What is your opinion of B&B (or motel) owners turning away gay couples on religious grounds?

I do not support discrimination on bogus religious grounds..The supposed religious issues are homophobic present day interpretations of things which do not actually condemn things like same sex couples.

Sounds like they’re more afraid of their god than they are of going out of business.

B&B…Bigots & Bullshitters

They wouldn’t get my business. I’m not a lesbian but I refuse to support such discrimination. And fuck religion.

They should be free to discriminate, and we should be free not to patronize their business.

I don’t support such behavior, and it makes little sense financially, but there are reasons, and religion is only one slice of the pie.
Like it or not, discrimination is a character trait inherent in our species, and frankly most other mammals. To simply object will do little if nothing to change that. We have preferences within us. While I don’t support discriminatory behaviors, I also don’t object to humans being allowed to follow personal choices, if nobody is harmed. If the proprietors are opposed to certain persons or behaviors, stay the hell somewhere else, duh.
If persons do not wish their choices infringed, they should effort to not infringe the choices of others.

Generally I think that the business should be free to do as they chose. They can kick you out for not wearing a shirt and I am cool with that.

But then I remember that when my mom was a kid there were white only restaurants and bubblers. And I think we can all agree that was wrong.

So I guess that sort of boils down to if your actions are a choice or not. I personally don’t think being gay is a choice so in my mind it falls into the same category as being black and deserves protections.

It’s atrocious and unacceptable. I read about a bakery that wouldn’t bake wedding cakes if they knew they were for a gay couples marriage.
A guest is a guest and a damn cake is a cake, just get over it!

While I am not generally in favor of discrimination, a B&B is a bit different. A store or bakery may be a piece of property you won, but it’s a bit different when it’s your actual home rather than merely a workplace.

However, motels do not get any such sympathy from me as I consider commercial retail property to be public enough that they need to either turn a blind eye or shut their doors and go under.

I’m wondering how they know that the couple is gay. I have traveled with female friends and we’re not gay, but have slept in the same room (and sometimes same bed). You can’t say someone looks gay, because what does gay look like? Do they ask the guest “Are you gay?”

Anyone that will give anyone a specific reason for turning them away – particularly a religious reason – deserves to me sued.

If a same sex couple makes it clear to the owner of a B&B they are traveling as a “couple”, then the owner has the choice to deny them service.

The owners of a B&B have a responsibility to host the customers they feel they can best serve.

If the owner of a B&B makes if clear to a same sex couple that they are being denied service because they are a same sex couple, then the couple should have the recourse of suing.

One word: Dispicable.

I feel that a business should have the right to discriminate on such grounds, but they should likewise be legally require to post public notice of such policies so the rest of us can make an informed choice to patronize their business or not.

B&B is a business and should be held accountable to the same laws as other businesses.

Those poor B&B owners. So busy here in the US, alone!
Why all the laundry sheets to wash from the guests -plus those they wear to the cross-burnings on their ‘religious grounds’ at night! Or the ground in some front yards, parks, churches, etc.

It’s good in a way. If they do that then other entrepreneurs will have better chance to establish gay-only motels.

I’m torn. In many states in the US, if you are open to the public you cannot legally discriminate based on sexual orientation. However, I think there are still states you can. As far as I know there is not a federal law regarding this.

Many labor laws, and even for renting out your property, have thresholds. If under a certain amount of employees you basically don’t have to follow equal opportunity laws. Also, if you rent out one place that you own you can discriminate, but in many states once you own 4 or more units you now have to comply with all the laws of equality.

My thing is, if a couple books a room online or on the phone, how would the B&B owner even know it is a gay couple? And, then what? Two men show up and the owner turns them away? Away from there vacation weekend, or after 8 hours of driving? Just no. I guess the B&B would have to make it very clear in their website and when booking that no gay couples are allowed. What if I was staying with a friend of the same sex? I sleep in a king with friends or my sister if two beds aren’t available. Hell, I can sleep with my sister on her sofa! I did it when she was renovating. I’ve slept in doubles with 4 of us in the room. That would be a gay orgy LOL.

