ok with it. Who does deserve the land now? It’s a complex question. Do we give our America back to the Indians? Do the Jews get Israel because they were there first? We have to be consistent don’t we? It’s very complicated of course as I stated. Each situation has it’s own intricacies.

MY point about Israel is that it is EXTREMELY important to recognize the Palestinian point of view and particularly the parallel between their plight and that of our OWN Palestinians. The thing that distinguishes our situation from that of Israel is that we managed for all practical purposes to exterminate OUR Palestinians, while the Israeli Sioux and Cherokee have quadrupled in population. Israel is in the unenviable position that in view of their own history, the extermination of their opposition is all but unthinkable. But the Palestinians are neither going away nor about to dismiss the ongoing expropriation of their land. Their population continues to swell, and each new settlement in violation of every treaty they’ve agreed to just elevates their frustration. We have to face up to the fact that in the long term, Israel as a reality is just plain untenable.

@janbb I certainly would not make it easy for someone else to take my property. They would not get it for free. All utilities would be shut off awaiting my return. But pity the poor sap foolish enough to turn them back on without my permission. Yikes.

@LuckyGuy That’s not the point I was addressing.

@stanleybmanly I also think it’s very important to try to understand the Palestinians POV.

@janbb I can only offer myself as an example. If I built it and had to leave under duress I would make sure the victor did not enjoy the spoils.

An interesting tidbit: I had a friend who’s family lost their home in Prague when the Communists took over. After the fall of the Iron Curtain, he moved back and reclaimed the house. It was given to him. I do not know any details about how he proved his property rights.

There are so many variables in the present civil war in Syria. We simply can’t predict what will happen. When it finally ends, there will be people who will want to move back. There will be others who will choose to stay where they’ve found refuge and built lives. There will be as many reasons to return or stay as there are refugees. Each family will have their own reasons.

^^ Exactly

Right now it is to the aggressors’ benefit when honest, law abiding citizens pack up and leave. Everything they leave behind makes the predators stronger.

In nature, predators only predate when the effort gets them more energy/calories than they expend. Hummingbirds cluster their nests near hawk nests to avoid being eaten by squirrels. Why? Because hawks will attack and eat nearby squirrels but don’t bother with hummingbirds since they are too small.

(I’m picking a number) 95% of the population just want to be left alone and go about their business, feeding their children, maintaining their homes. But It is the rowdy 5% that make the noise and destroy the infrastructure. The predators benefit when good families give up. If even a few of the good people (the 95%) “poisoned the wells” before leaving it would cost the predators a lot of extra energy.

All the predators need to win is to have the prey give up and do nothing.

I readily admit I am writing this in the comfort of my own home and have no idea how I’d react if someone tried to force me out of it. (But I do have my suspicions)

Syria has the potential to be beautiful if energy was spent building it up rather than tearing it down.
In return for food, clothing, and housing aid, could refugees be used as labor to build more permanent settlements?

@LuckyGuy We have no idea of what it is like to live in terror or in a war-torn nation. I suspect if there were a threat of death or dismemberment for me or my loved ones every time we stepped out the door, we would pack some small valuables and mementos and get the hell out of Dodge. If we could protect our property great but there might not be time.

What could happen after peace is restored in Syria is impossible to speculate. Eventually it will prosper again and folk may well want to return to their homeland (many of us prefer “home” to anywhere else) but who knows when that might be.

I’m pretty sure I would get out of Dodge if my country was so unsafe, or if I was part of a target group.

@janbb Don’t you think once children start growing up in the new country it becomes more difficult, or less desirable, to return to the old country?

@JLeslie Yes I do think it is harder or less desirable to return once new generations put down roots.

@LuckyGuy You overlook the fact that the predators require someone (prey) to exploit. If the hummingbirds leave, the squirrels do without and up the chain, the Hawks will soon eat less. Syria does have the potential to be a beautiful place. But minus an exploitable population the contest among a brutal despot, sadistic religious fanatics, and deluded rebel idealists amounts to a struggle for a vacated useless wasteland with no sign of resolution. Nope. Europe’s new citizens are there to stay, and if France is any example, their bubbling religious and ethnic sensibilities accompany them like fleas on a dog. We ourselves are experiencing a slower version of the same phenomenon (minus the latent Islamic detonator). We should brace ourselves for the spreading contagion from the South as collapsing societies like Guatemala, Honduras, etc assure a deluge of literally millions, all looking North to us at supposed salvation. Brace yourselves.

@stanleybmanly There is a well known Predator – Prey mathematical model, also known as Lotka-Volterra Equations. Sometimes it is called Wolves and Rabbits, or Snakes and Rats (~or Shiites and Sunnis). Maybe the timing for the refugees’ return can be optimized using the model.
By the way, the model results shift a lot if the prey is only a few % more lethal to the predators.

@janbb I am an engineer and might have more skills than average. I also have property and a life I consider worth protecting. If forced to leave I can assure you I would leave a surprise or two or three for the predators. I am that few % that helps the rest of the rabbits lead a normal life.

^^ I know you are. You can protect my house any time you’d like.

@LuckyGuy that reminds me.?Around 4am I had one of those sit up moments as the phrase ran through my head. “Squirrels preying on hummingbirds” I’ll google it now, if only to justify the rarity of disappointment involved with a cynical outlook.

@stanleybmanly When the temperature drops below about 10C 50F hummingbird begin to go into a torporous state. The are easy pickings for squirrels looking for a snack. That is why they need protection. Here is a recent article about it.

I had the pleasure of using a high end thermal imager (with a resolution of 0.01C) in my woods and could easily see the various nests and critters moving around day or night. An animal with a body temperature of just 0.01C, or 1/50 of a degree F different from the background is suddenly visible at any distance.

@janbb If you are ever forced by the bad guys to flee and leave your home behind just give me one hour to set it up. After encountering your place they would fear going into your neighbors’ homes.

@all – Listen to @LuckyGuy. He wanted to divert lava. He’ll stop at nothing.

As a member of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, I hesitate to equate the Trail Of Tears with the current Syrian refugee issue because of the size of the crisis. My Choctaw ancestors were required to walk about 500 miles from their Mississippi homes to the Indian Territory in Oklahoma. Approximately 2,500 died, and 10,000 arrived in their new land. The Syrian refugees number is 100 fold more and have much harder obstacles to overcome.

My answer to the question, based on current news reports is that thugs and remaining residents will take over.

OMG! @YARNLADY! Wonderful to see you.

@YARNLADY, It was not only the Choctaws that were part of the Trail of Tears. Included also were the Cherokees, Creeks, Chickasaws and Seminoles. Not the proudest moment of American history, but your comment about the relative numbers still holds.

@LuckyGuy Got one answer today. At services, the minister read the story of a Syrian refugee who is an artist. He said that when they had to leave their house, he heard it was destroyed although he still keeps the key to it in his new life. Tragic!