Would the Chick-Fil-A manager have given this homeless guy food if the guy hadn't agreed to pray?

I’m surprised that you took offense at that more than at the father who was dating his daughter. Okay, whatever, I guess.

“The manager came back shortly and said he’d gladly give the man a full, free meal as long as he could pray with him.”

This strikes me as self-aggrandizing, kind of vulgar, and not very Christ-like. It’s not exactly charitable if you require payment in the form of prayer.

I shouldn’t fault the manager. There are just too many positive ways of viewing the prayer request on the part of the manager. To begin with, it’s unfair to view the prayer requirement as coercive rather than accept the possibility that the manager believed prayer beneficial to the hungry man. Then there’s the practical matter for we cynics who would view the prayer requirement equivalent to “I’ll feed you dinner if you sweep the floor”. Had the homeless man expressed any resistance or hostility to the request, we would then have to assess the manager’s reaction. But as it turned out, a hingry man was fed at the “price” of a prayer. It does make you think though. I can’t seem to recall in the many instances of Jesus helping people, His ever requiring them to pray in compensation.

A friend of mine was homeless for a time and told me about a place on the Bowery where you could get a decent meal for the price of listening to a sermon. I think that religious people may sincerely feel that they are helping save your soul while feeding your body. Not my thing but I wouldn’t be overly critical of it.

There are places that do what @janbb said.

The person making the offer has, in my opinion, the right to “charge” whatever he wants for his offer. My job offers me what they offer in the form of compensation, and I always have the option to say no thank you and take my services elsewhere.

The “taker” always has the option of passing up the deal.

Shameful. Coercive. Counter to what Jesus himself said; John 13:34–35 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” He wasn’t talking about the lame,fleeting puny excuse for the emotion that we incorrectly call love today. He meant Agape. Unconditional love. It is not so much an emotion ad it is a verb in constant motion. If more Christians understood and practiced this, Christianity would not have such a bad name. He may even have meant well, but it would have bern more in kerping with the tenets to quietly feed the man and not draw attention to himself. Another tenet broken.

Another example that no good deed goes unpunished.
My hat is off to the manager. The kid has probably been in many times before, and knew the manager would help him. The manager has made himself a mark.
This was a generous gesture. Why criticize it?

Where’s the shame and coercion, @Jak? I’m with @janbb in that this isn’t my thing, but as others have pointed out, true believers (not just Christians) frequently believe that they have to “deliver the word” to anyone who will listen, and as @jca noted, there’s no threat of violence if the receiver chooses not to receive.

If the Chick-fil-A guy had come out from behind the counter with a long knife with a strong blade and threatened to cut the man’s head off if he didn’t accept the prayer, then I would agree with you that this is not right, and it is coercive. He offered food for a prayer – which he delivered on behalf of the other man. That seems to me to be pretty much on par with Jesus.

Probably not.

@CWOTUS I would have thought the term “unconditional” was enough to mske the point. I referenced a specific scripture and don’t think I can make it any plainer. The implication that I undestood was if the man said no, thete would have been no food. Direct contradiction of Jesus’ command. And pretty much the definition of coercion. Just because he didn’t threaten harm does not mean there was no coercion. He gave a choice between comfort and continued hunger. He put a price on something, set terms. If you consider that to be Christ-like then you are in error. And as I also already stated, he probably meant well but lacks understanding of Agape and exactly how he is to conduct himself as a Christian.

Well, what if….the manager was a Muslim and he said the guy had to say “Alhamdulillah” ( All the praises are due to Allah – how free from imperfections is Allah.)”?

And I could be wrong. I just gave my thoughts a requested

I’m sure that just as many scriptures could be found that support encouraging someone to pray and accept the word of Christ, etc.

But why should that be a requirement for treating another person decently?

@Dutchess_III: See my previous comment.

Of course it would be nice if the manager didn’t do that.

I think I outlined my opinion pretty well in my first comment.

Yes, I understood what you said, and you’re right. Everyone who has something to offer has the right, and the power, to be a dick about it.

Yes, GA @Dutchess_III.

This is why I don’t support the Salvation Army. I hate this kind of religious coersion. It’s vile.

I think you being bothered by this story has more to do with your fallacious self-perception of moral superiority which is based on your failure to recognize that the logic behind your displeasure for the manager in this story, cuts both ways. If you think the manager is a bad guy for his actions, then you must also see yourself as a bad guy. Everyday, thousands of people die from starvation because you chose to spend your time and money elsewhere. But you’re not bothered by your monetary decisions, yet you’re bothered with the manager of this story. Recognize that there is no difference between you choosing to spend your money elsewhere and a manager who refuses to give a free meal to a homeless man if he didn’t pray.

Poverty/hunger are not valid excuses for getting freebies. There is no reason why someone cannot ask for reciprocity from an able-bodied homeless guy. If the manager had asked the homeless guy to clean the restaurant in exchange for a meal, it would have been just as valid of reason as asking him to pray in order to receive a meal. Nobody is bothered that the employees in the restaurant are working for the boss in exchange for a monetary reward, so why shouldn’t an able-bodied homeless guy work or pray for his meal?

That being said, I think if the homeless man refused to pray, the manger would still give him a free meal. I’m basing this answer on the quote in the article I heard love in that prayer. The homeless man wasn’t some untouchable stain on business

@efnuttin – you obviously are a selective reader, who didn’t fully understand what I wrote.

I have no problem with prayer. My only issue was – was it coerced? The original article (not the interpretation that you and others have placed on it) is not clear.

All the rest is all of the commentors (and you) imputing your interpretations.

Agree @elbanditoroso. Whether or not a person wants to pray and give homage to another man’s God is their choice and to make them do it or starve is just wrong. What if the manger had told the guy he had to say, “All hail to Satan!” @efnuttin? Or that he had to pray to Allah for the death of all infidels?

Nothing says the homeless guy was starving. That’s an assumption. In many places, there are multiple places homeless people can get food.

In America “starving” means you haven’t eaten in 5 hours. That means I qualify.

@elbanditoroso

According to webster’s dictionary, coercion is defined as making someone do something by using force or threats. The same dictionary defines threats as an expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage.

Look at the boss/employee dynamic. If an employee is asking a boss for a paying job, and the boss agrees to provide a paying job, but will only provide that paying job if the employee does work for the boss, is the boss coercing the employee? You would be bothered by this because you would be asking what if the employee refused to work for the boss? Would the boss still provide a paying job? Is a boss who refuses to provide a paying job for an employee that is not willing to work for him be considered coercion?

We know clearly that a manager told a homeless man that he would gladly provide a free meal as long as he could pray with him. The manager/homeless man dynamic isn’t any different than a boss/employee dynamic. Neither duo constitutes as coercion according to how it is defined.

@Dutchess_III

See answer to elbanditoros.

@Dutchess_III: Do you really think you are qualify as starving?

Of course not @jca. I’ve gone 5 days without eating, and regularly go 8 or more. 5 hours is nothing. I was making a joke on what “starving” means in a first world country.

You re very esoteric @efnuttin. I still think it sucks. I still think it was petty and mean spirited.

@Dutchess_III. I got your joke. We do have a ridiculous tendency to overstate things in this country. I’d just like you to consider the possibility that the guy meant well.
I feel like religious right wing people have a common thread of being comfortable with authoritarian attitudes. They truly feel that they are in the right and that they are obligated to save the rest of us from hell. Nevermind for the moment that this attitude is what drove the inquisition, the Salem witch trials, the opression of god knows how many peoples by Christian missionaries and zealots. The man himself prolly meant well. Ad I said earlier, it is an intrinsic lack of understanding of what the Christ was trying to say that is the underlying cause of all the problems we see today with how these so-called Christians conduct themselves and ultimately misrepresent his message.

Couldn’t have said it better myself @Jak. Jesus wouldn’t have withheld food or shelter if the guy didn’t buy into his preaching.

I’ve always heard beggars can’t be choosers. In this thread it seems that “pray with” has grown to “preaching.” Geesh! Complaining about the charity offered to a homeless guy is pretty low. I guess the hungry guy should have found himself a mosque for a free meal. .

@mm. No one said anything remotely like what you are suggesting.

Asking for someone to pray with you is a form of preaching, @MollyMcGuire. If someone asked you to pray to Allah with them, wouldn’t you consider it preaching?

Yes, he could have gone to a mosque or a church for free food, but he didn’t. He went to a place that actually had food.

@Dutchess_III Praying with someone is not preaching…at all! If someone asked if they could pray with me, or you, it wouldn’t be preaching. I won’t cut and paste, but the dictionary might help.

A hungry homeless man will always have a better chance of a handout from a Church than a restaurant.

@MollyMcGuire Switch it up. What if the guy had asked you to repeat an Islamic prayer giving allegiance to Allah? Would you consider it a form of coherence to conform to his beliefs?

The only help I ever got from a church was $50 toward a utility bill I couldn’t pay.

How do you figure a church has food to hand out? Where do they keep it?

Churches around here have soup kitchens and food pantries. They usually have spacious basements, rec rooms, etc.

OIC. Well, around here they don’t.

Kansas Soup Kitchens List (includes many religious organizations):
http://www.dcf.ks.gov/services/ees/Documents/Food_Distribution_Programs/Soup%20Kitchen%20Food%20Banks%20List.pdf

Your link came up as a PDF, but it was blank. Interesting that your link is a government one, not a church affiliated one. I mean, that was the discussion.

I’m sure there are soup kitchens in many areas, run by many different people. But by “around here” I meant my town, and every small town between here and Wichita. I’m sure Wichita, KC and other more metropolis areas have them.
We do have a food bank, but I don’t know if it’s run by a church or not. I do know that it’s not only churches who donate to it. There are boxes set up for them at both the grocery stores in town.

@Dutchess_III; It had many churches on it. Will google it again.