I just don’t see how you can discriminate for lodging. I actually defended a photographer not wanting to photograph a gay wedding, and the cake thing I went back and forth, but lodging? No. Restaurants also. No.

@JLeslie: That’s what I was saying up above. Also, in thinking about it further, what says someone of the same sex doesn’t show up and are not “traveling as a couple” but then they end up “as a couple?” In other words, start out platonic as just friends but then end up having sex? How would the owner even know?

@jca It’s stupid. It’s just another hateful thing. Back in day you had to be married to check into a hotel in some places, or you were expected to be married. I doubt they actually checked your license. My point is casting judgement regarding sex has been around a long time. Ironically, gay people were better off in some ways (I use that for lack of better words) than straight people back in the day when people were very ignorant to gay people even existing. Hotels, college dorm rooms, boarding schools, all sorts of examples where they got to screw around without anyone suspecting while heterosexuals were kept separate.

How is it hateful? Nobody is hitting anyone with sticks. Nobody is shouting threats. They are simply turned away, as I read this question. So? Some restaurants turn people away for their attire. It isn’t hateful, it is just catering to a specific clientele. I don’t want to eat there. I don’t feel hated for not being welcomed.
I see a lot of these issues as people seeking a sense of superiority from shouting accusations of hate.
I would see it differently if the subject were being turned away from care at a hospital or clinic, but a small private business of non essential services is different.
Most of the people I know are too well centered to take up arms because of a simple exclusion at one small business.

@Here2_4 It is blatant discrimination. Turning someone away for their attire is not the same thing as turning someone away based on an unchangeable factor. Discrimination by nature is hateful.

Its nothing to do with superiority at all. Its got to do with professional attitudes. It is not professional to be running any business and alienating potential customers. As I pointed out in the original post, it is bad marketing strategy. And it is. Plain and simple. No need to be sugar coating the issue and calling it anything other than it is.

So then, you were not asking a question, you were attempting to make a point.
I reserve the right to disagree with you. Discrimination by definition is not hate, it is preference; choice. Business owners of non essential goods and services should be allowed to have choices. They are allowed to choose whether or not to stock their coolers with Pepsi Cola, and that is a choice. If they want to make choices of clientele, that too should be their right.
Who they choose to do business with should not be mandated.

@Here2_4 What you need understand here, is that when I ask a question like this. I am providing my opinion while seeking the opinions of others. It is perfectly acceptable to be interjecting my own opinions into opinion based topics. This is an opinion based topic. Now while we are all sharing our opinions, I am free to disagree with them.

Discrimination by definition is a prejudiced attitude towards different people. Its exclusion. So I would argue based on that description that is by nature very much an act of hate. So I totally disagree with you on that point.

Yes private businesses are allowed to have choices. However (and I realise this can vary in the United States) but in many nations there are anti-discrimination laws. This is particularly true for many European countries, which is actually very relevant for this article (since this is an issue that was raised by a European politician).

And I don’t think your comparison with product brands is particularly helpful to this topic at all. We are talking about people i.e. human beings; not pieces of food. Quite frankly I find this comparison to be dehumanising. This is an issue about human beings and the treatment of human beings. They are not pieces of food.

As far as my opinion goes, every business owner should be prepared to trade in an open market. If they are not prepared to do that and treat all customers equally, in my opinion they don’t deserve to be running a business. And I do regard them as unprofessional.

I happen to work for a very well known health and beauty franchise and I’m not allowed to pick and choose my customs. In fact the very company I work for can’t establish policies that would allow this. Because if they did, they’d be sued for discrimination and quite rightly so.

So, opinions are welcome, but only so long as they make you happy. Well, I am in favor of other people being happy too. If that means allowing them to choose who they do business with, then so be it. As for what country mandates what is irrelevant, to an opinion question.
However, I can see I am not welcomed by you, and so unlike the couple in your scenario, I will go, willingly, and gladly.

