Should non-essential luxury items be removed from prisons?

They’re in prison.

A situation where if enough of them get too bored, people get killed.

I don’t give a single fuck whether they play video games, especially considering how many of them are being jailed for nonviolent petty drug offenses that shouldn’t even be offenses.

We’ve taken so many good people off the street and put them into the biggest criminal training system in the country.

Please give them an Xbox. Maybe it will distract them from joining a gang and doing something worse than weed when they get out.

The most recent update that I found for your link showed that it apparently backfired.
The Norwegian prison sentence was already much more lenient than here in the United States, so I can only imagine that the prison system is, too.

Perhaps you should qualify your question?
The majority of respondents here are probably going to base answers on the US system.

I’d have thought that isn’t our place to say, but my opinion, if a games console is shit there’s nowt more infuriating.

Our jails and prisons are crowded with many people who don’t belong there in the first place. They pose no threat to public safety, but suffer from untreated mental illness.

There was something even more recent on NPR that’s relevant that I’m still looking for.

How about we first stop the guards from starving the inmates, gassing them or cooking them alive first. Then completely reform a system that has allowed this for decades, then lock up the motherfucking lowlife sadists and their bosses who do this. Then properly protect the people who blow the whistle on them. Then we can talk about X-box, which I doubt you’ll find any outside of the type of prisons they send people like Martha Stewart.

Maybe give him the option to receive healing with Ayahuasca. I still can’t link on my phone but I understand that some prisons are using it as a treatment with some success. Then after a few treatments he wouldn’t pose a threat.

@Jak How curious!

I suppose it’s a matter of perspective as well as one’s definition of “luxury”. Personally I think if you’re going to lock someone in a box, it’s a good idea to keep his mind occupied to avoid mischief. Those ” non essential luxury items are handy tools for promoting good behavior, and can be snatched away readily enough at the onset of bad conduct.

By their nature – and human nature – and no matter how humanely we attempt to administer them, prisons are pretty brutal and dehumanizing. Even juvenile detention facilities for nonviolent children who we decide have to be segregated from society for some reason, which one would think would be as humanely run as possible, develop along the lines of the discredited (but still valid as a basic object lesson) Stanford Prison Experiment. Guards become vicious and brutal, inmates develop gangs and a caste system, and violence among inmates and between guards and inmates (and, I would suspect, among guards’ families as well) is commonplace. Accepted, even. This, to me, is intolerable.

So whatever can be done to alleviate that is going to improve the situation somewhat. While I favor the idea of segregating and limiting the freedom of certain humans who have committed certain crimes against others, I do not believe that we should accept “well, prison is violent, and that’s what they get for what they did” and “if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime” status quo bullshit.

On the other hand, I do believe in fair exchange, too. So I do find it outrageous that we supply better entertainment options to prisoners than I can afford, and for no exchange on the part of the prisoners. If we can find a way for the prisoners to do something nominally useful – even if it involves only something as mundane as attending classes and improving their own education as their “exchange” – (note that I’m also not a fan of prison slave labor, before someone thinks I’m on that slippery slope), then I would be in favor of that.

I do not believe in giving prisoners what they want “just because they want it and may cause problems if they don’t get it”. That’s not the kind of exchange that I have in mind. That’s the attitude that got them into prison in the first place, isn’t it?

Before I can answer, society must determine the real goal(s) of the prison system. It seems that in the US, the goals are to punish people for crimes as heinous as smoking pot or being black and to line the pockets of those that run the for-profit prisons and those who get kickbacks from them. I might feel differently if our nation had a better record on human rights than it actually does.

Wait… don’t those things have to be bought from the prison commissary? And doesn’t buying something usually entail earning wages? If so, then how would it not be considered “earned”?

@CWOTUS “On the other hand, I do believe in fair exchange, too. So I do find it outrageous that we supply better entertainment options to prisoners than I can afford”

In that vein, many are outraged that prisoners get three hots and a cot while many millions of Americans can’t even afford that bit of luxury. Of course, that view is held mostly by sociopaths whose faith in Capitalism is so great that they feel that human dignity and life itself are luxuries that must be earned anyways, so make of that what you will.

I have no problem with such luxuries being available to inmates. They aren’t simply given as a matter of course. The privilege must first be earned through good behavior. And once earned the items must still be “purchased”* through the prison commissary. And these items can be taken away at the slightest infraction. Anything that incentivizes good behavior and works as a potential to defuse stress in a extremely high-stress, violent environment such as prison is a good thing as far as I’m concerned.

*I say “purchased”, in quotation marks, as it’s more akin to rental, since such items aren’t really the permanent property of the inmate and can be taken away at the discretion of prison officials.

As an additional question to everyone. Do you think inmates should have the right to better luxury items? Such as a better variety of television channels and better games consoles, in addition to what is currently being offered to them?

^^^ If they earn them, sure.

Sure. Throw in a Playboy subscription and add a selection of fleshlights to the commissary, too.

Lol wow do they get a striptease on their birthday too? ;)

The well behaved & less weird cons get allocated a certain amount of time to play games online, multiplayer styley. It amuses me no end to think i’m pwning a prisoner on call of duty & I get to fuck my wife after too :D

I think they should all be issued a Bible and a deck of cards, and nothing else.

“Do you think inmates should have the right to better luxury items?”

I think the sticking point here is right. In the OP Details your link about Anders Brevik showed that he believed he had an unalienable right to a certain level of video games for gourd’s sake), and I do not agree with that.

I think prisoner privileges could and should include most things not deemed hazardous or disruptive to the prison environment. I agree with @Darth_Algar that luxury items (within reason) should be available to reward positive behavior.

Non-essential luxury items should never be considered a right, IMO. For example, if you’re give the use of a game console and you intentionally abuse it, you don’t have a right to have it replaced. You re-earn the privilege of using another game console.

@filmfann

Indeed. Personally, I love it when the state wipes its ass with the Constitution.

@filmfann – Yeah, nothing but time and stories of prisoners getting revenge on the system that kept them down. What could possibly go wrong?

Relevant

@ibstubro The problem is that many are of the opinion that the ability to breath is a privilege. Unless you plan to keep them in there until they die, it might be wise to make sure that they have things to do other than work, sleep, and plot revenge.

So it really is an issue of where we draw the line between “privilege” and “right”.

@filmfann And you wonder why recidivism is so high.
Also, are you saying that all prisoners MUST become devout Christians? Think very carefully before you answer that….

@filmfann The pages of the Bible are probably more effective than that fucking state toilet paper those poor bastards have to use. So, to your dismay I’m sure, it might be welcomed for reasons other than satisfying your Christian chauvinism. They call the state stuff John Wayne paper because it don’t take no shit off nobody.

Onion paper also makes great rolling papers.
Also, if you take a page out, cover it thoroughly with deodorant from stick or roll-on deodorant, twist it tight and light it up, it makes a great scented candle in a place that could surely use scented candles.

I honestly tried to find a definitive list of prisoner’s rights, @jerv, and I was unsuccessful. This was the best I came up with, and it seemed distracting:

not be punished cruelly or unusually
due processes
administrative appeals
access the parole process (denied to those incarcerated in the Federal System)
practice religion freely
equal protection (Fourteenth Amendment)
be notified of all charges against them
receive a written statement explaining evidence used in reaching a disposition
file a civil suit against another person
medical treatment (both long and short term)
treatment that is both adequate and appropriate
a hearing upon being relocated to the mental health facility.
personal property such as: cigarettes, stationary, a watch, cosmetics, and snack-food
visitation
privacy
food that would sustain an average person adequately.
bathe (for sanitation and health reasons).

Personal property is on the list, so not everything above basic human existence is considered a privilege.

Because of the example given in the details of the OP, I was trying to draw the line between what’s grounds for a prison lawsuit, and what’s not. Right = sue for restoration.
Personally I would add a certain amount of caloric expenditure (exercise) to the list of rights.

I don’t think they have any of those things, at least not in America, and certainly not internet access. It would be idiotic to give them internet access.

It would be too easy to make weapons from video games. When I was teaching, I had to count the pencils before they could leave the room.

I think they do have a TV in a common room.

