Why does it seem like people are going out of their way to buy pit bull dogs in the last several years?

That might seem to also go along with people’s resentment of being told what to do. Sure, a pit bull might be dangerous to other’s but don’t you be telling me what dog I should or shouldn’t own. Now I’ll get that pit bull just to show you up, or piss you off or scare the hell out of you! So there! (I think it is the owners who make dogs mean, no matter what the breed.)

Same reason chihuahuas are all over the place now. People see them more and realize it’s what they want.

I don’t want a chihuahua!

@kritiper, this came up because on another thread a jelly told us that a pit bull had attacked and killed a family member’s baby while the baby was sleeping. She would have been 2 on Christmas. The grandmother was the owner of the dog. The dog had not shown any aggression before that.
I agree that many owners get pits because they want mean dogs, so they treat them badly. But, on the other hand, those dogs were bred specifically to fight and kill. It’s in their genetic makeup.

People get pit bulls because they want a tough, bad-ass dog.

Just like they buy SUVs because they want a tough, bad-ass vehicle.

Impressionable dim-witted people are easily led by the nose.

When they don’t want them, my oldest son becomes a foster for the unwanted dogs.

What is the most common reason for giving them up @Tropical_Willie?

Back in the 70’s it seems like Doberman’s were popular with the same people when pit bulls were uncommon.

I think both are highly intelligent and loyal breeds that make excellent pets if the owner has the time and knowledge to raise and train the dogs properly. Unfortunately, that’s the exception and not the norm.

In the last several years I think it’s also part of the ‘thug mentality’. It’s cool to scare people and cool to give people the impression that you’re skirting, if not downright breaking, the law. It’s cool to look menacing, have a menacing vehicle and a menacing dog.
Unfortunately having a dog that is a menace seems more likely outcome, and not cool in the least.

When you look at animal shelter sites or animal shelter and rescue pages on Facebook, the majority of dogs are pits or pit mixes. It’s sad.

One of the local towns around here passed a law about 15 years ago that if you owned a pit bull, you had to have a million dollar insurance policy on it. Immediately their local shelter filled up with pit bulls. A friend of mine adopted one. She had cats and the pit bull was the sweetest thing. The pit bull was deathly afraid of one of her cats, and if the cat was in the hallway, the pit bull wouldn’t even pass by. The pit bull wouldn’t look the cat in the eye, either. It was funny.

My neighbor has a pit bull and one of my cats attacked it. From that day forward, the cat would chase the pit bull out of the area when she saw it.

I see all these sweet looking pit bulls on the rescue pages on Facebook. I am not in a position to own a dog, but if I were, I’d be torn about owning a pit bull, especially with a baby or child in the house.

@Dutchess_III They got to big, they needed to much room and the needed more exercise.

Most of the animals were from owners in Boston and suburbs. From apartment dwellers that had never owned a dog before.

People adopt them and then find they can be a little bull headed and once a Pit Bull doesn’t see you a the pack leader you have a problem. You have to be firm with them and they have to know their place. Plus there is the problem that people will move into places that don’t allow Pit Bulls. People adopt these dogs and don’t take into consideration that moving with them may be a problem down the road. And one of the reasons is because they are very intimidating.

Neighbors in an apartment building may move out and it makes taking them in less desirable for renters and so management companies may allow only certain breeds or dog size so they don’t have problems renting. It can also present a problem for maintenance people to care for your apartment in an emergency if you aren’t home.
And under exercised dog can cause destruction. People think a big yard is all it takes to exercise a big dog. All dogs need walks or to be played with and bigger dogs need exercise the most. I had a neighbor with 2 large dogs. They looked healthy and happy because their owners took them running twice a day. They were both young and fit and one would run with the dogs in the morning and the other in the afternoon. I remember thinking those dogs have people who deserve them and they probably will age out in their home and not end up in a pound.
I love large dogs but I know I don’t have the stamina, nor strength to give it what it needs. People too often put their own wants and needs without considering what a dog needs to be healthy of mind and body. They often think its’ enough to just save the dog from death but they require lots of work. Love and food and shelter by itself isn’t going to make a dog a happy and well adjusted. It needs more than that.

”...once a Pit Bull doesn’t see you a the pack leader you have a problem.” As far as I’m concerned that is a BIG problem, having to “prove” to a deadly dog that you’re more deadly than they are. Too many people assume that proving that they are the alpha leader requires abusing the dog, physically.
So let’s say you convince it, somehow, that you’re the alpha leader. Maybe he decides he’s number 2. What happens with the rest of the world? What happens with the baby sleeping in the other room?

We briefly had a shepherd mix once. My husband said a co worker of his was getting rid of his dog. Maybe I didn’t pay enough attention as to why.
As it turns out, the coworker kept the dog in a long, narrow run. The dog would get so bored it would toss its food bowl over and over and over again. Sometimes the co-worker, in order to prove he was alpha, would turn the hose on the dog, who was trapped in this pen.

Well, we got him, named him Black Jack. From the beginning I could sense it was not good. Just not good. Most of the time he was fine, but there were those handful of other times when….I sensed warnings.
For example, he had fleas, and when I’d try to spray him with flea spray he’d growl low in his throat.
It all came to a head about a month after we got him. He was on the couch. I told him to get off the couch.
He ignored me.
I grabbed his collar to pull him off the couch….he growled and snapped at me. He wasn’t playing.
I stepped back in shock, and without even thinking about it, I came wide and hard and fast and slapped the ever lovin’ shit out of him, right in the face (think volleyball serve. The hardest serve you’ve ever seen.) I’ve never hit a dog like that before, or since.
Still angry, I then grabbed his collar again and pulled him off the couch. He grudgingly came this time.
I herded him to the back door, opened it and told him to go outside.
He stopped, looked back and growled at me.
I literally kicked him out the door.

I was 8 months pregnant and had a two year old in the house.

I called animal control, and that was that.

I’m pretty sure I won the Big Dick contest with that dog, but the babies hadn’t, and, of course, never would.

I do not ever want a dog who I have to prove to that I’m the boss. I just am.

Probably to prove pits really are nice dogs. (Said with some sarcasm). Sure, pit bulls can be very sweet, but there is no getting around they are in the top ten for causing serious harm or even death. Some people seem hell bent on wanting to show all the “haters” that people should not be so negative about pit bulls. I’m one of those people who doesn’t want the mean breeds anywhere near me if I can help it. I’m afraid of dogs in general, so pit bulls, German Shephards, Doberman, no thank you. I do believe they have a mean/anger gene. Just like scientists believe they have isolated anger genes in humans.

They are not in the top 10. They are number one. Rotties are a very distant number 2. Here is a chart showing the stats.

Deaths:
Pits: 233
Rotties: 81

The really interesting thing to consider is that this is based on stats from 1882 until 2012. Pits didn’t even become popular until only about 20 years ago. To put that in perspective is mind blowing.

GSD are on that list too. Until we wound up with Dakota I was pretty sure I never wanted a GSD. But when the time comes, well, I’m not so sure any more.

My own chart there is annoying to me. It talks about Pits and Rotts being perfectly fine unless they “aren’t trained right. ” I call BS. If their natural instinct is to attack and maim then you are supposed to train it out of them. I don’t want a dog whose first instinct is to attack, especially when it comes to little children and babies.

The guy we got Dakota from busted his ass and spent a lot of money trying to force her to be aggressive and to attack on command. Aggressive is not in her nature, and she wouldn’t attack for no reason. So he got rid of her.

I’ll tell you what her instincts are and that is to protect. But she has the intelligence to wait to see if the threat is real before she does anything.

@Dutchess_III , No abuse isn’t a way to prove to a dog that you are alpha, but I would never suggest having a big dog around children anyway. Both together can be unpredictable. A well attended dog who has no underline mental issues can be reigned in. It’s just not a dog for everyone. And yes, dogs can become jealous if they feel their position is being taken by a child.
I really can’t help but feel sad for them though. They were bred to be mean and I’m sure there are some really sweet ones that will never harm a fly, but you never really know what can make it snap and go from loving to killer.

Oh, I know you wouldn’t advocate abuse to prove one is alpha. I’m saying too many people, especially men, think that physical violence is the way to prove superiority, especially pit bull owners. They get a dog to prove how big and bad they are, then they have to prove to the dog that they’re even bigger and badder than the dog is.

I also would not want a dog who has to be “reigned in.” I want a dog who has an even, gentle temperament to begin with.

I think pits should be bred out of existence. All other dogs have some sort of valid working background. Dakota herds, and protects. She’s also very intelligent. That’s why GSDs are used so extensively for police and miltary work. They think.

Dutchess….well, she fetches and acts like a spaz sometimes. Her ancestors were hunting dogs. And she barks too much. And goes on point over leaves and tree branches.

What work were pits bred to do? Bull baiting. Bull baiting. A grisly sport. Then for dog fighting, another grisly, inhumane sport. WTF. Who would want a dog with that running through their blood?

