Since differences create conflict, why not let like-minded people form their own laws?

Um, no?

I would have not trouble with this iff (if and only if) they did not require services from the rest of society. Do they still want the right to visit hospitals? Do they want gasoline, oil, electricity, gas, etc. delivered? Will they require hookups to internet? Will they be interacting and inconveniencing the rest of society in any way? Do they want police and fire protection? Do they want roads? Do they want public water? Then they had better be paying taxes.

Hey! I have a great idea! I’m left handed and left eye dominant. I think I’ll band together with the other 10% of the population and form my own country and make our own traffic rules. We all will drive on the left side of the road. Surely that is a better fit for us. What could go wrong with that?

How about, “poof”, my property is a sovereign nation, and if any religious person knocks on my door before noon on a Saturday, I can shoot them in the head without prejudice.

@LuckyGuy

Lets take an example of one of the services. Millions of Americans want to either opt out of paying into the welfare system or have it destroyed entirely. There would be other reasons to split up, but let say they’re allowed to opt out and live without paying in. They would certainly not expect to collect welfare benefits if they were ever in position to need it.

Roads are already established which they paid for through taxes. If they split up, the continued maintenance and structuring of roads would be handled by their own like-minded laws however they desire, be it via free markets or government.

@Seek

You can shoot them in head now if they step on your property without your permission. Depending on the state, of course. Stand-your-ground laws, castle doctrine, trespassing, etc.

I remember reading an article not too long ago. In Texas, someone trespassed and the owner emptied an entire clip of ammo into him. It isn’t a problem.

@Seek Um, no?

That “no” is only going to raise the level of animosity towards you and encourage people to do everything in their power to destroy the laws that you value. It will also likely bite you in the ass a more subtle way.

@LuckyGuy

I would also add that splitting up doesn’t mean you can’t engage in commerce with other groups.

@vorg Here’s the thing, I know more than one person who has bitched about paying into the system, and then some hardship comes and there they are using the system. I wonder what they think once they have really benefitted from it in a way that saved them from being out on the street?

How many people did I know when I lived near Memphis who bitched about paying for “Memphis” to send their children to school k-12 when this same people had their two kids in Public school? Each of them probably paid on average $5k in property taxes! $5k and their two kids were getting educated? What are they complaining about? We all (I don’t have kids) are paying for their children. Hypocrites.

I once wrote a Q asking what if a state didn’t pay into federal taxes, as an experiment, and just did their own thing, and left everything to private industry. I don’t remember all the answers. I was thinking let one of those really red states try out the super libertarian stuff they preach. Maybe we even let them pay into the fed just for the basic protection of our military in some extreme circumstance.

I’m inclined to say that communities have to meet federal law, but they still have quite a bit of leeway. Look at our Amish in America. Isn’t the Dominoes founder building a Catholic community of some sort? It’s a little scary to me, but luckily America is big enough, both population and land mass, and diverse enough, that hopefully everyone can find their niche.

That concept is what ‘States Rights’ is really all about. The federal government has been expending it’s power for 200+ years but if the States retained their power and let county, city and communities have theirs, we’d be working closer to what your suggesting. They still need to all work in harmony other wise you’d lose all consistency. That’s why the Constitution limits the power of the federal government and gives guidance on what can and cannot be done at the federal level. It’s unfortunate that we’ve pretty much erased those restrictions.

@Jaxk I have to agree with you, that that is what state rights are about, but states also sometimes do crazy shit and need to be put in their place since they are still part of the union.

I live in a stand your ground state, and no, shooting someone for knocking on your door at 7 AM on a Saturday is not standing your ground.

Yes, they do. We probably wouldn’t agree on what ‘crazy shit’ is but I think it’s safe to say some communities have done it by any definition. That’s why I say it all has to be coordinated (in harmony) according to the Constitution.

Aren’t these places more or less already in place. There is plenty of contrast between Texas & Massachusetts or Vermont & Mississippi. Could Ted Cruz manage to be elected Senator from California or Diane Feinstein Senator of Idaho?

I can’t believe I agree with completely. If I get anymore liberal, I’ll have to shoot myself.

That second sentence will earn you a few GAs!

I sure walked into that one. GA!

That would only generate more violence and killings. (My laws are better than your laws!)

One US Civil War is enough.

