Does anyone actually want to help the poor, or is it all just rationalizing?

I think what you’re doing is completely awesome. I can say that I do care, and panhandlers definitely don’t scare me. Portland has a kind of alarming rate of homelessness for a city this size and I always find myself wishing that I could do more than what I’m able to most of the time. If people only stopped to listen to some of their stories, genuinely, and to hear what some of the people have gone through… it would change a lot of people’s minds, I think. Or it wouldn’t for certain individuals, since I know a lot won’t ever see it from a perspective other than “lazy bum!”, but I hope that mindset completely disappears with the younger generations.

Forgive me for not having time to fully review your project but I perceive it to be similar to a non-profit I hope to get off the ground in 2016. I too believe it is more than just ”throwing money at it”, you have to change the mindset of the people and give than and show them other avenues that are more lucrative and offer more dignity; if you can do that, I bet they will find panhandling less appealing. I think any program needs to go beyond just panhandlers, but those who ”sign” at off ramps and intersections as well as the homeless.

When people get involved in homeless or activism of the downtrodden it is often for self-gain, directly or glancing. Someone high-profile or deep-pocketed will toss money into a cause if it gains them favor with the press, they get to put their name on it, or it is very advantageous at tax time. People say they don’t want to see homeless encampments, be accosted by people begging for change or seeing some woman/man staring them down while trying to get on or off the freeway but few seem to want to actually get in there with solutions because they usually are high time intensive. They certainly don’t want anything with the label of a homeless shelter near their homes or business. They want the problem to go away but are unwilling to contribute towards actions or processes that will help it go away.

i admire what you’re doing. I think a lot of people make excuses for why they can’t or won’t help the homeless.
I keep subway gift cards in my car and when I have time I will sit and talk. It appears from some of the conversations I’ve had not many people do that. I had one guy say, “thanks for talking to me. Not many people will even look at me.”
I was so worried because he had a dog and a wagon and was hitchiking in the rain and it was getting dark. I had my grandkids with me and couldn’t give him a ride. His sleeping bag was soaked and his tarp had leaked. When I got home I realized we had a brand new tarp I had bought for firewood so I took it, a new sleeping bag and a change of clothes back out and he was still trying to get a ride. I barely slept that night worrying about him. I hope he made it to his destination safely.
To actually be proactive and help people earn a living like you’re doing is an amazing gift.
I don’t know if you’re spiritual at all but you ARE gospel.

I think what you are doing is very important. Empowering the marginalised is no easy feat, but it is essential, ever more so in the current times. I wish you the best. If I can help with my crafting skills of soap making, let me know. I often feel like the little match girl, sitting with my soaps asking passers by for a few bob.

The problem with helping the needy is that the more you help them, the more you want to. It becomes a wonderful addiction.
by the way: I adore Utah Phillips. You gotta love his story about moose turd pie.

Love is not patronizing and charity isn’t about pity, it is about love. Charity and love are the same—with charity you give love, so don’t just give money but reach out your hand instead

@filmfann That story was told by Utah Phillips? I heard it from a storyteller in the Adirondacks – loved it!

Clearly “compassionate Conservatism” is no longer a brand that sells. I think Bernie Sanders cares and others of us do to a greater or lesser extent.

Your project sounds wonderful.

I commend your efforts to provide for the homeless/poor but I cannot rally behind your efforts as noble as they are, that essentially foster and encourage homeless to continue to live the life as a homeless person. You are offering classes and musical instruments to your constituents with the goal of making them prosperous street “buskers” and better panhandlers.

My main reason for not throwing gobs of cash your way is that I have on many occasions offered a homeless person a job at my business and none took me up on it as that would require them to become part of the system and be accounted for and jeopardize their ability to get welfare benies.

I would gladly give you money if you presented a program that offers the homeless a clear way out of being homeless instead of teaching them more effective ways to continue to be homeless.