County Soup Kitchen Name/Address Telephone/Web Address
Barton Lasting Life Ministries
1515 Williams St
Great Bend, KS 67530
620–792-2209
Bourbon First United Methodist Church
301 S National
Fort Scott, KS 66720
620–223-1950
http://faithfamilyjesus.com/churchprofile.php?ChurchID=155708
Cherokee Trinity Worship Center
225 East 16th
Baxter Springs, KS 66713
620–202-1908
http://wordiam.org/
Clay Angel’s Mercy
117 S Main
Morganville, KS 67468
785–447-0231
Clay First Presbyterian Church
1101 Millington St
Winfield, KS 67156
620–221-4500
http://www.firstpreswinfield.com/
Clay First United Methodist Church
1000 Millington
Winfield, KS 67156
620–221-2700
620–221-3550
http://www.winfieldfumc.org/
Clay Five Loaves Food Ministry c/o
First Presbyterian Church
321 S 1st St
Arkansas City, KS 67005
620–442-5700
http://www.arkcitypres.org/frames/frameset-arkcity.htm
Crawford St Michaels Church
106 North Western
Girard, KS 66743
620–362-3168
http://www.stmichaelgirard.com/
Crawford St. Peter Episcopal Church
306 W Euclid
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620–231-3790
http://saintpeterspittsburg.com/
Crawford Wesley House
411 E 12th Street
Pittsburg, KS 66762
620–232-3760
http://www.kansaseast.org/pages/detail/906
Douglas The Salvation Army
946 New Hampshire
Lawrence, KS 66044
785–843-4188
http://www.usc.salvationarmy.org/usc/www_usc_kan.nsf/vwsublinks/8E228D780458AA7986257566005B3532?openDocument
Finney Emmaus House
802 N 5th
Garden City, KS 67846
620–275-2008
http://emmaus-house.com/
Johnson Edgerton United Methodist
Church
300 E 4th
Edgerton, KS 66021
913–882-6735
http://www.edgertonumc.org/
List of Soup Kitchens Participating and Receiving USDA Commodities
(Not all-inclusive list of soup kitchens in the state.)
Updated: May 2012
Johnson The Salvation Army
420 E Santa Fe
Olathe, KS 66061
(913)782–3640
http://www.usc.salvationarmy.org/usc/www_usc_kan.nsf/vwsublinks/A5734B437AA5A28186257566005AE9EC?openDocument
Labette Parsons Foursquare Inc
98 E Main
Parsons, KS 67357
620–423-0423
http://www.parsonsfoursquare.org/index.html
Leavenworth Faith Christian Center International
616 Grand Ave
Leavenworth, KS 66048
913–682-7770
http://www.fccilvk.com/about_pastorminister.html
Neosho Faith House, Inc
1531 S Evergreen
Chanute, KS 66720
620–431-4357
Reno Christian Soup Ministry
301 E 3rd Ave
Hutchinson, KS 67501
620–662-6468
http://www.christiansoupministry.com/
Reno First Christian Church-Bread & Cup
Ministry
15 East 5th
Hutchinson, KS 67501
620–664-9433
Riley First Congregational United Church
of Christ
700 Poyntz
Manhattan, KS 66502
785–410-4318
http://www.uccmanhattan.org/
Saline The Salvation Army
1137 N Santa Fe
Salina, KS 67401
785–823-2251
http://www.usc.salvationarmy.org/usc/www_usc_kan.nsf/vwsublinks/D14B0C35866777CC86257566005AC513?openDocument
Sedgwick Chisholm Trail Church of Christ
5833 East 37th N
Wichita, KS 67220
316–683-1313
http://www.chisholmtrailcofc.org/index.html
Sedgwick College Crest Church of Christ
2615 Wellesley
Wichita, KS 67220
316–686-1981
Sedgwick Episcopal Social Services at
Venture House
1005 E 2nd St. North
Wichita, KS 67214
316–269-4160
http://www.esswichita.org/
Sedgwick Grace United Methodist
Neighborhood Meals
944 S Topeka
Wichita, KS 67211
316–262-6195
List of Soup Kitchens Participating and Receiving USDA Commodities
(Not all-inclusive list of soup kitchens in the state.)
Updated: May 2012
Sedgwick Jacob’s Ladder /Greater Mt. Zion
Baptist
1201 S Market
Wichita, KS 67212
316–263-7623
Sedgwick St. Paul AME Soup Kitchen, dba
Damascus Corp.
1756 N Piatt
Wichita, KS 67214
316–265-5881
Sedgwick The Lord’s Diner
520 N Broadway
Wichita, KS 67214
316–266-4966
http://catholicdioceseofwichita.org/the-lords-diner/the-lordsdiner-home
Shawnee Breakthrough House
1201 SW Van Buren
Topeka, KS 66612
785–232-6807
http://www.breakthroughhouse.org/
Shawnee Christian Street Witness, Inc
107 SW 14th St
Topeka, KS 66612
785–354-8763
Shawnee Crisis Services
2221 SW 6th
Topeka, KS 66606
785–235-6395
Shawnee Let’s Help Inc
200 S Kansas Ave
Topeka, KS 66601
785–234-6208
http://letshelpinc.com/
Shawnee The Salvation Army
1320 SE 6th Ave
Topeka, KS 66607
785–233-9648
http://www.usc.salvationarmy.org/usc/www_usc_kan.nsf/vwsublinks/10856FA8E366E7CC86257566005AB8C1?openDocum
ent
Shawnee Valeo Behavioral Health
2401 SW 6th St
Topeka, KS 66606
785–357-0580
http://www.valeotopeka.org/services_recovery.cfm
Wyandotte Central Avenue Center of Hope
11 N 15th Street
Kansas City, KS 66102
913–233-2511
http://centralavecenterofhope.org/
Wyandotte Cross-Lines Cooperative Council, Inc
736 Shawnee Ave
Kansas City, KS 66105
913–281-3388
http://www.cross-lines.org/
Wyandotte Hot Lunch Service, Inc
645 Nebraska
Kansas City, KS 66101
913–281-5638
http://www.mtcarmelrc.org

Thanks.

You see many religious organizations including churches in that list.

Of course.

Swipe. Swipe. Swipe. Sheesh
:-)

?