Would you regard this as bad customer service?

It’s not the best service but I would usually just take the onions off myself and not make a big deal about it.

The chances were excellent that the server had been reprimanded for substituting, so would then be adamant about not. Or maybe someone from corporate was there that day. Or any one of a dozen things.
I might have been very slightly irritated for a moment, but no more than that. Retail and food service are really quite different to work within, so the circumstances aren’t going to be comparable.

I don’t think it’s uncommon to insist on no changes/substitutions when a restaurant offers a great “Deal”. They have the cost 100% dialed in, including labor. You change the paradigm, you change the cost.

Taco Bell, my favorite fast-food restaurant, once tried to charge me 35¢ to leave the meat off of a hard shell taco. Once. But in that case, I think the cash register computer changes the price automatically when the order is entered. The order taker has no control over it.

I would not expect to pick a different filling for such a special price. Maybe it was a slow day. Maybe the server did not know the rules.
For €3.25 off the regular price I’d just pick out the onions myself and be happy with the deal.

I can sort of see their side of the issue. The way that they can offer the lower price is because they can make the sandwiches quickly and have a predictable volume of service (and of acquiring the supplies).

You’re throwing a spanner in the works by causing them to deviate from their plan. Basically you want the monetary benefit, but not the other side of the bargain – the mass produced, one size fits all offering. I would make the analogy as follows: The auto dealer has a really good sale on black sedans (only) – you go to the dealer and say, “I want the deal, but on a red car”. They would be perfectly correct in telling you “no”.

Bottom line: the restaurant has a point.

I can see the point of the deal but I think if the server spoke to you the way you quoted her (or him), she could have been a bit nicer. “No, I’m sorry, there are no substitutes with the deal.” It sounds like the language she used was a bit “resistant” or harsh.

You lost your chance to make your point over your displeasure over this server not accommodating your simple request and not taking your business elsewhere. Me I would have asked the server to please let you speak to the manager to discuss the matter. And if the manager some how says Friday’s substitution at no cost was a server error….then make a point to ask them to post a notice on the menu that substitutions will be an extra cost.

Did the server speak to you in a courteous manner? Was her tone pleasant? If yes, she was likely following her employer’s instructions. She might have already been scolded for having provided substitutions with a special, fixed-price lunch deal.

I fully understand that it’s difficult to pick-out the onions from a toasted sandwich; the contents get melted and melded. But, the restaurant met you halfway by omitting the onions.

You expected something different, were disappointed, and were left with a vague sense of having been treated badly. From how you’ve described the incident, however, it doesn’t seem that the restaurant was unreasonable.

Clearly since you were accommodated the first time around, the decision is within the domain of the server involved. Perhaps the sandwiches are sitting around having been made in advance. Or maybe the shrew that caught you the second time has a bug up her ass. And no I don’t agree that this is a little thing. I fully understand wanting your food the way you want it. My reaction to “no switching the fillings” would be to instead request “no onions”. And yes I regard the woman’s attitude as poor customer service.

They made up a lunch special and offered it at a special price. To have to change it makes a lot more work. I think they are within their rights to say that the special price is for the advertised combination.

pickles or relish instead of onion hardly passes for “a lot more work” unless the sandwiches are premade and piled up somewhere. I guess the remedy would be to request the condiment you desire, doctor the sandwich in front of the woman, then hurl the onions at her insolent face.

I’d have pulled a D-Fens (Falling Down) on her, no gun though, instead i’d have used a withering tone coupled with a determined glare

“But on Monday when I was on my lunch, they refused. The server said, “No, the deal is strictly ham, tomato, cheese and onion.

I asked her if I could simply pay extra for another filling and she said, “No, if you want to pick the fillings you’ll have to pay about €10.00 because it won’t be the special offer.”

Where in that ^ ^ ^ is there any indication of discourtesy? Maybe the server was new, maybe at lunch it was busy, maybe, in general, she was sick of customers making special requests in a situation that prohibited special requests. Imagine just how much fun her job must be during a busy lunch hour.

I think the way @NerdyKeith described the server’s wording sounded like she was being a bit more harsh than I’d like someone in service to be. Not that I want my a** kissed, but I’d like to not hear “No” and “No.” I’d like to hear “I’m sorry, but….” and maybe a suggestion about a work-around, or an explanation (“The sandwiches are pre-made and so we can’t put anything else in them” or “they’re going to post a no-substitutions on the menu”) or something like that. When I feel like the server is just being resistant for the sake of being resistant, I’m tempted to talk to management and ask them.

true. She may be at the end of her rope and it’s just your luck to be in front of her when the rope unravels. I suppose my issue is with that word “fillings”. Now while it is certainly out of line to request a substitution of steak for ham or lobster for cheese, “hold the onions” is a reasonable request.