My dog is 130 pounds and children climb on him regularly. I’m not the slightest bit concerned that he would bite a child. He is also incredibly gentle with cats and pet rodents. He simply has zero prey drive.

He has been attacked four times by other dogs. Every time it was a pit bull. Pits are dog aggressive. It’s to the point that I will not be around a pit with my dog again.

It also seems like the dogs you see most often who have escaped and are wandering around the neighborhood are pits. Why is that?

It’s interesting you say that. Two of the times my dog was attacked it was because the pit had escaped home and ran for us as we were walking down the street. Scares the shit out of you to see a pit sprinting for you… With the owner running behind screaming.

You’re supposed to give me a GA, @AdventureElephants!

Yeah. I wonder why.

I cannot wait to get a pitty

Every pit bull I have ever met was a big ole sweetie.

Just like everything, people are spooked by myths, antidotes and flat out lies.

Some day

@tinyfaery It’s just a fact that put bills are always near the top of the lists of most dangerous dogs. Those lists are based in statistics. It doesn’t mean the majority of pit bulls will attack, it just means of the attacks committed, pit bulls lead the pack (pun not intended) of dogs committing the acts.

I think you are one of those people who want to prove all the “haters” are wrong, but there is some legitimate reasons people are wary of pit bulls.

I never use the word “hater”. And I just want to make sure that both extremes are represented in the argument. The truth in somewhere in there. And as with everything, just because you believe it doesn’t make it true.

@tinyfaery I used hater. There is of course two sides, and I myself have a friend who took in a pit bull that had been abused, and the dog is very docile. I just thought you might be ignoring that they can be very aggressive. More likely to be aggressive than most dogs. It’s not a myth that they commit more vicious acts.

They also score higher than average on socialization tests.

I think it is important to remember two things:

1. Correlation is not causation. Pit Bulls are traditionally owned by a certain type of person. All statistics need to be analyzed with that in mind.

2. Statistics rely on the data available. We all know Pit Bulls appear much more threatening than the cute, fluffy, growling dogs in all the YouTube videos. Cute dogs have license to be aggressive, and even bites are severely under-reported.

@longgone before the advent of pit bulls there were other types of dogs owned by the same type of person who often gets pit bulls today. Back then they got Doberman Pinchers, German Shepherds, Rotweilers and the like. It is safe to assume they treated those other dogs just as aggressively as they treat the pits today.
All things being equal, Pit bulls far outweigh all other dog breeds in every danger category, which includes maiming and death, and they most often turn on children. The stats don’t lie.

But to use a correlation / causation argument anyway, one of our own recently learned the death of a family member, a baby, who was sleeping, when the family pit attacked her. This was a family dog. It was loved. It was treated well. It had never shown signs of aggression before.
And now a baby is dead. She would have been 2 on Christmas.

@tinyfaery, I just love this comment in one of your links:

“Don’t Pit Bulls have to be TRAINED TO FIGHT?
NO! Pit bulls are terriers, and terriers tend to be scrappy with other animals if unsocialized, poorly managed or otherwise left to their own devices.

…“Scrappy?” My God. Tiny, annoying, aggressive little ankle biters are “scrappy.” They bark and bite and worry and charge aggressively and it’s so cute (not) and no one really gets hurt.
Pits bark and bite and worry and charge…and people die.

It is also sounding more and more like people need to raise their pits perfectly somehow, in a very, very special way, so the dog doesn’t go around killing people.

People underestimate the space that muscular dogs need, IMO. Pitts, Rotts, Shepherds, etc.

I think the dogs might be perfectly happy and content living in an apartment or confined space but over time pent up energy can make them lash out insanely. Giving a dog a run once or twice a week at the dog park is not a substitute for a restless animal running free all day as would be natural. Pitts are smart and muscular, which probably accounts for more of them breaking jail than average.

We had a German Shepherd that was sweet and loving to everyone in the family. We lived in the sticks and the dog ran loose, as had our previous dogs. Eventually he took to traveling a mile or so down the road to kill the neighbor’s chickens. We chained him to a tree with maybe 30–40’ chain and a nice dog house. He continued to be great with the family, but he would kill anything that came within his circle, including cats (that he’d previously co-existed with), the neighbor’s poodle and any other odd animal. He just couldn’t deal with the confinement.

@Dutchess_III “Back then they got Doberman Pinchers, German Shepherds, Rotweilers and the like.”

