Is it possible to get over someone without closure?

If I loved you and was truly interested in your happiness, I would have to do something very painful. I would have to explain the present situation to her and that it was time to break it off. If she persisted, I would have to ghost her.

We all have former lovers. I have two that I’ll never forget and I remember them fondly after three and four decades respectively. But they happened at the wrong time in our lives. So, they’ve been relegated to that place in my mind that I sometimes go to, the land of fond memories. They are probably grandmothers by now and I hope they found good men and happiness.

They are where they belong, and so am I. They are in a place in my head where they are forever young and beautiful.

“Closure” isn’t a tangible, quantifiable thing.
Matt has the bar set impossibly high because he was young and idealistic and emotions were high. He has to lower the bar if he wants to let the dream go.

How does he communicate with her? Is it possible to open a 3-way dialogue? I personally think you might be making a mistake by asking him to break off with her. Better to widen the circle. Show an interest in getting to meet and know her, on-line. You need to help him take the shine off this former flame.

If that’s met with resistance, or doesn’t work I’d offer two explanations for Matt rekindling this after 2 years together.
There is the real possibility that you’re happier and more committed to your present relationship than Matt is.
It’s also possible that Matt is getting as comfortable with his relationship as you are, and that it subconsciously scares him. That he’s re-opening his youth and the illusion of free love.

I’d try to start a 3-way. Conversation.

From my experience, most of the people I ever have loved, I still have some feelings for. And the break-ups that hurt, still can cause me pain at times. So I’m saying for me, there hasn’t necessarily been closure – particularly in the failure of my marriage. It still gives me a pang of pain when I see him. But loving someone new subsumes those feelings so that they are more dormant. And I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to still have feelings for people you were close to.

However, if it was not in your contract to have an open relationship with intimacy with others allowed, I don’t think it is fair to you for him to keep this friendship alive now. I can completely understand your hurt and your desire for him to end communicating with her.

As opposed to @ibstubro‘s idea, I would not interject yourself into their conversations. That only muddies the waters and doesn’t solve anything. But it would be valuable for you and Matt to have some deep conversations about why he is engaging in this now and where he’s at in your relationship.

And don’t beat yourself up for the snooping; we all do it at times. It’s not honorable but it is human.

Glad to hear you talked about it with him. You each have some questions to answer.

Is he ready to completely cut off contact with her?

And, if his answer s no, not completely, are you able to live with him having communication with her?

To quote Dan Savage, this may be “the price of admission” to this long term relationship.

To speak to your original question: there is no such thing as “closure.” That is some pop psychology misdirection that people think is some event or action that ends a relationship and wraps it up in a bow and stashes it in a memory closet. The only relationships we truly “close” are ones where we cannot stand the other person. And no one asks for “closure” when leaving a relationship like that.

@zenvolo said it perfectly:
“To speak to your original question: there is no such thing as “closure.” That is some pop psychology misdirection that people think is some event or action that ends a relationship and wraps it up in a bow and stashes it in a memory closet. The only relationships we truly “close” are ones where we cannot stand the other person. And no one asks for “closure” when leaving a relationship like that”.

In my experience, it has never been about ”closure”, it has always been about moving on.
I can’t advise you better than anyone else here, but I wish you luck with this. Hopefully, he (and you) understand that one perfect night is rarely, if ever, indicative of a good relationship.

Sounds like he certainly took your invasion of his privacy well. That should say quite a bit. My perspective is that I still love all of my old girlfriends and that will never change. I have never cheated and I probably never will. I do still want to keep up with them and know how they are doing even if it’s indirect contact through email or facebook. If my wife started to look behind and investigate anything I do out of jealousy or fear I may leave or cheat with an old girlfriend we would not stay married long. It’s hard to be around that type of person. It’s not just a lack of trust it’s a deep insecurity. It’s a trap that you could fall into so don’t let it happen or ruin your current relationship.

You have a lot of good advice here…what I am curious about is how Matt is handling your snooping around in his private email or what ever place you made your discovery. That would for me would create a real big trust issue to overcome for both of you.

I have another thought. We have talked in my therapy about partners using an “exit” to distance themselves from the intimacy of their primary relationship. My Ex used his sailing club; I probably used the internet. What is going on between the two of you or within him that he is using this now?

I found out completely by accident that they were still communicating. Matt and I share an ipad and he left himself logged into facebook. The invasion was proceeding to read their messages once I realized there WERE messages, but I was not purposefully snooping around.

