Is globalised secularism achievable?

If you mean an increased appreciation of, and involvement in, science I say yes (mostly).

Mostly…

Perhaps someday true science based cults will emerge.

This could become fascinating once truly sophisticated AI comes on to the scene. Especially if it is used in a social context.

@SecondHandStoke That would be an outcome of secularism yes. But I am referring to the ideology of the separation of state and church.

I am more than confident that it will. Religion and superstition are losing ground daily by pragmatic use of science and logic in lieu of hoping God will take the initiative. Today, in growing parts of the world, if the water in a village goes bad, one can search the net for instructions to build a water filtering system from purex bottles and tubing rather than pray and wait while their children die around them. Ultimately, people want answers to very practical problems. Religion fails every time in that department. If you have faith in people, then you have faith that secularism will overcome all.

If you don’t have faith in people, then you aren’t looking at the big picture and the longer view. Things are much better and much more advanced—even in the most backward countries—than they were a century ago. Take a look at the 14th century world and compare it to today (Tuchmann’s book again). We are moving ahead. I believe what we are seeing in the apparent rise of fundamentalism in certain parts of the world is an animal lashing out in it’s death throes. One must have patience.

I doubt it – there seems to be inherent need in the human psyche to find some reason to believe that we’re special, so special that we don’t end when we die. Some portion of the population just never seems to get over it.

We also, as a species, seem to like to kill or suppress each other, and what a lovely scapegoat religion offers.

The thing that goes unrecognized is that capitalism FORCES secularization. Capitalism IS the current fashionable religion, and all forms of superstition and even bigotry are forced to yield before it.

@stanleybmanly Well I suppose that then begs the question. Can secularism function without such a prominent level of capitalism?

Sure it’s possible in theory. But I think it’s an enormous simplification to only ask in those terms.

I think there’s a lot of horribly screwed up thinking about religion, government, capitalism, spirituality, etc., and that these things change over time, particularly with more and more global communication and thinking.

As long as there are religious people, and religious people are allowed to participate in any way in government, there will be effects of religion on government.

Putting rules and principals in governments that support religious freedom and separation of religion from government, however, can and have been done, and could be done all over the world, if/when enough people with government influence in each country (or our multinational corporate overlords, if it goes too far that way) agreed.

But I think the nature of religion, government, capitalism, spirituality, and related things will continue to change and evolve, and hopefully the annoying conflicts we’ve suffered with for decades will diminish and improve things, eventually.

@NerdyKeith Secularization is not just the result of capitalism. The principle is more or less forced under most communist regimes. But I have a strong prejudice favoring the argument that the more packed the churches, the more regressive and stilted the local perceptions and attitudes.

@stanleybmanly I wasn’t arguing that secularising was the result of capitalism. I am acknowledging that most secular societies have a prominent level of capitalism at the same time.

Secularism is forced under communist regimes? Well that may be so, but secularism as we can see from the westernised world doesn’t require a communist regime. I don’t think secularism is something that is “forced”. As a matter of fact you don’t really need to accept one worldview or another under a secular state. It is seperation of state and church. So citizens are free to practice whatever religion they want to, so long as they don’t interfere with civil law.

Well here is where things get tricky. Consider the conservative grip on the bible as the be all & end all roadmap on Everything. While the book is just chock full of conflicting advice on any subject imaginable, the conflict between the life of Jesus (the sole premise of the New Testament) and secular necessities is so pronounced that it would seem impossible to ignore. And yet this is exactly the case for those subjected to tightening thumbscrews relentlessly pressuring against religious requirements.

And this is merely a tiny example of the secular realities that incessantly pound at the frivolous requirements of “the faith”.

@stanleybmanly This is why it needs to be established that a religious belief is a private matter, does not belong in politics and therefore no special treatment ought to be granted. The only requirement that faith should be entitled to, is the right to believe what they want. But that right cannot be used to trump the rights of others.

And evangelism?

^^Evangelists of every ilk should be arrested, thrown in the dungeon and made to listen to the whole of the Church of Scientology doctrine in the most nasally Thai through loudspeakers 24/7 for 60 days per charge. Give ‘em a taste of their own annoying medicine. Then we should tattoo Matthew 6:1 on their foreheads, only backwards so they have to read it every morning in the mirror when they brush their teeth.
—Thus Speeketh Espiritus

I think so. I hope so. We can do better than this cowardly superstition.

Depends on what do you consider a religion?

I think capitalism is a religion, monetize everything and winner take all is the philosophy.
I do not expect ever to get church separated from our government as long as so many people believe in capitalism and letting the invisible hand of the market solve problems.