General Question

Ragdoll1015's avatar

Can I be sued for commissions that were approved by three managers and already paid?

Asked by Ragdoll1015 (16points) December 6th, 2015

I was hired for a position in Sales and was never given a job description nor trained. I accepted the position of Internet Sales Manager because I was doing the job for free for two months because my manager asked for help. I worked the internet based on the verbal instruction of my Sales Manager. I was never given a job description, formally trained, never assisted or monitored. I was left alone with simple verbal orders. I was paid by commissions and verbally told what was acceptable to claim for commissions by my Sales Manager. Although I asked for training continuously, None was given. All instructions and work demands were given to me verbally. After a year of making my commission sheets, I was called into an unscheduled meeting alone with the owner of the company in a conference room who aggressively accused me of stealing money through my commissions. As I sat there confused, I stated I do not understand and before I can finish speaking I was told to “be quiet and do not speak, he (the owner) is doing all the talking and he didn’t want to hear anything from me”. I sat quietly while he pointed out things he said were mistakes on my commission sheets. He claimed they were done on purpose. I was called into that meeting alone with just the owner who never had anything to do with me before who now was threatening me and accusing me. I asked if he would show me the proper way of doing the work and he briefly explained how he had expected the sheets to be done. I apologized and stated I was never explained to do them the way he asked and moving forward I would. He said he doesn’t care, he wants me to pay the money back and my manager had known there was a problem with my commission sheets for three months. I asked “why didn’t anyone tell me they were wrong and show me the right way to do them because I honestly did as my manager verbally told me and I had never done them before? ” I also stated that I gave copies to the Sales Manager and Controller and he (the owner) was also given a copies. How can three Managers check my work and approve it for a year and never once tell me something was wrong or train me to do things right? Can they now demand this money back? I am so confused! The harrassment continued until I had a breakdown at work and was placed on medication from the stress. Going into work was taking its toll because after the meeting they continued to “investigate” me as if I were a criminal and treat me as if I purposely did my commission sheets wrong. Each morning I had to medicate in order to resist a panic/anxiety attack at work. I could not work under these conditions any more. I resigned from my postion and I was told I could not leave the building until I speak to the owner and pay the money back. My arm was grabbed and I pulled my arm away. The owner called me and left a message stating he would give me a chance to come to a financial agreement and pay the money back but i cannot just walk away from owing this money. I am being threatened with a law suit. I refused to be harrassed so I was advised by HR to email a response. I emailed and explained all that took place as I explained here. I explained I was never aware that the way I was doing them was wrong and that noone ever sat with me to explain they were wrong. If they knew I was doing them wrong, why pay me and continue to let me go on for three months after they suspected the sheets were wrong. Please help!

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

9 Answers

zenvelo's avatar

Well, they can sue, someone can sue for just about anything. But if you can explain to a judge just as you explained it above, with approvals of your commission sheets and the fact they paid you, they won’t get it back from you.

marinelife's avatar

I believe that @zenvelo is right.

The owner is probably just sabre-rattling, though. It would be very costly for them to sue you. Do not enter into any financial agreements with them or negotiations on your own.

If you cannot afford legal representation, ask instead for binding arbitration. Do not talk to them without others being present.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

You can be sued for “parting your hair on the wrong side”, will the win not likely. Get a lawyer!

CWOTUS's avatar

Obviously, very few of us know the rules of the German employment and legal systems, but your presentation, though somewhat breathless, seems valid.

I would propose that you document (with appropriate paragraph breaks and footnotes as needed!) the timeline of events, and include as much supporting documentation as possible. The fact that no good documentation was provided to you in the form of instruction manuals, training courses or policy instructions must be a point in your favor, though of course it is impossible for you to prove the negative case. What you can include are your repeated requests for training and direct instruction, by date, and an accurate account of whatever response you received (if any).

I would also recommend that you not bring up the issue of your nervous state and medical attention / treatment until you (perhaps) countersue for damage to professional reputation, loss of employment and libel and / or slander, if and as applicable.

It is quite clear that you have been mistreated, but that’s not the main problem for you now. You need to destroy the claims that have been made against you by showing the good faith that you exhibited by doing the job you were asked to do – and more than you were trained and hired to do in the first place – and that your submissions for payment of commission were “according to the rules as you understood them.” If you have records of the supervisory approvals of your commission claims, then by all means include that. One would certainly expect that the payroll department at the firm would require adequate controls on the monies being paid, and as long as your payment claims are consistent and follow the rules as you understood them, and no one ever gainsaid them, this should militate in your favor. If you have pay stubs, by all means collect them and enter them into the record.

Part of the reason for leaving aside your medical condition during this phase of your long game is because that could also be used against you. It could perhaps be claimed that you were “unstable”, “medically unfit”, “hiding your true condition”, etc. as a way to further impugn your standing. Don’t let that happen. Keep your medical condition out of this phase of the game.

Once you have broken the case against you, I would further recommend that you countersue for high damages. At this point it would be fair to enter into the record the effect that these accusations have had on your health. This way, instead of your medical condition having a bearing on “your bad behavior” (as the owner sees it), you can prove instead that HIS bad behavior, in addition to costing you a healthy and satisfying work environment and livable income, has also take an adverse toll on your health.

Good luck to you.

cazzie's avatar

This is in Germany? I think you have some form of Government Labour Department like what we had in New Zealand. Yes. and here is something from their website. http://www.bmas.de/EN/Our-Topics/Labour-Law/bullying-at-work.html

http://www.bmas.de/DE/Startseite/start.html

I once had to contact the Labour Department in New Zealand when an employer suddenly took it upon himself to remove sick pay he had paid me from my final check. It was simply my withheld vacation pay that was owed me. I won the case and it cost me nothing.

