San Francisco, CA, USA bans plastic bottles, what do you think about it?

A few days ago I had a discussion on how we could save the environment. There was a suggestion that we should replace bottles with drinking fountains, but someone said it was impossible as bottles had become too convenient to give up. Well, guess this is not so impossible after all.

I don’t know how long it can keep up though.

I could live with it. I do buy plastic bottled (flavored) water and feel guilty for doing so. If they were not available I would learn to do without.
Same goes for those dastardly plastic bags from the stores. I am so sick of seeing them hung up in all the fences in West Texas and blowing around the city streets that they could be eliminated without concerning me at all.

I am in favor of it. I use a steel water bottle myself. I use it on airplanes, we have special water fountains at San Francisco International Airport designed to fill re-usable water bottles.

”... the ban will phase out the sales of plastic water bottles that hold 21 ounces or less in public spaces.”

So they will just make bottles 22 oz.. or larger.
Adding one ounce isn’t going to change the cost of manufacturing or distributing bottled water significantly.

I think anything that enables less use of plastic is great.

Bravo. Innovate, adapt and survive.

I think they’ll survive. Maybe we could just lose the notion that we need to have a beverage near to hand everywhere we go 24/7.

It may be an OK policy for people who live there. But what about those of us who come to visit? Is the expectation that when I pack my suitcase I should throw in a plastic or metal drinking vessel? That’s silly.

I think this is a perfect example of a reasonable initiative that was not well thought out.

On the one hand we’re told over and over to drink more water. On the other hand we’re told the city water isn’t good and contains contaminates. Outlaw the water bottles and they’ll simply make glass or cans. The bottle deposits were supposed to fix this but it hasn’t. California doesn’t even call them a deposit any more but rather a fee. San Francisco is always on the cutting edge of insanity. This is another example of it.

@Jaxk San Francisco has some of the best tap water anywhere in the world! And what’s wrong with glass?

@elbanditoroso Yep. throw in a reusable water bottle! I do!

It’ll never stand up in the courts

@zenvelo – Nothing wrong with glass except it’s heavier and breakable. And that snow melt San Francisco uses is shrinking. Personally, I don’t care because I don’t drink bottled water. For those that do, we’ve just made it more expensive. More expensive seems to be the ‘go to’ solution for everything these days.

@Jaxk Apparently the insanity is contagious. No plastic bags at the grocery stores started here and is spreading quickly throughout the state. The city even forces stores to charge for paper bags. But I don’t think the city can withstand the “restraint of trade” argument that very powerful interests will lay before the Federal courts. In fact the Feds themselves may be muscled into challenging the law.

@stanleybmanly – My mind boggles at the idea that this could be a federal issue but I’m sure they’ll try. None of this has gotten to my area but I’m curious if the ‘no plastic bags applies to the plastic bags they use for fruit and vegetables. Do you have to bring your own?

@See there’s the catch. Produce aisles in stores not allowed to place your groceries in plastic bags still have clear plastic bags on dispensers that you can unroll and fill with produce. No 2 people have ever given me the same explanation on the bag law. But watch & see whether or not the dept. of Commerce is enlisted to challenge the bottle law.

Awesome step in the right direction. I hope something similar happens in my city. I already use a reusable water bottle.

@stanleybmanly – I don’t it as a federal issue but I wouldn’t bet against you.

I think this is a great idea. Good on San Francisco.

I have to admit I buy bottled water when I’m out. I often forget to take a bottle with me. I think if we did this here, we’d need to make sure there were lots more water fountains about. Places where people can easily fill their own water bottles. We have great water here. There’s no reason for people to buy bottled water. In the end, the cost of putting in water fountains would have to be offset by the savings in dealing with all that plastic.

The Bay Area is often a head of the country in environmental progress. Good on ‘em. Of course, it’s not just water – soda and juice may have to be bottled in glass.

I agree the water bottles are the thin edge of the wedge that is planned.

I think it’s a good trend start but why target the consumer when the supplier is the one who’s offering it to those who otherwise would not be able to taste their product.. Government Regulation may sound like a dirty word to some people but in this capitalistic nation it is something that must be done to a certain extent else you as a consumer would be faced with much worse polluting materials.. It’s like cigarettes, instead of punishing the smoker with outrageous taxation, the better alternative is to put pressure on the suppliers otherwise it indicates that someone is just trying to make a larger profit while allowing the product to be distributed.. Regulate what they can and can not put into the tobacco, cigarettes do not need to be drenched with poisons just to maintain sturdiness, there are other ways to offer their wares to those who choose to indulge that wouldn’t affect the environment, same for plastic bottles and grocery bags.

