Isn't it too late to avoid a huge increase in mass shootings in the United States?

What if they don’t want to regulate guns more because they’d rather us keep killing each other, creating chaos and fear to allow more control?
Anytime gun control gets brought up, people just buy more guns and more ammo.
Kinda ironic that I grew up with Christmas songs like “War is over” and “Peace on earth,” and the probable best selling gift this Christmas may be guns..

No.

It’s a question of political will and citizen outrage needing to coalesce into action. Right now citizen outrage is on the way up; it has been for years and it was made worse with the Connecticut school shootings a couple years ago, and the Charleston church shootings this year, and of course the California ones yesterday.

But there is no political will to do anything, because the politicians who could do something are a bunch of cowards and in the pockets of the NRA.

If there were a serious movement to do something about guns, that the politicians had the courage to pass, then things could be controlled. But lacking the two coming together, nothing positive will occur,

WHY?? Do we blame the firearm?
People will just turn to the black market even if guns become totally banned, what makes anyone think hey if guns become illegal, I won’t commit that crime, after all I wouldn’t want to MURDER someone with a gun that wasn’t legal that wouldn’t be right.
Does that mean I am against background checks on people who want to legally get a gun of course not,should people that have been convicted of violent crime be allowed to own a firearm HELL NO.
Our long gun registry here in Canada was a total failure, and was scrapped by the Government after they spent 2 billion dollars on it and still found it not working.
And you guys in the states have a lot more guns than we Canucks have.
The way it’s going in the states maybe the old west way ,is the way,these idiots that do these types of shooting are cowards they know for the most part everyone else is unarmed and won’t be able to shoot back, maybe if everyone was armed and could fight back theses things wouldn’t happen so much.
Another thing heavy drugs are illegal, and people still have very little trouble obtaining them, what makes anyone think tighter gun control will stop this shit?
Has it stopped the drug trade?

For a second let’s forget about political feasibility or the right and wrong of regulation. If gun manufacturing and sales were outlawed overnight, wouldn’t the firearms death rate continue to climb for decades due to the sheer numbers of weapons already floating around? I think Sqeek’s answer just strengthens my argument. And of course Squeek is correct. The defect isn’t in the guns.

@stanleybmanly
I agree with you, and there will probably be a counter intuitve increase in gun violence should the government start taking guns away.

@SQUEEKY2 – it takes to things to make a shooting – a firearm and a person to shoot it.

Take either away, and and you don’t have a shooting.

(Compare this to water. You can have hydrogen by itself and oxygen by itself. Both are relatively harmless. But mix them – H2O – and you have water. Some water is good. Some water is bad, and people drown. Just like guns.)

Since we can’t kill every person, we have to go for the other side of the equation – which is the gun.

@elbanditoroso But these idiots like I said will just go to the black market to obtain the gun.
Making the gun illegal won’t work either, last I looked murdering someone is illegal and it happens all the time.
Hard drugs are illegal and they still can be obtained fairly easily, so how is gun control going to work on theses nut jobs?

@SQUEEKY2 – so your outlook is – do nothing because the bad buys will get guns anyway?

That’s a copout. That’s giving up.

And Squeeky’s other point is worth noting in an America where the population has so little memory of its own history. For example why was it that there was such a strong and ever growing effort to control firearms in the first place? Those of us old enough to remember the 50s and 60s know the standard plot in every Western mirrored the reality that a town or territory was regarded as “civilized” once the guns were restricted from the public streets. What’s happened to alter that view?

@elbanditoroso Back to the question. Isn’t the gun death rate destined to rise precipitously REGARDLESS of remedies? What possible way can there be to avoid it?

@stanleybmanly – given the politics of the US at this point, the casualty rate will continue to go up.

Let’s remember that many gun related homicides are accidents, domestic, and crimes of passion.

THOSE are the lives saved by reducing access: the 3 year old that thought her mom’s pink gun was a toy, the two year old pulling the gun out of mommy’s purse at the grocery store, the (all the other kids) who shot themselves or others with unsecured weapons because trigger lock laws make ammosexuals soil their diapers and no one gets prosecuted for killing children by proxy.

I don’t think it’s necessary to feel mass shootings are only going to increase. My opinion is we need to address what is going on in society that is causing people to snap and shoot. I will say I think it might get worse before it gets better, but I don’t think we have to be so pessimistic as to think we are going to slip off the edge into the abyss. I think we can turn it around if we wake up.

I don’t think it’s all about gun control, it has to do partly with mental Illness, but I think all too often people who would be perfectly same are pushed to a point that is overwhelming. I think environment has a tremendous amount to do with mental illness and psychotic breaks, it’s not just about being born with bad wiring in the brain. We, as a society, have to acknowledge that an individual’s experiences affects greater society. We are all connected.