However, I’m not certain. I just messaged a friend on Facebook who did some time. I’ll see what he says.

I caught the very tail end of a piece on NPR this week that I have looked for and cannot find. I really want to hear/read it, independent of this question.

I know it was about prisons and prisoners, and I know that it equated current prison conditions with the national shame of the way African Americans were treated in the past. It piqued my curiosity, and I’d like to see if it expands my ideas on prison reform.

@filmfann
Well not everyone is Christian or is interested in becoming a Christian.

In saying that however, I wouldn’t even be willing to accept that prisoners should only be given a deck of cards and reading material. Which is why I suggested that working and education programs could be offered instead. At least this way, that would contribute to rehabilitating the prisoners and in a sense give their lives more purpose (or at least try to).

It is however interesting to me that prisoners complain about video game machines and sports tv channels. Especially considering that there was a time when such luxuries didn’t even exist. I totally get what many of the other answers are saying, that its all a matter of keeping their minds off trying to raise havoc or riots etc.

For those who think reading the Bible equals being Christian or is about being Christian: about three-quarters of the Bible is Old Testament. That’s the part before the birth of Jesus. The Jewish part, if you will. The Christians do not own the Bible. There is no such thing as “the Christian Bible.”

@Jeruba
Well yes the Bible is based on Judaism or rather the Torah. The point is giving prisoners the bible or any holy book for that matter is very much so forcing a particular religion or religions upon them. And I don’t think that is ethical, even to prisoners.

Which is why more generalised reading material would be better.

Prisons need not have luxury items to start with. I think an extensive library is a good idea, if possible. Computers only for the sake of somewhat staying capable with modern business equipment so if they get out they won’t be relics. But Playstations and the internet…..........no.

A lot of the problem lies in finding a “one size fits all” solution, IMO.

Drug users that were caught in the ‘3 strikes you out’ program are being re-evaluated for release. They could certainly handle, and benefit from, a liberal number of privileges while in prison.

Violent repeat offenders need to be watched, 24/7, and extreme care has to be taken that they don’t lay hands on anything that can be made a weapon.

So we make a ‘one size fits all’ policy and then deny the perks to the ones that will retaliate the worst.

There’s definitely room for improvement, but I’ll be damned if I know what it is.

@NerdyKeith, @filmfann was in no way advocating trying to convert someone. He was suggesting it as a form of punishment.

Again, I am certain they don’t have internet access, @MollyMcGuire.

In the United States, the Federal Bureau of Prisons, an agency of the U.S. Department of Justice, has put into place the Trust Fund Limited Inmate Computer System on February 19, 2009. This allows inmates access to electronic messaging through e-mails. The message must be text only, and must be conducted in a secure manner between inmate and the public. Messages are subject to monitoring. Currently all institutions operated by the Bureau of Prisons have TRULINCS. However outside of the TRULINCS program, nearly all states prohibit Internet use by inmates, limiting technology based access to educational opportunities.

Just FYI.

@ibstubro I agree to a large extent. I regard video games as a privilege just as you do. All I am saying is that if the line is set too spartan, it will cause more problems than it’s worth.

@jerv And you wonder why recidivism is so high.

Since my policy is not being used, maybe that would reverse the recidivism rates. Are you saying they should get HBO?

I can tell you from experience that the food sucks, horribly.

^ My mantra to myself on bad days is, “Prison food is bad, Alyson. Prison food is bad…”

Here are some non-essential luxury items that I think are a wonderful and mutual reward/win/win for all involved. Much better than video games and TV.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0iP9nO3Nb0

I teach people who are in prison and they certainly aren’t allowed access to the internet here. I’m not even sure if they have internet access in minimum security prisons.

However, to the question, it depends on what you are trying to achieve with the punishment. To me, incarceration means just that. We are locking people away from the rest of society. That is their punishment. The punishment isn’t to lock them away and take away all forms of mental stimulation. As has been said above, doing that would be counterproductive. The prison staff would then need to deal with bored, angry prisoners. Keeping the prisoners occupied makes very good sense.