Does anyone else read the phrase “no substitutions” and immediately think of “Five Easy Pieces”?

What can you substitute for onions that can cause such a burden? Or, to put it in a more positive light, Why are substitutions not a possibility? It’s hard to see past this, especially after another server did it for you. At a place I go, they have a special just like this. I prefer my sandwich on dark rye and they have no problem doing that.

“No, if you want to pick the fillings you’ll have to pay about €10.00 because it won’t be the special offer.”

I’d say this is a “harsh” way of putting it, like how @jca described. Not the best service, but not bad service.

I took a huge chunk out of my original post because I felt like I was glorifying myself.
Anyways, I’ll add some of it here because I think it helps with the discussion. Often times, servers are told by the management to do things that don’t make logical sense to the server (or at all). For instance, at my place we’re told not to give out tap water. When people complain, we’re the ones who have to bear it, not the idiots who made the ridiculous rule. That being said, I sometimes use my own judgment, and perhaps that’s what the Friday server did. ( It may not have been explicitly stated that those were the only condiments that you could get on the sandwich. )

No one does customer service like America. (I’m not being sarcastic, I’m serious. I’ve learned to adjust my expectations when I’m in another country)

@dxs Are you saying that the staff is ordered to refuse requests for a glass of water?

There’s a reason the special is the special. Making alterations defeats the purpose.

Food cost is the single most important consideration in a restaurant. It can mean the difference between success and failure.

Hopefully the server was pleasant and professional about the issue.

…Maybe they had a surplus of onions, hence the good deal!

I’d anonymously talk with the manager, really low key, without mentioning any names or other specifics, ask his or her take on it.

@stanleybmanly Just guessing that they want to use bottled water, not tap water, so they can charge the customer. I don’t know though.

You know what’s funny about the tap water thing? Even Disney World and Disney parks, which many might think of as one of the more expensive places to spend some time, they give out cups of tap water just for the asking. No purchase required. A lot of people don’t know that. Eliminates the need to lug your own bottles of water to the parks.

@SecondHandStoke: We’re saying it sounds like the server’s wording was a bit unnecessarily harsh.

Well, they have tap water in the bathrooms, and water fountains all over the place too, I’d think @jca.

@Dutchess_III: But at the counters, you get ice, too, which is nice in the Florida heat.

@Dutchess_III: Also, if you’re in a restaurant, maybe the water at a fountain or bathroom is not too convenient. Maybe you’d like a cup of water with your meal.

I guess it’s just a difference in perception, @jca, I don’t see it as harsh so much as efficient. Of course I wasn’t there, but a sandwich shop at lunch time is likely to be busy, and a firm response is less likely to encourage a time-sucking argument than one that sounds more friendly and engaging.

@stanleybmanly I work fast food, so if you’ve been to a few fast food joints you’ve probably ran into one that wouldn’t give you tap water. I think it’s more popular in urban areas. Anyways, I hate when places do this, so I asked the manager why we did this. He said the people above said it was because of liability. Tap water isn’t good for people with health problems—his example was people with kidney problems. There was a lawsuit a while back because someone got sick from the water since they thought it was filtered.

I give out tap water and I make it clear that it’s tap water. All water sources in a restaurant must be potable by law, so it won’t harm the average person.

I’m not too convinced by this reasoning. I think it’s to sell more bottled waters.

I just see it as the wording could have included “I’m sorry.” Possibly also a brief explanation.

It’s not a “customer service” establishment; it’s a restaurant. I don’t blame them for this. You can remove the onion but substitutions slow down the process and are just burdensome. Now if you are in a more expensive type of sandwich shop or an upscale restaurant, yes, go right ahead and ask for substitutions. I’m even seeing it more and more on menus that they do not do substitutions.

Customer service is a large part of what restaurants do, whether they’re fast food places or a fine dining establishment. Not that the service you get in a fine dining establishment will be the same as you’ll get in a fast food joint, but if enough customers are alienated by the staff, they’ll not be returning. When you read reviews on sites like TripAdvisor, many talk about the food but an equal number talk about the service.

90% of people who are unhappy in a restaurant will just not return. They won’t complain, they just won’t come back. A restaurant should be happy to hear someone complain, because it’s an opportunity for them to know what’s going on and maybe make it right.