I have no idea how to regulate black market guns and guns that are registered to responsible citizens that might have a psycho child or other family member that has access to them. The “war” on drugs, crime or anything else has been an abysmal failure for the most part. I agree with @JLeslie it is about getting to the root of the problem, and perhaps stricter mental health evaluations for gun owners, but one can never predict why or when someone might go off the deep end. A start, but this would only work for those that are attempting to purchase weapons legally would be to refuse permits to those with any history of domestic violence, animal abuse, child abuse, assault, or other, either convictions or registered complaints.

This would only be the tiniest tip of this monster ice berg though, the real problem lies in the amount and ease of procuring illegal weapons. Gun free zones do nothing to protect innocent people from the deranged. Nut case shooters or terrorists are not going to honor gun free zones, infact, they are the perfect targets for their massacres. Putting armed security in county and government buildings, on campuses and hospitals etc. is one solution, and as much as I do not like the idea it certainly would deter many.

@Coloma I wasn’t even thinking in terms of stricter mental health evaluations for gun owners. I’m thinking about safe neighborhoods for children to grow up in, adults being able to earn a fair wage, reasonable work schedules, values taught from the age of little about helping each other, showing respect to each other. A little less me, and a little more we.

It sure looks that way. If people weren’t so gullible as to believe in a “god” and all that is promised in religions, I think a whole lot less of this crap would be going down. It is absolutely ridiculous!!! I’m amazed mankind hasn’t outgrown/outthought it.

Look, the incidence of gun deaths is certain to follow the pathology of any other epidemic. We first become aware of the outbreak, and cases of infection multiply even as measures are taken to counter the disease.

The way the mass shooting epidemic advances is distinct for 2 reasons. First, the country is flooded with the potential “pathogens” which usually persist in their “benign” form, and next, no significant action has been established to counter the rising incidence of infection. The question is merely about the mortality levels necessary to instigate mitigating correctives. We haven’t yet reached those levels, but we most certainly shall. It’s merely a matter of time and funerals

A point to remember, no matter how hard it may be: Guns don’t kill people; people kill people.

@kritiper I don’t think we can ignore that it’s a combination of the two.

@JLeslie Agreed and if I were more awake I would have delved deeper into the societal and economic issues that I believe are important factors as well, along with the sheer mass volume of the population. When you have over crowding, lack of resources, extreme competition in any species of animal you will see more mental illness and violence erupting.

@kritiper that inane slogan is for people without a hint of the sense required to recognize that people kill people most easily and most frequently with guns. To go back to the epidemic, it’s equivalent to saying AIDS doesn’t kill people. It’s people who spread disease. GUNS, LIKE THE VIRUS, ARE DESIGNED TO KILL PEOPLE.

@JLeslie True, But people without guns who want to kill other people will find a way. Would you outlaw knives, cars, water, plastic and hands (for suffocation/choking), etc.? When/Where would the list end?

@stanleybmanly Please don’t shoot me. I am only the messenger! And I did say it would be a hard concept for some of you to come to grips with. But, be that as it may, there it is.

Technology will always be there to enable people to be killers one way or another. That cat is out of tbe bag. Responsible gun owners don’t leave their weapons out when not being used. I don’t buy the “access” issue some have when there are good quick open safes and lockup devices. Most of these shootings are planned in advance so I don’t think much regulation will help. Arming citizens is not really the best answer either, neither is stepping up physical security everywhere. Big brother is already watching and eventually the technology will be able to thwart some of this but ultimately finding ways to remove the motivation will likely yield the best results. Answering how we do that is going to get complicated.

A mass shooting is generally defined as 4 or more people injured or killed by gunfire.

Avoid? Thus far during 2015, there have been more mass shootings in the U.S. than days. The U.S. accounts for about 5% of the world’s population yet 31% of mass shootings. A whopping 20 days of 2015 had 4 or more mass shootings in a single day.

The Avoid-Ship sailed long ago.

Oh boy, you know what terrorists and criminals think of gun free zones!?
Oh GOODY a shooting gallery.

We should definitely ban guns completely. That would solve the problem almost instantly, just like it did for alcohol and drugs. (And prostitution and gambling, too, of course.)

While we’re at it we should probably make murder illegal. I can’t imagine why no one has done that before now. It’s unconscionable! We need to do it for the children.

@kritiper as soon as there’s an epidemic of mass knifings, mass stranglings or even mass classroom hit and runs we can get back to those other weapons. Those are lame examples and those proffering them KNOW IT. People responsible for mass murders rarely consider those other death implements, and I would appreciate your comments on whether or not you believe it is actually a bias against guns that leads us to ignore whatever statistics exist on mass strangulations.