Most prison systems within civilised societies suggest a primary goal is rehabilitating inmates. The extent to which that really happens is a whole different discussion, but depriving people of mental stimulation would not be conducive to helping people to improve their lives and become rehabilitated.

@Earthbound_Misfit What an excellent answer

@filmfann “Since my policy is not being used, maybe that would reverse the recidivism rates.”

It wouldn’t. All the prison outreach ministries in the world haven’t. What makes you think your idea would accomplish anything other than shit tons of Constitutional challenges?

I think they should have some luxuries, if you call them that, such as computers, access to books, and exercise facility such as basketball. They have to get their physical stimulation which will help reduce anxiety and frustration. Mental stimulation is important because the majority are going to be released, and we don’t want them released in bad shape, mentally, if possible. Also, recently, there are a lot of legal challenges to extended terms of solitary confinement, which causes psychological trauma.

@filmfann Now you’re just trolling. If not, then I am sincerely worried for the safety of everyone around you.

@Earthbound_Misfit “Most prison systems within civilised societies suggest a primary goal is rehabilitating inmates.”

Which is why we do the exact opposite here in the US. There are many here whose idea of mental health care is to give them a whupping if they’re a kid or strip them of their humanity if they are an adult. And there are enough of those sociopaths to get a few people in power who would make Torquemada look like Gandhi if given the chance.

Heard from my friend who spent some time in Leavenworth. They didn’t have internet or video games. They had a common TV, and access to some books. That’s it.

It’s also going to depend on the state, the level of security, and sometimes even the prison itself (prison wardens have a certain amount of leeway on how they run their prison). While adhering to certain general guidelines each prison within a certain system may have its own sets of rules, privileges, etc. So it’s certainly not a one-applies-for-all thing.

I think we spend way too much $ for prisoners.
I’m for once convicted..off with their heads
that way nothing is needed.

But things like internet access are a no brainer, @Darth_Algar. They could plan escapes, plan crimes, plan on how to get things smuggled into them in prison if they have internet access.

When I was teaching they had computers, and access to our teaching program only. Nothing else. However, if they were left alone with just that long enough, it would only be a matter of time before they found out how easy it is to breach that wall.

They can’t have TV’s or monitors in their cells, so video games are out as well. (Weapons can be easily made from both of those.)

If they have one common TV, do you think that the 10’s of prisoners who have limited access to that TV are just gonna sit around and watch one guy play video games?

So I just don’t get where you guys think that they have that kind of luxury.

@MooCows You need to become the ruler of some barbaric, uneducated, filthy, third world country.

Then where did all those prison TVs come from, @Dutchess_III?

Oops, edit for modern version.

LOL! That was really funny @ibstubro!

I’d be willing to bet that the prisons have common rooms with a tv strapped to the wall way up high.

And constantly monitored by guards, both physically present and by video monitoring.

TV’s aren’t that hard to find, @Jak

Transparent Typewriter was new to me!

He’s talking about in a prison environment @ibstubro. It’s not like the inmates can order shit off of Amazon or anywhere else.

Yeah, did you open the TV link above? @Dutchess_III? Where he’s watching one?

The prisoners have to buy their own. I’ve seen a couple of dozen for sale around here – yard sales and auction. I’ve been in creepy houses where I looked down and saw a prison TV and thought, “Uh, oh.”

I don’t know if they are a commissary thing, or your family has to buy you one.

@ibstubro ok. I know nothing about it, and don’t claim to. Hence my opener; ”’;d be willing to bet”. Seriously it’s not something I’ve given much thought to, and was taking what @Dutchess_III said as a guide, since she works in a prison. I would never think of smuggling anything inside of a tv, although trojan horse technology is something at the back of my mind every time I get a new device. I wonder if there are any technologies that a prisoner would want that a live inspector wouldn’t be able to detect by a pysical inspection which could forward some inside prisoner agenda. (Dangling participle.Sorry) That sounds like Mission Impossible/secret Squirrel shit! And there I go, off on a tangent. I forget where I was headed with this…

@Dutchess_III “He’s talking about in a prison environment”

He’s talking about his prison environment. Other prisons can be different. In the prison he did his time in they have only have had one TV in a common area. In other prisons one might be able to earn the privilege of having a TV in their cell. Do not make the mistake of thinking that his experiences in his particular prison are going to be the same in all prisons out there.