Yep, I know. It’s important to remember that statistics are greatly influenced as soon as even one point of data shifts. The Pit Bull is now the dangerous dog, and that makes Pit-Bull-acquisition by problem owners more likely, while – at the same time – lowering the number of, for example, German Shepherds in irresponsible hands.

As to the baby: Are you privvy to new information? I recall the girl was put down for a nap, but I also seem to remember that all adults were outside when the attack occurred. If that is true, we have no way of knowing whether the girl was still asleep.

I am also not aware of the dog’s history. Do you know it was treated well, or are you assuming?

As to prior signs of aggression: Sadly, we tend to not notice any signals other than growls and bites. This, in combination with most puppies being chastised or punished for showing signs of aggression toward humans, is why almost all bites are described as “out of the blue”.

If you go to Facebook and put the word “pitties” in the search, you’ll find that there are lots of people who breed pits for fighting and\or more breeding, as a way to make money. It’s sad. In one of the cities around here, I heard they feed them gunpowder to make them insane. Maybe they’re better fighters if they’re crazy. It’s so sad it’s hard for me to think about it.

@ibstubro Why didn’t you put up a large fenced area instead?

When German Shepherds were ”the” dangerous breed, their stats were still no where near the stats of pitbull for maiming and murdering.
Plus, the #1 most dangerous dog seemed to change from year to year. For a while it was Dobemans, then German Shepherds, then Rotties. However, pits hit #1 in whateveryear, and have remained #1 as the most dangerous dog. It isn’t flipping back and forth like it used to.
The stats don’t lie, @longgone. You can blame humans all you want, but the fact remains these dogs are not “scrappy” little terriers. They’re murderous.

Re the baby, I was told the dog was just part of the family. Gramma had three dogs and several cats and she loved all of her animals. They were not mistreated.

And even if the baby was awake, what possible difference does that make? She wasn’t even two years old! Hmmm. The pit must have realized what a terrible threat the child was to himself and to his family, so he killed her. I just love intelligent, loving dogs who know a real threat when they see one.

@Dutchess_III That’s why I said statistics are sensitive to minor shifts. I’m not arguing for Pit Bulls. I’m arguing for reading statistics carefully.

You can get almost all dogs to bite. Not all, but almost. Treat a puppy like crap, teach it that it can use its teeth – and there’s your aggressive dog.

The problematic owners most likely had aggressive dogs before. Dogs from various different breeds – this explains why Pit Bulls are now the number one.

I’m not interested in blaming humans, I’m interested in finding a solution. If dangerous owners have dangerous dogs, the solution is not outlawing Pit Bulls (which is what Germany has done).

It makes a big difference whether the child was awake, in my opinion. An almost two-year-old can walk, steal toys, grab muzzles, pull on ears, poke eyes – and, apart from an owner’s statement of love, we know nothing of the dog’s history.

No, dogs should not hurt babies. On the other hand, every year, the number of children killed by their parents is a hundred times greater than that of kids killed by dogs.

Banning specific breeds only makes sense if there is unbiased and correctly interpreted evidence that this one breed is more dangerous than others.

The evidence against pits is overwhelming. If you can prove otherwise, I mean prove otherwise, I’ll be happy to hear it.

If a toddler is pulling tails or ears or whatever, if the dog is truly intelligent and gentle he’ll walk away, not attack. If the dog has been bred to simply attack that’s what he will do. And pits, like all terriers, have been bred specifically to attack and kill.

I just started the shop vac. I woke Dakota up, who was sleeping near by, before I turned it on, so I wouldn’t startle her. She hates the noise. But her reaction is to go to another room.
This time she stayed where she is (she’s getting old) and just watched until I was done, then went back to sleep. How many terriers would mindlessly attack the vacuum cleaner instead? Oh, aren’t they so funny and cute?

It is my understanding from the statements made about the death that the dog was her BIL’s dog. Not the grandmother’s. Just saying.

Oh, wait… The BABY was the BIL’s… I think.

My random pit snap story is from a girlfriend in college. She had two cats and a pit that had all been raised together. They’d been in the same house together for 5 years+. My friend came home one day And the dog had torn one of the cats apart. The other one hid in the dryer a few weeks later and was accidentally dried… Needless to say they don’t have cats anymore. Sad.

Well, it wasn’t near family. It was something like her nephew’s brother-in-law’s baby. The dog belonged to the BIL’s mother….gramma. Gramma who loved her animals and was never anything but nice to them. They were family.

They didn’t get rid of the dog after that @AdventureElephants? Are they just stupid?

No, the dog’s life became miserable, though. It lived in a crate way too much. Sad story all around. My friend was pretty traumatized to come home to shredded kitty, and then to accidentally kill the other one within weeks… Terrible.