Well, @MollyMcGuire exactly what would you describe as a “customer service establishment”?

My apologies, @jca. You said it was convenient because you didn’t have to lug around bottles of water, so didn’t realize you were talking about sitting in one spot. I thought you were referring to the time you spend walking around the place. Sure, if you want ice, it only makes sense to go get a cup of water and ice and carry that around the park.

@Dutchess_III: I was referring to any time at all – sitting in restaurant, sitting on a wall, walking around, just wanting a drink that doesn’t require standing at a fountain or finding a bathroom, whatever.

I just thought it was so you don’t have to “lug water around” with you. To my mind, carrying around a cup of ice water to drink when you’re sitting on a wall or walking around is the same as “lugging.”

@Dutchess_III: A few family members getting their 12 oz cups of water and then discarding the cup is different than lugging 20 oz. x several bottles all day long.

@Love_my_doggie Oh yes she was courteous about it. This is more got to do with management then the server. Which is why I did not argue with her. It was not her fault.

….X several bottles? Why would you need more than one bottle @jca? Can’t you just reuse the same one over and over?

@Dutchess: I’m talking about a parent carrying bottles for the family.

Whenever I’ve gone to an event that requires a lot of wandering around the only thing I carry with me is a debit card, my driver’s license and my keys. If I had a family that included very small children with me (which I seriously don’t think I would at such a huge place as Disney World. I’d wait till they were older.) then the only possible exception would be pushing a stroller. In that case I might carry an empty two litter bottle with me, stash it under the stroller, and refill it from time to time. I certainly wouldn’t haul around multiple bottles of water in addition to a stroller.

That makes 0 sense to me when you have water all around you that you just don’t want to drink for whatever reason.

@Dutchess_III ” the only thing I carry with me is a debit card, my driver’s license and my keys.”

You lie. Through your teeth. I’ve seen plenty of photographs of you, so I know how nice you look. You have to be packing a hairbrush and lipstick, minimum. I was born female; I know of what I speak.

LOL!!! And I spend HOURS on the TOILET with a compact mirror getting my face back to 21!

@Dutchess : that’s you. Many people would bring bottles of water or buy water or buy soda. Many places don’t give out cups because the management counts the cups.

I’m done arguing about Disney’s free water. My point is it’s free and people don’t have to bring in their own. That’s all.

Here’s the thing, the restaurant did the request a few days before. Possibly, the OP got lucky, and usually they don’t allow it with the special, but it obviously isn’t that they can’t do it, or they are premade in a way that it’s impossible. Just to drive that point home, she said it could be done for €3.25 more. That’s a lot more! For a topping substitution on a sandwich?

I agree with @jca, it’s sounding like the server lacked customer service skills. I’m assuming she was a different server than the one back on Friday. She could have handled it better.

Moreover, it is absolutely correct that a complaint is better than an annoyed customer saying nothing. The restaurant probably should write “no substitutions” for the special, unless they are fine with substitutions. We don’t really know.

I only want lettuce on my sandwiches usually. The establishment can save almost $1 on me probably if I’m ordering a salad and sandwich. No tomatoes, no cheese, no onions. I know customizing can be a pain, I’m empathetic to that, but regarding toppings, people like me help their bottom line if they accommodate. Plus, the OP was willing to pay for the substitution. That shouldn’t be more than $1 more.

I have a question; does “toasted sandwich” mean it’s a hot sandwich? Or, just that the bread is toasted?

As a side note: water in FL isn’t the best tasting, but I do drink from the tap. I wouldn’t drink it from the tap in a bathroom in Disney, but I would a fountain. I’m sure Disney reasons that it’s better to give away water than have someone pass out from hear stroke. Most places in America give out free tap water. My guess is a high percentage of Latin American Disney guests won’t drink from the tap, so your definitely getting a lot of drink sales off of them.

Lugging around anything in Disney is a pain in the a**.

@JLeslie I suppose the American equivalent term of a toasted sandwich would be a “melt”. Or a grilled cheese.

They basically put the entire sandwich it an oven until it is toasted.

O’Brian’s don’t do pre-made sandwiches, everything is made fresh there and then. They are a sandwich bar.

@JLeslie: Good point about Disney not wanting people to pass out from heat stroke. If they didn’t give out the water, and people didn’t have money to pay or didn’t want to pay, there might be medical issues.

People who have never been to a huge park like Disney have no clue. Even if you go in travling lightly, with maybe just a string backpack, you’re going to end up with brochures, pins, stuff. Plus I would probably bring my own water anyway just for convenience. Disney is definitely an ordeal, with the distance, the crowds and the heat. It’s fun but it’s also tiring.