Firstly, there’s the federal prison system (of which Leavenworth is part), then each individual state has their own system. And within those various systems there’s various rules and regulations, as well as various levels of security (low, medium, maximum, supermax). And even within the same system and security level things can vary a bit, depending on the particular prison, and the leniency or severity of the warden.

Do prisoners have access to video games? In this country? I don’t know. I kind of doubt it. I’ve certainly never heard of such a thing, but on my lack of knowledge I’m not going to say that out of hundreds of long-term incarceration facilities in this nation it isn’t allowed anywhere. I do know that some prisons do allow inmates to have TVs in their cell if they’ve earned the privilege.

How Do Inmates Buy Things in Jail, Prison?

In Washington State: Inmates may only obtain personal property through the commissary, education or religious programs, by making them through hobby craft or having them sent to them through an Access Secure-pak.
I opened the Men’s Matrix PDF there and jewelry, TVs, stereos and typewriters were all possibilities depending on the facility.

Sigh. I am well aware of how inmates buy certain items, such as toiletries, or earn certain privileges in jail. My point is, they aren’t ordering whatever they want to off of the internet, and they certainly aren’t buying TVs and having them shipped in.

You posted some picture of some guy in a DOC shirt, looking at some monitor of some kind. Look closely. I see what looks like a printer in the back ground, and wires. Do you really think they have printers in their cells, or have wires that they could use to hurt themselves or others in their cells? I also see an open doorway to his left. You have obviously never seen a jail cell.
COULD be he was watching something specific at a guard station.

Shoot, someone could have come into my classroom, taken a picture of all 20 of my students staring at their computer screens and jumped to the conclusion they had unlimited internet access. They didn’t. I also had to account for every pencil before they were allowed to leave the room.

Sigh, what, @Dutchess_III? Did you read the article that enclosed the DOC picture?

“It’s a way of managing them,” said Bobby Shearin, warden at North Branch Correctional Institution, the state’s maximum security facility in Cumberland. “When an inmate gets idle, they start fighting.”
Inmates like to watch the news and sports to stay informed, he said, and television schedules help them create a routine.
The younger generation of inmates Shearin oversees have grown up glued to television and video games, he said. More than 60 percent of Shearin’s inmates, many of whom are serving long sentences, have televisions and more than 30 percent have video game consoles.

”Several catalog companies, like Walkenhorst’s, provide secured direct mail to prisons of many clear electronics, from beard trimmers to typewriters, said Warden Tyrone Crowder”

You’re just spreading misinformation based on the one facility you experienced in one state. @Darth_Algar covered the difference in prison policies before your last post, and he did so in detail.

And yes, @Darth_Algar apparently some prisoners in the American prison system have personal game consoles and TVs to play them on.

In the local County jail (the county I work in), inmates are allowed one package per month. 40 lbs maximum, and everything must be new, and no toiletries. Any toiletries they want to purchase have to come from the commissary, and they’re not cheap but the brands are cheap (Lander, which is in dollar stores, is the brand name). No electronics or whatever. This is a jail for people in for less than one year. I realize this is not all jails. I am guessing jails that allow prisoners to order off the internet are few and far between.

Respectfully, @jca, jail rules have absolutely no bearing on prison rules. Jails are locally run, so there are as many policies as there are localities.

Jails are most often run by sheriffs and/or local governments and are designed to hold individuals awaiting trial or a serving short sentences (in Florida, inmates serving 364 days or less serve their time in jail).
Prisons are operated by state governments and the Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP) and are designed to hold individuals convicted of crimes.
Jails operate work release programs, boot camps, and other specialized services. They try to address educational needs, substance abuse needs, and vocational needs while managing inmate behavior. Inmate idleness contributes to management problems.
State prison systems operate halfway houses, work release centers and community restitution centers – all considered medium or minimum custody. Inmates assigned to such facilities are usually reaching the end of their sentences.

@ibstubro: Yes, I specified that I was referring to the County jail, which I understand is way different than a state prison.