Whatever they can think up to ban, require, regulate, etc.

So why we’re refundable deposits on bottles not working in Ca.?

They’re working just fine here in Mi. and you just don’t see bottles tossed all over the roadways and other places like you do in other states.

I wish they would extend it to water bottles as well. Right now it’s just soda and juice bottles because when the legislation was first enacted water in bottles was pretty scarce.

So why can’t CA. make this work? What seems to be the problem?

@Buttonstc I think one reason it works in MI is it’s 10¢ for small bottles and cans. I think it’s only 5¢ in CA. Plus, MI somehow really has a strong culture of bottle return that I’ve never experienced in other states. I don’t know if it’s purely because of the fee, or also how the program was rolled out and handed down? I know when I lived there, if I had a six pack of soda (forgive me, pop) returning the cans was worth about the price of a seventh pop. It felt like buy 6 get one free psychologically. That isn’t so in other states.

@JLeslie – Since you can’t return the bottles in California at the same place you bought them the ‘buy 6 get one free’ logic doesn’t really work. Hell California doesn’t even call it a deposit anymore, it’s a fee.

@Jaxk Easy return would be a big factor I would think. When I lived in MI I could bring the cans right back to the store.

When the program first began back in the 70s my dad owned a small mom and pop grocery store in Mi. I can remember all the bottles coming in. What a pain in the arse. But still it did provide some incentive to bring them back. In California that isn’t there. The only places to get your deposit is at a recycling center and there aren’t many of those so most people throw them in the recycle bin if there is one and trash if not. The fees go into the general fund so whether they are actually used for clean up, is anyone’s guess.

The glass is recycled in San Fran as part of the bottles and cans.

The town I live in just went from a system of recycling where items were put on the curb in individual plastic bags, provided by the municipality, pre-sorted by the homeowner (glass, plastic, paper, cans) and picked up once a week to a system where they provide one large plastic container (like our trash can only slightly larger and a different color) that holds all the recycles, unsorted, and is picked up every other week. An article in the local newspaper said that in doing so there was over a 360% increase in the amount of recyclable products received that first month and subsequently that much less going into the land fill. Hopefully this will be the new norm.

Our recyclables in my town in NJ are commingled and picked up once a week. Same day, deifferent trucks.

At a nickel a pop, the pet bottles, glass beverage botlles andaluminum cans are heavily competed for here in the city. These items are supposed to be placed in the blue recycling “cans” with which every residence is equipped. Those cans are heavily scoured, often several times a night by armies of elderly Chinese and Vietnamese women equipped with enormous plastic bags. At 5 cents apiece, it’s extremely rare to encounter an empty water bottle, beer bottle or soda can lying around on the streets or sidewalks.

That reminds me of when I was a kid, @stanleybmanly, and we used to walk the ditches along our 2-lane highway looking for nickel pop bottles.

In college collecting pop cans was a big deal.

@stanleybmanly

Are you in Califirnia?

@Jaxk

I see what you mean. I doubt that I’d be willing to haul my empties to a recycling center if there are so few of them.

As it is, here it’s a little inconvenient but at least you get reminded of all those 10 cent savings every time you go to the grocery store :)

But it’s no small wonder it doesn’t work in Calif. if people really have to go out of their way to do it. That’s pretty shortsighted on the part of a state known for being so progressive and all. Just sayin’...

@Buttonstc. Yes I’m at ground zero in California, San Francisco, the first circle of activist hell itself.

@Buttonstc But they’re picked up as part of recycling as has been said.

Given the narrowness of the ban (water bottles under 21 oz. on public property) and San Francisco’s recycling efforts (Its trash diversion rate now stands at 80%), I think the ban is largely symbolic.

Think Outside the Bottle campaign, a national effort that encourages restrictions of the “eco-unfriendly product,” was one of the largest supporters of the proposal.
From the link in the details.

That doesn’t lessen what San Francisco did. I mention it because some of the “it’s not enough” detractors aren’t getting the bigger picture.
(Like my OP?)

Off topic, but some interesting trivia for the discussion: Michigan has all sorts of different things. It’s its own island (peninsula) in a way. It has it’s own system for bottle return with a higher value (10¢). It didn’t have 411 back when that was common in most states. It calls it’s DMV Secretary of State. It had Meijers before anyone had a Walmart. Many left turns have you stop in the median on the right side of the road. And, it has more American cars on the road (for obvious reasons) than you can imagine if you have never been there.