@Here2_4 No, thats not it at all. Its not about me being made happy. Its about me being free to disagree. I try to look at everything objectively; as much as possible. You are free to disagree with me, and I am free to counter disagree with you. Its a two way process.

If you are suggesting that we should cater people’s happiness to the ends of allowing them the right to discriminate? I fully disagree with you there. I don’t think that business owners should have that right to discriminate. They should have to accept the idea that the business world is an open market for all, and a market place for equal opportunity for all. I don’t support discrimination under any circumstance. And I don’t think business owners should get special rights in that regard.

No, I don’t agree that what country mandates its laws is irrelevant at all. This is an opinion based question, but its an opinion based question based on a particular issue. A particular issue that occurred in Wales (which happens to be a European country). If you go back to my original post and source, you will see that.

“However, I can see I am not welcomed by you, and so unlike the couple in your scenario, I will go, willingly, and gladly.”

What? I never said you are unwelcome by me. Quite frankly, I don’t own Fluther. I’m just a regular member like everyone else. But when I have a point to make, I make it and I don’t apologise for it. Unless I happen to be wrong. You appear to be taking this personally. There is no need to be taking this personally. This isn’t about you as a person. Its about your opinion and I happen to disagree with it. I know I can be quite controversial with my opinions and I sugar coat very little. I’ve been debating all kinds of topics on the net for a very long time. My policy is honesty and its the best policy. But if you really want to leave Fluther over this, I suppose thats your choice. But just know that I would never wish that anyone should leave just because they disagree with me. By all means, disagree with me. I love when people disagree with me, it makes discussions that much more interesting.

Just don’t be taking things so personally, thats not what its about at all.

@Here2_4 Well, if you read my whole answer you see that I am kind of on the fence on some of the issues surrounding a business owner being able to refuse service to gay people. Lodging is tough for me to say it’s ok to discriminate, because I do think it’s wrong, and ridiculous, and there isn’t always another place to stay.

I say hate, because those people would obvious much prefer gay people didn’t exist. During the gay marriage debates a lot of people threw around that all the people against it were homophobic and I defended them saying I do not believe everyone against it is homophobic or even hateful, but not having a business open to all people equally feels hateful to me. But, maybe they don’t all hate, they just don’t approve, I’m willing to concede that.

This whole question just makes me tired.

A small, privately owned, business should be able to cater to whoever they like from heterosexual couples to single librarians with polka-dotted cats. That doesn’t give them the legal right to refuse service to gays or librarians with Siamese cats.

It’s not the Radisson. If they can’t manage the client list of a simple bed and breakfast without government intervention, they need to find something else to do. And if the gays can’t find some place to stay that welcomes them, they need to stay home.

Much ado about nothing. Fine the hell out of whoever brought suit.

They need to stay home? WTF?

Liki said, it needs to be an equal marketplace for all with equal opportunity. I have zero tolerance on discrimination. The customer always comes first.

I agree that I don’t comprehend the “they need to stay home” theory.

This idea of staying at home in reference to same sex couples is only a weak attempt to bend to conservative business owners wishes. Or more to the point, their beliefs. Same sex couples should not have to stay at home, that’s bullshit. They should have the same equal opportunity as any other customer.

This is another instance when I say parts of the majority just seems to be unable to understand what it is like to be the minority, and they need to become a little better at being able to imagine being in someone else’s shoes, because one day they will be.

What do you want to be the law if you are the minority? I say this to Christians in my country when they talk about prayer in school. Mind you, I am only talking about the Christians who want it, there are plenty of Christians not looking to have prayer in school. I ask them, “if you lived in a country 70% Muslim, and the majority of the teachers are Muslim, do you still want prayer in school led by a teacher or staff member?” I’ll tell you 90% of the people I’ve asked that to reply either, “I wouldn’t live in a place like that,” or, they are dumbfounded. No answer. Silent on the matter. I’d say they are confused. I point out that is my situation. 70% of the country is Christian and I’m not. The other 10% have a little bit of an epiphany I think.