I re-read your opinion to be sure I understood exactly what happened. So, the second time you had the sandwich with the onions left off.

I hate raw onions also, so here’s my take on the situation. I honestly can’t think of too many other toppings on a sandwich cheaper than onions, quite frankly. As others have mentioned, food places cost things out exactly to the penny, especially with high volume specials with lower prices.

I have never asked for something in place of onions. I just ask them to leave the onions off. Which is what you did and they accommodated that. If they insisted upon making it with onions and leaving you to remove them, I would definitely have had a big problem with that, especially on a melt. But they made it for you without the onions so I don’t get why you are put out.

Regardless of the fact that they added something for you in place of the onion the previous time, that doesn’t mean they’re obligated EVERY time. My guess is that the previous server was not as familiar with the policy and you got an unusual break.

You said that your problem is with mgmnt. policy rather than the server, so why not have a little chat with the manager next time? If he/she doesn’t explain to your satisfaction, then let them know you’ll be taking your business elsewhere.

But I personally don’t think it was bad customer service since this was a REDUCED PRICE special.

But perhaps if you press your case with someone in charge, things will change.

@Lmd

That iconic Jack Nicholson scene from “Five Easy Pieces” immediately flashed through my mind as soon as I read the question :)

Aren’t reduced priced specials usually to get rid of food before they have to throw it out? It’s like discounting aging merchandise. One exception is specials that occur regularly on a particular day of the week.

As an American, my perception of what is put on most sandwiches here in America is simply a matter of this is what is the standard. Lettuce, tomato, onion. In some parts of the country it’s those three things, and add mayo on the bread. Yuck! So, the person who likes the rote toppings is doing great, but someone who prefers something different is SOL? That’s annoying.

The more I think about it, the more I don’t accept it. I try to never change more than one thing when I order, trying not to be too annoying, but even at McDonald’s yesterday I ordered my burger with just ketchup. McDonald’s! If they can remove toppings, certainly any restaurant can.

@JLeslie Not always. This meal deal is an ongoing offer.

I agree with others that I would talk to the manager next if you really want the other topping. Sounds like you’re willing to pay a little more, so they wouldn’t be losing money. If the manager agrees it’s not a problem then he will know to tell the staff it’s not a problem and what to charge.

It’s. It really that big of an issue, I just wanted to hear other people’s thoughts on it.

I didn’t feel like you were making a big issue of it.

For those unfamiliar with the Jack Nicholson diner scene, here it is. It’s pretty clever.

(Not really suggesting you should try this, Keith, as I’m sure you’re much more polite :)
.
.

HOLD THE CHICKEN
—————————————————-
https://youtu.be/hdIXrF34Bz0

If the sandwiches are made fresh to order (not prepared in advance), and you were even willing to pay a little more for your topping of choice, then I don’t see why they couldn’t accommodate you. If the server had not addressed you in such an abrupt manner, you’d probably even have taken “no” for an answer but between the unreasonableness of what she said combined with the way she said it, to me it makes for bad customer service.

So, all this time, @NerdyKeith, I’ve been waiting with onion baited breath for the ‘reveal’ on this suspenseful sandwich caper –
“What topping did you want to substitute???”

@ibstubro: I’m curious too.

Absurd to come back to this Q again, I know, but there are so many factors still unaddressed.
For example, was anyone else within earshot the first time who may then have demanded a “special” special as well? @NerdyKeith made a point of saying that the second server was not discourteous. Really, the server does not want to engage, even saying “I’m sorry” in such a situation can be taken as an admission of remorse or wrongdoing, you would be surprised at how many people use this as an opening to argue with a server. (I learned quickly to be very careful of language in such circumstances). Stuff like that.
And no, it’s not difficult to change the order, but during a lunch rush it adds a lot of time if 5 or 10 people want to substitute. The adjustment needs to made to the pricing as well. It’s a matter of logistics.
By all means, talk to management, you may indeed get satisfaction.
But do understand, that it’s not a lack of customer service if you don’t, it’s simply business.

@canidmajor Although, I can see why you say remorse can seem like an opening to argue, I have to say that when I see a lack of understanding from waiters, or gatekeepers in doctor’s office, or you name it, I just think they are total fucking mindless idiots, and it pisses me off. It is the worst way to “handle” me.