See my first answer here link

@stanleybmanly Ya know what? If people killed all the people, there would be no problem with people killing people! People are going to do (and kill) what and whom they’re going to, whether people like it or not. It’s just part and parcel of the beastly gig.

Even though guns make it easier, blaming them is actually a cop out. Guns did not cause this. I don’t think people like to acknowledge that other humans have that much hate, rage or susceptibility. Take the guns away and those things will still be there + a potential host of other issues from leaving large populations defenseless.

It is not the guns that are the reason for mass shootings in the US or around the globe. When you have people who feel they have miserable lives, and want to escape, and feel they are escaping to oblivion but do not want to just commit suicide, they figure they can get the cops or other authority figures to do it for them, and they can make a bunch of people miserable on the way out.

@ARE you kidding me It isn’t ABOUT blaming guns. It’s more about crazy or frustrated people in a land of 310 million civilian guns. If you take away the guns, the crazy people may remain, but the shootings will certainly vanish. It is asinine to pretend that mass shootings are not about the EASY availability of guns, the most efficient, simple, reliable, foolproof method of slaughtering masses of people in the shortest amount of time. Your position implies that the fact that these are gun deaths is some sort of coincidence.

@stanleybmanly People certainly want to blame them and they do. Crazy will manifest, guns or not. Religious nut jobs who are intent on causing harm will find a way. Guns are not the most efficient, they are the path of least resistance. Take them away and bombs are next on the list. What would you suggest we do about it?

If bombs were anywhere near as efficient and reliable and AVAILABLE , we might just have a bomb epidemic. The minute someone can estimate 310 million bombs in the country we might have a problem. The obvious and blinding truth is the reason we alone are plagued with a deluge of gun deaths is because it is just plain too easy to shoot people here, plain & simple. If an arsonist sets fire to a building and a dozen people are incinerated, it isn’t a cop out to to claim the “the fire was a problem”.

@stanleybmanly did you forget Oklahoma city? It’s a fundamental perception of where the core of the problem lies. I don’t think it’s the implement but rather the agency behind it. That is the core of the problem. If people don’t want to kill, then they don’t. Shouldn’t we be focused on correcting the motivation? That’s the hard but direct path, it’s just uphill…and sadly politically incorrect—something I simply refuse to play along with. Millions of americans live alongside millions of other americans with millions of guns and peacefully for the most part. Firearms don’t get up, walk around and choose to commit these actions. We can ban them but the problem remains. your position is like saying instead of treating a social or mental problem we’ll just lock it in a padded room.

If everything really worked like what you said, @stanleybmanly, then yes, I agree that mass shooting would decrease or even vanish. But don’t you think that other things can be used as weapons? Knives, bats, scissors…? Don’t you think they can kill?

I live in a country where guns are completely outlawed and most people don’t even know what a real gun looks like, but does it stop the killing? Once in a while there are people brutally killed, sometimes the number of death can be considered equal to a mass shooting (not as much as an American mass shooting though, yeah it’s harder to kill as much without a gun). Here we have something you can call “mass stabbing” if you like. Not to mention there are cases that involve a person carrying a knife around and just stab anyone nearby that pisses them off. That is to say, as long as there are violent people, there will be dead people, no matter what weapons they have in hand, and violent people are everywhere.

I’ve heard it said, And I have said it myself: It is Impossible to legislate a society to safety. There are simply too many firearms in circulation to even delude ourselves into thinking that passing more legislation will in any way even by a tiny bit make anyone any safer. It simply won’t happen. Society’s valuation of life and de-glorification of the ‘thug life’, embracing peace, and eschewing decisiveness that certain powerful people like to encourage (eg. Al Sharpton et. all). Stuff that takes decades to accomplish. It took decades for these attitudes of low value for human life and dignity to permeate our world. It will take longer to change cultural paradigms that can be traced to unintended consequences of the ‘war on poverty’ where the hand-up became the hand-out and became a lifestyle for many because it gave power to people instead of the intention to helping the poor to support themselves. Drugs and Vices of all sorts while pre-dating the program have becoming so powerful and available and lucrative create insane opportunity and to affect the power structure all the way to the top. Not limited to just the United States.

The original question asks about simply firearms. and my quick answer is No, It’s not too late to stop mass shootings, but it will not come from Washington. It has to come from the people to say ‘No More’ and be ready to really mean it and do something on their own. It will be unbelievably difficult and will require many many people to completely change their lives, but miracles happen. I happen to believe in miracles and stand ready to try and help make one happen. It will take jillions of people like me to make it happen and not turn away when it gets hard or ugly. People will die. That’s a reality. Some people will not turn their back on violence (guns, knives, rocks, rutabaga’s ) These are the ones who perpetuate the sick inner core and will have to change or die. Simple as that.