What if Napa Valley, very gay friendly, decides, eh we don’t want straight people staying at our inns and B&B’s? Maybe Ft. Lauderdale, DC, NYC, San Fran, join in. What if Detroit airport area restaurants decide not to allow Christians as the Muslim population gets bigger and bigger there? I think it’s already around 30%. You can stay at the hotels, but many nearby restaurants won’t serve you.

And fast forward to today, the same stunt was pulled; but this time in Illinois. The couple were not only refused on religious grounds, but sent a homophobic email. The B&B in question has been now fined $80,000. Thats what I call justice and thats what I call karma.

Maybe one day these companies will realise that discrimination is not ok. Maybe the will realise the are operating under an open market place for all. You don’t discriminate against your customers

And @JLeslie That was an excellent response. Very well put.

@NerdyKeith: I hope Timber Creek Bed and Breakfast in Illionois gets blasted on social networking sites for being homophobic.

@jca I hope so too, I tweeted the article the moment I heard about it.

Bed and breakfast, was my specific reference.
If the only place I would stay is at a bed and breakfast, and I could not find a bed and breakfast that I felt would offer me a pleasant experience, I would stay home.

The whole point of a bed and breakfast is a cozy, homelike, atmosphere. Why would a gay couple sue for the right to live like a homophobe?
I’m sure Timber Creek is tickled shitless at the national exposure, and are probably booked through 2010 hosting homophobic functions.

I don’t condone the homophobic bed and breakfasts, but it’s not realistic to believe we’re going to legislate them out of existence. Small, individually owned and run businesses are allowed a degree of autonomy. Imagine applying the Disabilities Act to a Victorian B&B.

Yes, everyone loves to decry the loss of the “mom and pop” shops, and blame big bad Walmart. That’s great as long as mom and pop can afford to keep a corporate lawyer on retainer.

@ibstubro Ok I see where you’re coming from here. But with all due respect not everyone agrees that staying in a B&B is living like a homophobe. Not all B&Bs are run by homophobes. I am certainly not advocating to legislate B&Bs out of business, but anti-discrimination laws can be and have been legislated.

If they can’t play by the rules, they need to get out of the game. Amid I would say there are a lot of them that do play by the rules.

I wonder if the owners don’t want to condone being gay? Or, are uncomfortable being around gay people? Or, are afraid, like being afraid of the unknown?

“Imagine applying the Disabilities Act to a Victorian B&B.”

You don’t have to imagine because it does apply. Simply being in an old house does not exempt a business from the ADA.

“The FHA does not apply to all hosts. The FHA contains exemptions for owner-occupied buildings with no more than four units, single-family housing rented without the use of a broker if the private individual owner doesn’t own more than three such single-family units at one time, and housing operated by organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to members and so long as all advertising is nondiscriminatory. There is also a bed-and-breakfast or rooming house exemption for properties “containing living quarters occupied or intended to be occupied by no more than four families living independently of each other, if the owner actually maintains and occupies one of such living quarters as his or her residence which might apply to some hosts’ listings.

That was my point way up above. There are exemptions for small business regarding all sorts of rules. ADA, affirmative action, EEOC, etc.

I wasn’t equating B&B with homophobia.

Put another way:
If you operated a B&B that catered specifically to trans and trans-friendly people – a sanctuary – would you feel comfortable hosting a couple that stated they were honeymooning after re-affirming their wedding vows at the Westboro Baptist Church?
No.
And “no” is all you have to say. If you moralize it, you may open yourself up to litigation.

But even then, as the owner of a small, privately held business, it should be your right to run your business as you see fit, and the public can choose to be clients, or not.

Again, I’m not defending companies or corporations, but “mom and pop shops” that are trying to fill a niche market as they see fit.

I don’t think litigation is the way to solve every dispute. Even worse, approaching every dispute as though it could lead to a lawsuit has made things crazy.
I ate at the local Mexican joint this evening and the drink menu offered, Sex on the Beach. The word “sex”, of course, being the equal of “fuck” in the Bible Belt. Conversely, I’ve seen the drink special “Sex on the Beach!” written on the bar board in chain restaurants – that have that corporate attorney on board.