@canidmajor: @NerdyKeith stated ”I asked her if I could simply pay extra for another filling.”
If it’s a sandwich shop and they do “custom” sandwiches, and @NerdyKeith was willing and said he was willing to pay extra, I don’t see what the issue was. Furthermore, I know when I’m receiving customer service (restaurant, diner, phone shopping) and the person states things the way @NerdyKeith said she stated things, it would piss me off, too (apparently along with @JLeslie). There’s a way to say things and not sound resistant. There’s a way to say things and make a negative sound like a positive (“you can have the sauteed peppers instead for a dollar, how’s that? Sure, we can do that.”).

@ibstubro Sweetcorn of course. What else? haha

Tell me they do not offer sweetcorn on sandwiches in Ireland, @NerdyKeith.

At least now we know what they dreamed of during the potato famine.

@ibstubro Most sandwich bars and delicatessens in Ireland (and possibly the UK) have sweetcorn as a sandwich filling or salad ingredient. As a matter of fact, it’s quite common to mix tuna, mayonnaise and sweetcorn together. It is also available as a pizza topping in all of our pizza take away and restaurants.

I knew about pizza from you, here, @NerdyKeith. I love sweetcorn in my pasta salad, and tuna, mayo and corn sounds good. But corn seems especially peculiar as a sandwich filling, since it would fall out so easily.

@ibstubro It can fall out sometimes. But if its a toasted sandwich the cheese melts into it and keeping it in place.

I thought I ate some strange crap!

One thing I’ve found when there’s an issue is that it is usually helpful to talk to the management. Often, management (especially in chain restaurants and hotels) is very eager to have a satisfied customer. Many restaurant chains make sure the management is on board with doing almost anything to have a satisfied customer (I have a good friend in management at a big chain in the US and they will bend over backwards to ensure a happy customer, even if it means comping the meal right there on the spot).

So talk to management is my first thought (in pondering this some more today on the way to work).

Also, write reviews on TripAdvisor. Not that the review will help you at the time of the incident occurring, but it will let management know there may be an issue with a server or the service, or a policy. Maybe a change needs to be made, like there should be something saying “no substitutions.” Maybe there are substitutions and that particular server was being resistant. Unless you have a conversation with someone higher up and/or review to alert the higher ups, they’ll never know. Maybe other people have expressed confusion with the substitution rule, or had issues with this particular server (I’m not, here, saying there was an issue with the server, but maybe it was a server issue).

I’ve also written letters to management (corporate management, not the individual store/restaurant management) and gotten good results that way.

Just three ideas that may be helpful for the future.

The short answer, @NerdyKeith, is go with the flow.

The most inconsistent food chain in the US that I know of is Subway. The food you receive varies by outlet, time of day, and employee. I contacted Corporate and asked them if there was any standard for preparing a chopped salad, and they refused any inquiry not giving a time, date, and location.

It’s not customer service, it’s the vagaries of the minimum-wage driven quick-food industry. If your minimum standard is met – ham, cheese, tomato – eat it and go.

This would be a lot less trouble.

…How many people are now going to try a sweet corn sammich?

I’ve never had sweet corn. I am thinking it’s corn with added sugar?

It grows that way. It’s just another kind of corn, like popcorn or feed corn or Indian corn. I planted some in a random spot in my back yard the other day! I’m trying to make a jungle for the kids.

@jca

I think the term sweet corn is used to signify what people eat as opposed to field corn used for animal feed.

Nowadays, there are so many varieties of corn which have been developed for people’s palates who desire more natural sweetness.

I doubt they add sugar. I could be wrong about this, but I don’t think so. Hopefully, Keith can clarify.

It does have a naturally high sugar content. “Sweet corn is the result of a naturally occurring recessive mutation in the genes which control conversion of sugar to starch inside the endosperm of the corn kernel. ” Wiki. Farmers just breed it for that sugar content like you would breed for any other trait.

I think @Buttonstc is correct though. I think all corn that we buy for ourselves is sweet corn. M. I add butter, a bit of salt and onions, wrap them up in foil and throw them on the grill. Everybody loves corn!

I was wondering if “sweet corn” is something either cooked with sugar and canned that way, or slightly pickled (like vinegar and sugar like pickled beets).

No, it’s a naturally occurring genetic variation that they breed for. Nothing is added. If you want to grow your own you buy packets of seeds that say, “Sweet Corn” on them. I’m referring to ears of corn, not canned corn, which is also sweet corn, just in a can.

“Sweet corn is the result of a naturally occurring recessive mutation in the genes which control conversion of sugar to starch inside the endosperm of the corn kernel.” Wiki.