BosM's avatar

Get a lawyer to advocate on your behalf. If this occurred in the US it could very well be considered a hostile work environment as it appears you may have been harassed.

You did what you were told, there were no “rules” documented or explained to you. If your manager signed off on your commission sheets then what you were paid shouldn’t be an issue. If they made rules known to you at that meeting with the President then you need to follow those from that point forward. Do not communicate with them without an attorney assisting you. Good luck

Cruiser's avatar

Without anything in writing and absent any formal training plus a track record of being paid commissions based upon the records you tendered to the company to get paid, IMO the owner does not have a leg to stand on with his lawsuit….unless he can prove intentional wrong doing on your part which you say there was none on your behalf. Seek legal counsel and I myself would be tempted to counter sue for harassment.

msh's avatar

This is a situation that you will come out of better off than you believe. Here are a few ideas to add onto the excellent ones written above.
If they (the company) say that you did not follow the directions of employment, ask to see the written rules and guideline materials. Then ask if they have your disclaimer where you signed that you had received these materials, and that you understood the directive materials, and then you legally signed off that you were then responsible for your work and company directives. They will be unable to do so. Not good for their efforts!
When they are not able to produce them, and you have your pay-stubs (as you should always keep until the stars burn out) to prove that there were no problems, nor any written reviews, evaluations, nor complaints, that were signed by you plus their payroll clerk, your supervisory contacts, or the business owner of any problems- then they do not have anything to base your performance upon.
Written directives and not being supplied with anything that you were to Legally Sign off on, nor a copy of said documentation on payroll or otherwise, these are your best options in your defense.
Also, this taking you off to reprimand you, By Yourself, tells me that he has done this before. No witnesses. I believe he was hoping that you would be angry enough to quit. Therefore, you did not react as he had hoped. That factor may be why you had the sudden and intense scrutiny by those working with or around you. Further investigations? Seriously? Please!
In the future, always take some type of recording device with you into any meeting. Since you were not given any written handbook stating to the opposite, it is perfectly acceptable for you to openly record. Don’t ask, just do it.
-Is there insurance of any kind offered to you? Or is this type of coverage offered under your country’s health plans?
Did that business take any money out of your pay for taxes? Because once that paycheck is signed and cashed – it should count as a legal contract, or in lieu of one. (Because if there was a problem they signed, you cashed- it cleared.) Ask your lawyer.
-Did this occur at the end of their business year, section, or tax responsibilities? Perhaps he did not wish to have to pay for someone in addition to his yearly records.
-Were you on any kind of ‘probationary’ hiring period?
-Were you ever offered any days off for illness, etc., or were you paid for all you did
for the exact days you worked?
-How did you check in and out every day? Sign in sheet, time machine? – You can ask to have them prove any problems with money by the dates. See if the dates they name match up to a Pattern of when they say items occurred. Patterns being the key to look for.
This is a horrible thing that they have done to you. I am so very sorry that it happened to you. It isn’t fair, and it is not right.
Unfortunately, it is the downside to being out in the wonderful world of work! Blech!
You did just fine. Better and longer than most would have! Truly!
You took on a tough situation and did amazingly well, using your own smarts and common sense as your guide. That does make a big difference and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise! There are many who do not possess those skills, and wait for someone else to take charge or think and reason. You have excellent talent in taking the initiative to find out, establish your work schedule and duties, and then go on to complete them.
Then to add on that you continued to take on additional work tasks- that is a ‘sterling’ on an application and/or resume.
If you do not have the funding, is there a way for you to access legal council?
I believe that they are not going to follow through with these shady operational practices and threats. However, you need to have someone get things worked out and down on paper in order to make sure this type of thing Never comes back to you. You will have proof.
Do not Ever, Ever feel bad that you felt stressed enough to have this effect your health and well-being. Please hear me. This is an example of a person who was put into an intolerable position by people with absolutely no business nor personal ethics whatsoever! And you survived! A little bruised and shaken up- but that will fade away. You did well, and you are just fine.
You will come out of this with more knowledge about employment and employers, and you will never face anything again without remembering how businesses are Not to act. You do not have to stay at a place that treats you so poorly, ever again. You are worth more than that.
Go on to better places, and even though it may be some of the hardest thoughts you have to overcome: if you start to get upset- just stop for a moment and Breathe. Be gentle, but logical with yourself. These new fellow workers aren’t those who misused your talents and abilities. These administrators are not those you dealt with before. Just breathe, don’t jump with the gut-reaction you had to use as a defense reaction for survival before. It’s not the same. You are not the same. You are better.
You have experience, you’ve seen the absolute worst- now look for the absolute best – for you. And don’t hide your talents and initiative away in a dead-end ‘safe’ job. It will kill your soul.
I believe those responces, above here, gave you excellent advice, and I’d listen to them.
And get back up – even at a current job, use the excellent skills that you have and grab up more to be even better! Businesses Love skills and experience. Plug them into stating the why you would be better to do a job than others. Skills and experience.
Remember- you are fine. Work battle-scars fade. You’re Not there any more. You do not have to ever take being treated badly by anyone that you work with, in order to make that particular business be successful.
Breathe and believe in you! You’ve seen the worst, now you’ll know what not to put up with wherever you go. :) ( End of Sermon….)

Response moderated (Spam)

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.

This question is in the General Section. Responses must be helpful and on-topic.

Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther