Health care costs and health insurance are such a big expense for many in the US, and yet no candidate seems to have a plan. Why not?

I would guess that these companies, pour a lot of money into their chosen candidate so they would never go against them.

Bernie Sanders has a plan – single payer health care, like the rest of the civilized world.

Republicans have a plan- abolish Affordabe Care Act. Your cost would go to zero because you would lose your coverage.

I think that it’s more that one candidate has it implied by his mere presence and the others just don’t have it as a central plank in their platform. There is the possibility that it’s intentional as it’s generally poor strategy to play to an opponent’s strengths as well; the one attempt I can recall backfired hilariously.

What do you want, for chrissakes? Between fantasy football, the dick jokes and having to come up with Secret Service code names, I’d say their platters are pretty full. You know, this is just another example of how “Joe the fucking Plumber” and all those so-called “working class heroes” salt of the earth morons haven’t a clue about what it’s like to run this country. Not a fucking clue. And do you realize how expensive air time is nowadays? They can only fit so much into the message and they have to prioritize and some shit gets left out, see? Some shit gets left out. You think you can do better?

Trump wants to destroy the lines.

Bernie wants single-payer. Hillary wants to slowly move Obamacare forward.

Cruz wants to repeal the ACA and as far as I know is also on team lines. Same for Rubio.

The lines thing is funny. If there was money to be made why wouldn’t the insurance companies just open up offices in each state. Shit… They already do.

@johnpowell “I don’t repeat myself. I don’t repeat myself.”

Sigh. By far the worst thing about this election is that all media outlets are going to run to Trump for comments on politics until the last syllable of recorded time. What a waste.

On webMD they list all the candidates stance on health insurance. They have Ben Carson still on there but they are all on there.

You can also look on their individual sites.

Bernie and Trump are the only two in my opinion who acknowledge the costs are do to greed and theft. Acknowledging the problem is the first step to solving it, the other candidates forget it. Obama talked about giving everyone health care, but not about cracking down on costs. What did we get? More people covered and still extremely expensive health care with thieves still working the system. I guess I will add that Kasich to me seems to care about better health services, I’m not sure how well it will work. Maybe it will save money? It sounds a lot like it’s having GP’s do more of the doctoring, and I always cringe a little when politicians talk about how much we need more GP’s to do initial look-sees. Maybe instead of emergency room visits, but not instead of specialists in my opinion.

Trump wants to believe competition will bring down prices; I have serious doubts it will. Very serious doubts. Plus, after what I just went through with shopping for health insurance I am even more in favor of socialized medicine than I was before. My only fear is I see how my Inlaws’ doctor is a thief and they are on Medicare. Know one is calling out the fraud.

@JLeslie :: Obama tried and there was no possible way any sort of single payer system would have gotten through. Remember all the town halls that turned weird?

I got Obamacare. I went from no insurance to reasonable insurance for 40 bucks a month. And you should be glad I did because my GP for two decades was the Emergency Room.

@johnpowell I know he settled for what he could pass. Single payer doesn’t cure the system if the doctors still can rob the government.

I don’t feel like medical professionals who want to save money oversee health care. No third party checking simple things like wasted doctor visits on regular blood test results. This was finally fought federally, and now patients can have direct access to blood test results. I’m sure the AMA must have fought it tooth and nail. I have a ton if examples of gouging in the system. None of it was cured with obamacare as far as I can see.

My husband lost his job, and obamacare will basically cost me the same as cobra, which is a fortune. Over $800 a month and my deductible is $1500 each (the deductible is relatively low) but I can use my HSA money to pay the premium. If I get outside insurance I can’t use my HSA. I did have one insurance company that could get me a significantly cheaper premium, but the girl trying to sign us up encouraged us to lie on the application and in the fine print it says the policy is not ACA compliant so we are subject to penalties. When we asked her about that she said everyone else just answers to the government that they have medical insurance and they haven’t heard of any problems. System is still completely fucked up.

Hillary is right to say if we stick with what we have it needs to be improved. I’ll give her that. I was hopeful about her initially, because during her husband’s administration she seemed to be really delving into health care costs, but I don’t hear her talking specifically enough anymore. I don’t know what to think.

@JLeslie :: I totally understand. It is a massive ball of hurt. And ideally we would take insurance companies out of the equation. All they do is suck profit at our expense.

What fucking kills me is that there are tested systems that work and we seem to lack the ability to look at them and say they are better than us so lets try that and tweak as needed.