I just knew some people would have to make this all about me and my shortcomings! Please don’t kick me while I’m down.

First: I think you did nothing wrong.

Second: It’s almost impossible to get “closure” from one perfect night and rekindled emails. Relations over time bring out the negatives in people, and help us have a more balanced view. His closure should be it’s just one night, he doesn’t really know her, and any feelings that idealize her, are just that idealizing. If he knows that, I think he absolutely can put her memory in the proper place.

The big question is, will he stop communicating with her if that’s what you need.

Closure is a decision. It is sort of like deciding to stop smoking. It isn’t always easy, but it people do it all the time and are better for it.

His position, ”...tough thing with her is they never got closure so of course now and forever he will have to wonder what could have happened if she didn’t live so far away” is bullshit. He made a decision to keep the past in the present, and got caught. He knows it looks bad so he gave you some psycho-babble hoping you would buy it.

@Mariah I am not judging you at all….I really feel for you as this discovery has to be heartbreaking. Actions speak louder than words and if Matt is being open and honest with you about this ex of his than I think you can move forward and continue to strengthen your relationship with him. You made an excellent point in that most every relationship starts with a “perfect” night and if you stay together you discover the warts of this new partner. Matt will always have his memory of this girl but now he has you and I doubt he would be with you if he did not feel the same about you as you do of him. Being married over 20 years I can say with authority you will have many many other issues to deal with in years to come.

If I were you I would plan a perfect night for you and Matt that will take his mind off this other lady.

You’re right. The method of discovery is not the issue. The sad truth is that most men worth having are silly when it comes to women, and I don’t believe a judgement of “insecurity” is justified when it comes to secret correspondence bordering on love letters. Grab him by the ear and threaten him with a grisly and lingering death!

@Mariah clarification there helps explain your situation a lot better. No judging here so don’t get the wrong idea. Moving on… the focus should then be on the content and also the tone of the communication between Matt and his ex. The intent something you’re going to know through your own intuition because you know him better than any of us and it sounds like you may have already taken the best course of action. Removing that insecurity or doubt you are feeling is not something I think can be done all at once. I certainly would be feeling a little of the same. Probably need to just give it some time.

Mariah, I am so sorry that you are going through this. It is a very painful situation.

Unfortunately, while in Matt’s mind this may be completely separate from your relationship, it is not. It is, in its own way, cheating. Because it means his thoughts, fantasies, and romantic inclinations are going somewhere other than into your relationship. That is cheating on you. He has to cut off all contact with this individual. He can simply tell her that he is in a committed relationship, and cannot be communicating with her.

Of course, you are right that if real life had happened, he would have been able to balance his impressions of the perfect night with the reality that she shits, burps and farts, plus has flaws and quirks galore. If he would be willing, a therapist could help him get closure.

Meanwhile, show him that the love the two of you share is precious and worth preserving. Surprise him with sexual favors, romantic trysts, and picnics or other outings that you two love to do together. If your romantic life has taken a back seat to everyday living together, put it back on the front burner (mixed metaphors). Institute date night. If you two have stopped doing something fun that you used to do together, bring that activity back into your lives.

It may take some time to regain the trust. Be patient with each other and loving.

@Mariah You’re absolutely right. It has nothing to do with you and how you found out – which as it turns out anyway was pretty darn innocent.

I think it is now an opportunity for you guys to do some deep talking about your relationship and what he was trying to augment by indulging in this exchange.

Don’t get me wrong, I do think there can be a place for side platonic friendships within a relationship if it is agreed on (full disclosure, I’m in one now) but this sounds like it was much more intimate than that.

You’ve had a few hard knocks lately and I am sorry you’re going through this.

Thanks all.

I have zero desire to talk to this girl, except possibly to cuss her out.

I realize there has probably been something missing for Matt for awhile which would be why he felt the need to get emotional comfort from someone else. I have been feeling fairly depressed lately and leaning on him quite a bit and he probably doesn’t feel like he’s getting the same support out of me, since I’m only barely managing my own life right now, let alone helping with his.

That’s just my guess though because he hasn’t said anything. I wish he would have used his words with me. I’m not a mindreader. He always uses the excuse that he’s “bad at” talking about/bringing up his feelings. I’ve told him over and over again that I want to know if something is wrong but he’s “bad at it.”