@Cruiser And that answers that. If panhandlers were capable of working 9–5 at McDonalds, they wouldn’t be panhandling. But then, you’re well aware of that. As I suspected, you’re just moving the goalposts to avoid having to put your money where your mouth is. “Oh, sure, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but not that way. Now, if you opened up a Chipotle franchise, I’d sure as shootin’ support that! But playing music and producing arts and crafts is just panhandling in another form.”

I suspect that even if I did open a Chipotle franchise for the specific purpose of hiring panhandlers, you’d move the goalposts again and demand that it be a stock brokerage.

@SmashTheState No I am fully aware that there are legions of people working at McDonalds and damn grateful for that job that if they are in that situation that gets them off the street. You are the one who is too dependent on the bullhorn in your hands to champion a street life for the homeless who depend on you to make sure they can have access to freebies and Government cheese and not having to work a 40 hour work week.

A close friend had a cousin who was homeless by choice for 2 years and running refused money, clean clothes and a cell phone because he knew it would all be stolen from him. He had no job, no responsibilities, no taxes and freedom from sunrise to sunset….fucking happiest man I ever met. Why on earth would you or I ever get in the way of his quest to sponge off of me or depend on you??

And there we have it, folks. A conservative helpfully providing the rationalization for why he tells panhandlers to “get a job” and then sneers just as loudly when they actually do go out and become self-reliant. It really is all about schadenfreude and class hatred.

@filmfann The problem with helping the needy is that the more you help them, the more you want to. It becomes a wonderful addiction.
That is a problem with any segment of the population that gains a benefit, it can become addicting, be it farm subsidies, free lunch at school, free use of work vehicles after work, etc. Some of the homeless actually want to go back to work, but they have a huge mountain in front of them. They have no place to get proper rest, no place to secure work tools or clothing. Many have no income to do the laundromat thing to keep a uniform clean if it wasn’t stolen first. That is before you get to the basics like being able to shower at least every other day. How many employers do you think would truthfully hire someone who lives out of a shopping cart, has no bank account, permanent address, or conceivable way to be snappy and presentable every day? Some of the homeless want to work but they need retraining as their jobs got automated away or shipped overseas. They need stability, a place they can come back to at the end of the day, rest, clean up, cook a meal, wash their clothes, secure uniforms or tools from theft reasonably. If you are working on surviving the day everyday it is hard to think about what suit you will wear to the office. The reason why some get hooked on handouts, is that people are quicker to give a handout than a roof and some walls, or some training that may take months or a couple of years. A bowl of beans and rice is cheaper per person so that gets the nod more than things that would actually work. If the odds are against you so much as to be a mountain but the handouts are like lollipops, then you go for the lollipops.

@Cruiser “You are offering classes and musical instruments to your constituents with the goal of making them prosperous street “buskers” and better panhandlers.”

I know making asinine statements is kind of what you specialize in, but this has to be one of the most asinine statements I’ve seen even from you.

Busking is panhandling? Seriously? The busking musician provides his craft freely, for the enjoyment of all within earshot. If someone finds value in the music they offer him some monetary compensation. Shit, that sounds like the free market in action to me.

Or is music only worthy of monetary consideration if it’s being performed in gigantic stadiums, by a group of performers contractually-bound to each other and incorporated as an LLC, with a nice little™ mark next to their name, and an army of managers, lawyers, accountants and merchandisers behind them?

@Hypocrisy_Central

Well said. We (meaning society) like to talk a lot about teaching a man to fish, but it’s a lot easier and convenient to just give the man a fish, and, well, surely someone will come along and teach the man to fish*

(*Though chances are the man already knows how to fish and just needs someone to give him a pole and offer him access to a fishing spot.)

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will drain the fish stocks to extinction. ~

Holy Smokes Bullwinkle, @Darth_Algar and I have something we agree on? I better check to see if Earth has not shifted orbit.

@RedDeerGuy1 Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will drain the fish stocks to extinction.
Then I guess he better be placed in a part of the ocean where the fish outnumber him 500 to one and make him fish with a pole and not a trawler with a mile long net. ~~