Nothing better illustrates the conflict between capitalism & the public good than the delivery of health care and pharmaceuticals in the United States. Only the tax system can match it for hopeless complexity and needless frustration. All of the complexity and the ever climbing and clearly unsustainable crushing expenses associated with our setup are for the most part necessary to insure not the citizenry, but rather the profits to parasites preying on captives trapped through government mandates. The mandates of course are convoluted because they are designed by the parasites themselves for their own self enrichment at the crippling and unnecessary expense of their victims.

Because the candidates can’t win. And because there is no chance of political gain, they stay away from it.

Obama got skewered for having the ACA idea (even though it was a republican idea). So no republican is going to support that. But they have no better idea (because there isn’t a better idea.

Health care as an issue is toxic.

@JLeslie If you want to know what their plans are WebMD has it listed. I placed the link above in my previous answer.

@Pandora I had read something similar recently. I just read through your link and the one promising thing I saw was Hillary wants better price transparency. She also mentioned shortening the patent period on bio drugs, but that probably will cause even higher prices initially if it’s not controlled in other ways also.

Still, no one besides Sanders and Trump really talks about the price we are being charged for health care, mostly the candidates are talking about being able to afford the costs with tax savings and write-offs.

I want examples from then regarding how they understand the system works. Examples of the gouging. Examples of people being charged $3k for an MRI when billed through insurance, but only $700 to self pay. $15 for a blood test, or $125 through insurance. $7k a day for a hospital stay, or $1500 self pay. And, then, tell me what they are going to do a out that? It’s way more complicated than just doctors and insurance making money; add in, lawyers use the bigger number for lawsuits, even though it’s not the amount that was paid. It’s truly a racket in so many different ways.

As broken as this disgraceful lack-of-system is, it isn’t broken enough. It’s like the old truism about someone or something needing to hit rock bottom before reforms will happen. Insurance providers continue to make obscene amounts of money and have power and resources to keep the status quo in place.

^^I said the same to my parents a few months ago. It just isn’t bad enough yet. I think a big problem is employers pay for a portion of the coverage. The majority of the country still doesn’t know how much it all is really costing.

Never fear. It WILL get worse. The country will eventually be forced into government financed universal health care, simply because it is the cheapest, fairest, and most efficient way to solve the problems. Everyone everywhere else in the world knows this, and of course we know it too. The question is: Exactly why is it that WE ALONE load our people up with the financially crippling and convoluted mess to in order to enrich insurance and pharmaceutical corporations?

@stanleybmanly ~Because supply-side economics is so flawless and perfect in every way that anyone who disagrees is a Satanic baby-molesting Muslim Socialist welfare recipient jihadist who hates America and Jesus and wants to steal your money.

@JLeslie You seem to be complaining because the Affordable Care Act has not made insurance more affordable for you. But the idea behind the Affordable Care Act or any socialized medicine program is to make insurance affordable for people who otherwise simply couldn’t afford it at all, like @johnpowell. Your family income being quite high, you are expected to pay more, so that @johnpowell can pay less (obviously, this is a gross oversimplification). Under a single payer system, you would still be paying more (presumably not as much, because fewer middlemen), just presumably through your taxes instead of to an insurance company. Now, both you and @johnpowell are insured, and neither of you is paying more than you can afford. Is that not exactly what the Act set out to do?

The first analysis of Trump’s Plan is out today. 21 million people would lose insurance.

^^As long as they are the right 21 million, who gives a damn? Bleeding fucking hearts, all of you.

@dappled_leaves Not exactly. I’m saying the ACA did not make my insurance any less expensive, maybe more expensive, and I am happy to help I sure those who have lower incomes, but my biggest gripe is the overall expense for healthcare in America.

Our healthcare is much more expensive than other countries. People pull out examples of waiting for an MRI in Canada, know what? Canada started purchasing more MRI machines when it became apparent they didn’t have sufficient quantity. Maybe the should have addressed it sooner, but eventually they did. I had to wait 3 months for a dermatology appointment. I had to wait 3 months for a regular GYN appointment. It happens in America in our system too. Just depends where you live.

My father got his MRI appointment within a few days. He just opted to go off hours when business is slow. His diagnostics are done at a military hospital that has an ER, so the MRI is available 24 hours a day. The person who runs it is salaried whether someone is inside of the machine or not. It basically costs almost nothing to give him an MRI, except electricity and the wear and tear on the machine I guess. In the private sector they make a profit. A big profit. I don’t see how this example can’t drive home why parts of healthcare would be much cheaper under a socialized system.

I’m not arguing for Canada’s system by the way. Canada also pays doctors few for service. There has to be a better way.