I think I will give the issue a rest today because I don’t want to wear him out with these discussions and I think going to our usual Tuesday bar trivia will be better for us than having another shitty conversation, but I’ll try and get more words out of him tomorrow if I can. I told him already that I understand this incident means that I need to improve as a partner in addition to him being more honest with me.

Right now I’m worried I will not get over the fairly bitter feeling I am feeling right now. I want to let it go, but I’m angry. Some of you say to turn up the romance right now to win him back but it’s the last thing I feel like doing at the moment. I am also afraid that I will never be able to get rid of the niggling voice that says that the only reason he’s with me and not her is because of their geographic distance. I’m not a big fan of feeling like he settled for me.

I think you’re right to not do more hashing out tonight and just do your regular thing. And let yourself feel what you feel; artificially ramping up the romance won’t be genuine. Only time will tell if this is a deal-breaker for you; give yourself time (and maybe some therapy) to work through it. But he needs to own up to what has been going on with him too. My Ex never talked about his feelings before he left; all I knew was that he was depressed for a number of months – and a grouch for a number of years. It stunned me but he never was a “good talker.”

Unfortunately I’ve been through similar situations. Both the geographical distance issue with an ex and the whole relationship ending without a closure kinda thing.
In my experience the closure thing didn’t matter. I’m a very emotional person, and I love deeply. Most of my exes, even though they were jerks, I can’t help but feel for in some way. You once loved a person and emotions can hardly be switched off. However what’s important is acceptance and moving on. One may think about a past lover every once in a while but really, I believe its quite a human thing to do. “Closure” isn’t something to stop you from feeling anything about the other person. I’ve gotten over my exes without any closure.
What’s wrong here is the “rekindling” you mentioned. This is what’s wrong. He needs to understand and accept that talking to an ex like that by any standard is plain wrong, whatever the issue in the past was. He moved on. Everybody looks back but he shouldn’t be looking back and reaching for her hand.
As for yourself my dear, please don’t feel any guilt for the invasion of privacy. It happened for a reason, and I think it’s good that you both can address this issue now. The bitter feeling and insecurities I relate with well, and the person that can do anything to help you with them is Matt himself. Talking to him and being open and honest about what you feel, how you feel. I really do hope that talking through those things and issues will help both of you see things clearly. Communication is key and with men it’s difficult because typically they don’t seem comfortable sharing or discussing emotions. But you need to make it clear to him that this is important and that he needs to communicate. Please try and stay calm, it’ll be okay <3 Hugs

Wow…my heart just breaks for you @Mariah. I don’t know if “closure” is exactly the word you’re looking for, though. Perhaps “reality.” Is it possible to get over someone when all you have in your mind is a fantasy, not reality? It’s just not quite the same thing as a spouse dying and one finally coming to terms with it.

I like the way @Espiritus_Corvus put it…eloquent and beautiful at the same time as always!” ” They are in a place in my head where they are forever young and beautiful.”

I have a couple of those too. We all do. I have one particular guy from high school that is there. He was the one guy who never hit on me, either. We were both just quietly in love from Jr. High on. We were good friends. Now I kind of wish I instigated it one time…
We reconnected on facebook, and, indeed, he was in love with me too. It’s just something that was….there. However, from this distance of decades I can easily see it would be a no-go. But…that doesn’t change his place in my head.

I don’t think you were at all wrong in asking him to cut off contact. But you can’t cut off that forever perfect place in his head. I just wouldn’t worry about wondering if he’s thinking of her now and again. He probably will be. That won’t change your place in his heart.
And the fact you were able to actually discuss this with him is an amazing sign of a very healthy relationship.

Think about the secrets in your head…. (((Hugs))) ♥

Our marriage therapist put it to us like this: “You’ve got a love bank, and neither one of you are putting in deposits. Or you think you’re putting in a deposit because you do XYZ, but XYZ isn’t a deposit to the other person. You both have to figure out what puts deposits in your own and the other person’s accounts.”

I wouldn’t suggest you put on stripper music and bang the hell out of him tonight. But find a way to make a deposit in his love account. Rub his back. Tell him the story of how you met. Wash the dishes. Put on perfume. Hell if I know… but do something that you don’t mind doing that he will interpret as love. And ask him to do something that he won’t mind doing that you’ll interpret as love. Build up that account.