Side note: why does a granny need a pit bull? People just don’t listen when it is strongly encouraged to get a dog you can handle. I doubt that was the case here.

Most people don’t get pets because they “need” them, @AdventureElephants. I certainly never “needed” any of the dogs I’ve had.
The thing that most dictated what kind of dogs I had were my yard size.

Oh my gosh sometimes you just like to disagree.
So if you don’t take the word “need” so literally, maybe you will agree that not all people are suited to handle or own all breeds. I’ve never seen any literature that recommends a pit, a rottie, a GSD or a husky for first time dog owners, for example. Lazy people that get Australian Shepards baffle me. When I see little women with pits I generally think the dog must belong to her son (who went to jail or got a place he can’t have dogs and stuck her with it), or she’s walking her boyfriend’s dog. Not that it doesn’t happen… I’m 120lbs and owned a 110lb rottie. But I am an excellent dog handler with a strong dominant personality, too. If you don’t fit that profile you shouldn’t own dominant dogs. Whether you “need” it for protection or companionship or exercise buddy or whatever… There are smarter choices for some people than the one they make.

Why would I not take “need” literally? If you meant “Why” would she get one, you should have asked that. You would have gotten a better answer. The answer is, “I have no idea.” I have no idea why any one would get a dog whose lineage has been bred specifically to attack and kill. Apparently she, and a lot of others, have a “need” to prove that breeding for certain traits is a myth, perhaps, or completely irrelevant at the least.

It’s kind of like the debate between creation and evolution, you know.

@Dutchess_III “The evidence against pits is overwhelming. If you can prove otherwise, I mean prove otherwise, I’ll be happy to hear it.”

The anecdotes, maybe. The evidence, no. Far from it.

I don’t care whether Pit Bulls are outlawed, actually. I don’t own any. I’d just like to see a solution that will actually work.

“If a toddler is pulling tails or ears or whatever, if the dog is truly intelligent and gentle he’ll walk away, not attack.”

Yes, that would be awesome. However, many dogs are not given that as an option. Look at the first dog in this video. She is incredibly stressed, and she does try to move away. She also tries to communicate that she can’t deal with the situation – she tongue-flicks, shakes off, glances away, even lies on her back. I’m sure the mother we can hear would say she loves her dog, and the kid does not want to hurt anyone. And yet, the situation is incredibly dangerous.

I wonder which breed we’ll put all of the evil’s of the word upon in 20 years. I bet my money on Mastiffs. Or maybe Akitas.

@tinyfaery The one with the most statistically relevant history against them would be my guess. With pits being banned everywhere hopefully the numbers will decline again. You cannot deny that shelters are overrun with them. Maybe fewer of them would lead to fewer bites by them. It might be as simple as there are more of them out there so of course there are more bites. As a % it would be much harder to calculate. As in how many pits have a bite history as it compares to the total # of pits?

German Shephards are still on the list of dangerous dogs. It was a German Shephard that attacked a girl when I lived in a Tennessee (I knew her mom, but I found out about it because the TV news reported it). The dog came out charging; out from the door of the home it lived and mauled the girl. She wound up with serious damage to one arm. Who knows if it would have been worse if an off duty cop had not rushed over to help.

@tinyfaery How great they do on socialization doesn’t matter to me. Think about human beings. People who are funny and do nice things for people can also be horribly abusive. Everyone on the outside thinks that husband, cop, woman, is so wonderful, but they don’t live with him. Sociopaths are often the life of the party. Cheating, lying spouses might be wonderful in many other ways. I tell women all the time, most people are funny and friendly 90% of the time. What matters is what is the 10%? Leaving the toilet seat up? Having sex with other women? Hitting you now and then? We need to focus on the negative, not the positive, with these people, and same with dogs. In my opinion. The Pits are too often being bred to be mean. It’s unfair to the dog, but that’s the population that is being created.

I’m glad there are nice people out there adopting the dogs that are homeless, but I’m not in favor of breeding pit bulls, especially not to be fighters. I’m not keen on breeders in general. I know many are very nice people who love dogs, but who are we to control the dog population in that way?

I’ll agree with @longgone that the statistics might not be perfect in how they are gathered and interpreted, but the numbers are too high to ignore. Probably pit bull bites are reported more than the cute fluffy dogs, because the pit bulls cause more damage. That matters. When we evaluate risk, we think about how likely something is, and how horrible the negative result might be, even if rare.

And another
God, that poor child. All alone. No one to hear his screams.