@JLeslie I have never said ours was the best, but regardless health care must be made affordable to everyone not just those that can afford the over priced insurance or get it through work benefits.

The States want their population ready to die for their country, but don’t get sick or ill because then your on your own.
The Staes have a top of the line medical system, I find it sad and disturbing that 55million of your population can’t afford to access that system.

^^^ It’s deplorable. Yes, there are excellent hospitals and health care providers in this country, but access is a privilege rather than a right.

@SQUEEKY2 How much does your health system cost the individual on average? On a percentage basis of income?

To give you an idea, I think we had to report $90k from my husbands salary and severance and a bonus, and that means paying $850 a month on average for us to be insured, plus the high deductible ($3,000 combined) plus after satisfying the deductible we pay 20% I think of services and medication. If I go out of network I have a separate deductible, which is higher, and a higher percent to pay after. I vaguely remember my husband saying around an income of $70k is where it tops out. So, if you make $300k it still costs you the $850 a month.

Seems really high to me for our estimated salary this year. Easily over 10% of our income when it’s all said and done.

Our system if you don’t get through work costs the average person $100 a month, and if you can prove poverty for those it’s free.

Your system is way to high for the average person, but the right fight to keep it where it is ,I guess they think the less fortunate can just go die ,before they see affordable health care for everyone.

@SQUEEKY2 When you say $100 per month, is this a separate item on your tax return, or are you figuring out the proportion of your taxes that goes towards healthcare? That’s a lot for a line item, I think.

When I first moved to Alberta, they charged a monthly fee of $45 across the board, instead of leaving it all to people’s income tax, then eventually they switched to income tax only, which makes far more sense.

Here in Quebec, there is a line item on our tax return for contributions to the health services fund – I don’t pay now, because I’m a student, but the maximum anyone can pay is $150 per year. This is a new thing as of 2010.

However, far more money is allotted from our taxes to healthcare – but I’m not even sure those numbers are easily obtained. I looked quickly just now, and couldn’t find them.

@dappled_leaves That is what BC med charges if your not covered by your work place benefits, I also know a person that makes less than 10g a year and for him it’s free.

@SQUEEKY2 Right, that makes sense. But of course, the actual amount that each citizen pays into the healthcare system comes from their income tax, and that means your friend is not getting “free” healthcare, it’s just not explicitly shown on his tax return. These line items are ways to supplement the portion of our taxes that goes to healthcare.

^^So, if I understand correctly you don’t know how much exactly you’re paying into the medical system. Or, how much each income level is paying in.

@JLeslie I don’t. We don’t tend to think about it at all, to be honest. I mean, I’m sure the information is publicly available, it’s just not coming up on the first page of a google search. There are presumably tax wonks discussing it in blogs somewhere.

I mean, I suppose one could look at the per capita healthcare costs, and divide it by the population to get an average figure, but obviously, that’s not accurate. People who make more money contribute more, but it comes out of the total tax collected. Frankly, I like this – it eliminates the griping that comes with knowing “He’s paying X, why am I paying 10X?” Because obviously that happens; it’s part of the social contract.

^^I care per person on average compared to the US. It’s not necessary for me to analyze by income at this point, although I would find it interesting. From what I understand the US pays much more person, I don’t remember the numbers.

Honestly, what kind of plan do you want from a candidate?

Irregardless of Mr. Trump’s beliefs, the President doesn’t make decree’s or wield a magic wand. Anything the Executive Branch does has to be in coordination with the Legislative and Judicial branches.

IMO the only realistic goals for the next President are dismantling parts of the ACA and solidifying the ACA.
Repealing the ACA and mandating a single payer system are not realistic. Hillary (as much as it sickens me to say so) Clinton is the best chance Americans have at continued and slowly expanding universal health care system.

Trump, of course, could always promise he’ll give free health care to every white, Christian, 2nd+ generation American and make the hospitals pay for it.
For He speaks the truth.

@JLeslie Ah, well that’s not hard to find. Per capita spending on healthcare by country. Looks like we spend about half as much per person as the US does.

Yeah @dappled_leaves and at least all we Canadians can access it without worry of financial ruin or hard ship.

@SQUEEKY2 Indeed. I can’t overstate how secure it makes me feel to know that if I have any kind of medical concern, it will be taken care of and my finances will not be affected.

I just saw a commercial with Hillary saying she is going after predatory pharmaceutical companies. I had decided today that the vote I cast tomorrow will be for her and that ad made me feel better about my final decision.

Wow, I’m sorry to hear that. :(

But I’m very glad you’re voting. :)