Obviously this is just one person thinking, and I can’t hope to think about all the ‘yeah buts’ but I am so tired of hyperviolence being mistaken for an overabundance of a commodity. A gun to me is a tool. It may as well be a hammer or paint gun. Won’t do a thing unless I pick it up and hit a nail or paint a shed.

I have had guns all my life, and never has a single one left my house and went out and shot anyone. I completely reject the notion that they are ‘designed to kill people’. It’s the Shooter that needs to change. There is no way to sin without knowing you about to sin. It is a choice. I choose to shoot these people. Until that is gone, there will be people shooting people.

Excellent answer @majorrich and yet we still have people believing if we make all guns illegal all will be well with the world.
They will just turn to the black market.

Another oft used adage comes to mind: “When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” It would be so nice if we lived in a perfect world, free of violence and hate. The ideal, civilized, utopia. But humanity, on the whole, is not civilized. We can only dream.

I’m looking for a question I opined on either yesterday or the day before where I found the number and frequency of multiple shootings in Detroit alone was some obscenely high number. When extrapolated to several other cities I figured we could and probably have multiple homicides in spades every day of the year. The question is either gone or I’m just mis-remembering answering such a question where I was surprised by the data I was beginning to see. Am I all wet? or did such a question exist. This seems to be kind of a rehash of that one.

My premise is that it’s too late to make them illegal, and that it doesn’t matter what supposed remedy is proposed. The death rate is going to climb and do so inexorably

Through the lens of my television, biased one way or another, the pattern I am seeing is an awful lot of these mass shootings lately involve or are influenced in one way or another by a middle eastern sounding name. Don’t know if this is a universal truth, but that is what is being funneled through my set. Is the media starting to broadcast a Trumpian case? I would never have imagined this.

I want to know a little something, how come with America and it’s love for the firearm, NO one in any of these cases was packing and could return fire on these idiots??
And maybe ,just maybe if that was the case the outcome would have been much different.

You’re right. The average guy hasn’t yet figured out that America is now Dodge City. It’s coming Squeek.

@SQUEEKY2 you know the answer: they were following the rules and left them at home or in their cars.

@stanleybmanly It’s tough when one wants his or her cake and wants to eat it as well. In your words, “America is now Dodge City.” But America has always been “Dodge City,” so nothing is new. Welcome!
But keep this in mind: If guns are a problem now, just wait until antibiotics become absolutely useless. The gun issue will no longer be of major concern, with you or anyone else, when that shit fully hits the fan!

@kritiper or when simple resources we all take for granted like sound bridges, roads, dams, locks, pipelines,sewage and power distribution start failing en masse through misappropriation of funds, neglect and a loss of knowledge by attrition. Our infrastructure is crumbling and nobody wants to even acknowledge that we have a herd of elephants in the room. We have done great things with technology, it’s just held up by a rusty needle.

@ARE_you_kidding_me That’s right. There are more pressing needs to worry about than who has a gun and who doesn’t.

My friends…......
We got trouble
Right here in River City
With a capital “T”
And that rhymes with “G”
And that stands for

Currently, there are over 7.5 BILLION people in this world, a world that can only really support 500 thousand. Line up all of the people on Earth, pick 14 at a time, let one go free and shoot the rest. See? Guns can be practical!

@kritiper Where did you come up with the half million number? Is that a fact? Interesting. The numbers are stagaring, and then there are people that still think nothing of having 4,5, 6, 7, or 19 kids. lol

500,000 is a ridiculously low number. If you spread them out there probably won’t be 2 every 100 miles. How are you going to make babies? Lol.

@JLeslie There’d have to be like a Johnny Appleseed guy, traveling around re-seeding. lol

LOL. John Appleseed. That’s hysterical!

@Coloma I forget who they are exactly, but they erected a stone monument near Atlanta, Georgia, with the info stated thereon.

@JLeslie Might be kind of hard to start making babies, but once started, they could do it any where!

@Kritiper America may have always been Dodge City, but there was a MARKED appreciation for the majority of my life by the overwhelming balance of the population that a place DEFINED by ready and unrestricted access to firearms was deemed neither civilized nor desirable. WE HAVE ALREADY LIVED THROUGH THE ERA OF GUN TOTIN BOOTHILL OVERFLOW. Those who presume the revival of this romantic aspect of our history beneficial can rejoice in the fact that we are well on our way to its repetition. To me, the argument is so absurd (as are all the other defenses for the shortcomings you list) that it’s difficult not to conclude that we are now waist deep and accelerating with the collective dumbing down of the country.

The one thing convenient for a world wide population of half a million is that denizens of that world could probably waste and pollute to their hearts’ content.