I want to add that if large sections of the country had very different laws it would basically limit my freedom as an American to live where I want, or need to for a job. Let’s say the only job I come across when out of work is in AL and AL decided that birth control has been made illegal. Or, that segregation is fair and legal. That’s unAmerican to me. I wouldn’t feel like I was protected by the laws that I expect in my country. What if I want to live in the FL climate, but FL makes Spanish the first language for all legal documents with no requirement for the availability of English?

@JLeslie – I would agree to some point. When my son was first going for his driver’s license the line was out the door and down the street. I though we could use the time in line to bone up on the test questions. When I went to get the sample tests they provide, they were available in Spanish and Chinese but no English. I asked the desk if I could get one in English and they told me that state law required them to have Spanish and Chinese available but there was no requirement for English. So if any were shorted it would always be English. And that was 20 years ago. We’re already there.

@vorg You mentioned they could opt out of services. That is fine – until they need help. Imagine what would happen to a hospital if they said “Sorry, you agreed to no health care. We are not going to provide it.” The law firm of Suem, Cheatem, and Barnes would be all over it. Or how about a fire? “Sorry you said you didn’t want fire protection.”
The roads might be built but they are also maintained. It costs money to have those guys standing around working and filling pot holes and guard rails from crashes due to idiots driving on the left.
People say they don’t need services – until they do. And then they demand them – conveniently forgetting they swore they didn’t .

@Jaxk That’s ridiculous. That to me just shows a badly managed DMV.

Most families cannot agree on everything or avoid conflict, coming up with homogeneous communities is near impossible.

There are communities that are essentially Hasidic communities in New York and New Jersey. Curiously, they are only able to survive through extensive governemnt assistance. One, Kiryas Joel, is the poorest community in the U.S.

@zenvelo I remember once reading a decent portion of the very religious live on public assistance, because they feel it’s more important to study the Torah than work and make money. Frustrating. I didn’t know about this group in your link in America.

The Orthodox Jewish commute is a great example of a sub-community where the members basically all live with some commonly agreed upon rules. The Jews seem to be able to work within the laws in the US though without much problem.

That would be whistling dixie.

It’s entirely doable and has been for a long time. The Mormons, Scientologist and Amish are 3 very obvious examples of this. Some were even forced into doing this like the various Indian nations in our countries. Then you have the real fringe like the survivalists in Idaho.

There are intentional communities like this all over the U.S. But they must compromise with the communities around them. The best example of this is The Farm who, as a bunch of young Freaks in the Haight district in San Francisco back in 1971, decided to dump city life and head for Summerville, Tennessee (of all places!) and be the change they wished to see in the world. They jumped into a bunch of colorful old school buses and hit the road, paying for the trip by playing music and selling macrame along the way.

To say the least, Summerville 1971 went into terminal culture shock.

Among these young back-to-the-landers were experienced carpenters, plumbers, electricians, farmers, school teachers and nurses. Most of them were in their twenties, so they couldn’t have had much experience in anything. But they were determined to make this happen and it required a really fast learning curve. First thing they realized was that they had to convince the locals that they weren’t dangerous dope fiends and they weren’t there to displace workers. They formed a crew dedicated to doing charity work at churches, hospitals, etc.

In the meantime, they established their own energy resources utulizing wind, water and other sources (But they never got off the grid entirely). The paramedic among them got a teaching degree and began teaching a certified course for EMTs recognized by the state. They have been producing EMTs from among their own population for years now and have also donated ambulances to the Summerville community. Others have become valued nurses in the local hospitals.

They came and they contributed. They enhanced the lives of the people around them, They are self-sustaining in respect to food and water and the quality is high. They sell their goods at the local farmer’s market. They produce clothes, hammocks, etc., from natural fibers and coloring that are sold on the net. They are made well and are expensive.

They send their people to do work in distressed areas in other countries. It’s their own little Peace Corp with ag people and medical people but without any ideological or theological bent. They are just there to serve. They also have three-day seminars on how to form and sustain intentional communities like their . Not bad for a bunch of young hippies. I’ve thought about giving the place a visit.

There are many of these communities. Many are religious, many are not. My favorites to monitor are members of the Federation of Egalitarian Communities since I’m partial to egalitarianism. These are very interesting communities all of them are quite different from one another. I think it might be interesting to spend a couple of weeks at a few of these the next time I’m in the states.

As divided as this country is right now, what you’re suggesting is going is predicted to happen in the near future after the country breaks out into a second civil war. Actually, the racial divide here makes a racial war also highly plausible.