@Mariah I’m not with the “heartache for you” crowd on this one. Your reaction is appropriate. You’re irritated and pissed. But more important is your assessment of both the situation and your reaction, and that assessment is clear as a bell. The anger will dissipate, and the possible insult of Matt settling for 2nd prize will evaporate as well, because you will soon appreciate that it doesn’t matter. What matters is that the 2 of you have each other, not that the bum may not deserve you. Would you care any less if you’d selected the love of your life from a cage at the pound? One thing I gather from this episode and your reaction to it is that you are apparently the one with the working compass. Remember this. It’s important! And Mariah I cannot tell you how many times I have witnessed some dummy “settling” and in so doing hit the jackpot. It drives me crazy!

It is a good sign that you did not get into an argument over this incident. That indicates to me that the relationship is pretty strong. You suggested that there may be a problem that you have been leaning on Matt lately. That is quite possible, but it is probably best not to mention it because, even if you are right, he may not be consciously aware of it. We guys are pretty moronic when it comes to relationships.

You are right to insist that he stop communicating with this woman. As to what to do, try focusing on what works in your relationship. You are an educated and articulate person and I assume the same holds for Matt. That opens up innumerable communication paths. I have a good feeling about this.

I would tell him to spend some time with her to be sure what he wants. Otherwise you might be wasting some good years. I’m all for getting it all there on the table. Good luck.

@Mariah He wants closure with this woman? I am not sure what that would involve. Do you wait in the wings while he tries to find out if it would work with this girl? I sympathize with the very difficult situation you have there. One which you inadvertently stumbled upon. Do you think he has been unfaithful emotionally, at least, by continuing this relationship? My heart is with you.

Yeah there isn’t any practical way to get closure. I think he just wants to magically somehow know whether she would have been a good partner for him so he can stop wondering what if.

Yes I feel he emotionally cheated on me. Based on some of the things he said to her. I’m pretty confident if she lived here that he would have dumped me for her a long time ago.

@MilkyWay said, it may be for a reason that you found this out. Is it remotely possible that he didn’t sign off from FaceBook intentionally with the possibility that you might stumble on it?

I do not think so, otherwise our conversation yesterday probably would have gone a lot differently than how it went. He probably just mistakenly thought that he was dating a decent human being who wouldn’t violate his privacy like that.

Oh, @Mariah, yes there was a violation of privacy, but this stuff happens, we’re all fallible and curious. You felt bad, you apologized, you had the courage to admit to it, which, in my book, completely over rides that you did that. You are braver and more honorable than not.

You’re not going to like my advice, I think.

I’ve been on all sides of the dilemma that you now face. I’ve been in your shoes more times than I want to count, and it’s awful. I’ve been in your boyfriend’s shoes wondering “what if…” a few times. And I’ve also found out a couple of times that I was in “her” shoes, too. I was the one who got away. Well, forget about those shoes for now, because I get it – you’d just as soon burn those shoes. Okay.

You’ve got to cut him loose. The sooner, the better.

That old saw, “If you love something, set it free. If it leaves, then it was never yours to begin with. If it comes back, then it was yours all along.” Yeah, corny as hell – but apt, and true enough.

He has to make up his mind, and if you think you already know how he would have decided if things had been easier for him, then… make them that easy. He has to decide, and you have to let him.

You are the one who needs closure on this issue. On her, and maybe on him, too. So create that closure. Close on him, and if he decides – after time; he probably can’t do it convincingly in a day or a week – then you win all around.

I also agree with those who said that ‘closure’ is a meaningless state of affairs in any case, but it’s a useful term to describe “ending a relationship with a certain finality”. So in that sense it works.

The reason I say that you need to cut him loose is: He has to demonstrate, to prove in some meaningful way that you are his first choice, his only choice. Otherwise you’ll always be wondering. It will color – badly – the rest of your relationship to not know. Most of us have fond memories of past relationships and occasional daydreams of how things might have turned out otherwise with another, but for most of us when we’re in healthy relationships that’s where it stays. When that status is maintained actively by one of the partners in a supposedly healthy relationship… then it’s not a healthy relationship.

Mariah, you are acting as wisely as you always do.

As for the angry, bitter feeling, give it time. I am not sure that you were his second choice. If one of them had been willing to relocate for the other, they could have been a couple. Neither was willing. Remember the governor of South Carolina and his torrid affair with an Argentinian woman? Although it caused a divorce and he subsequently became engaged to her, the engagement was broken off and they are not together. Real life intervened with the fairy tale. You might suggest that Matt read about that.

If you two are willing to put in the work, you can weather this crisis and become stronger and better forever. If you would like, you can try reading Getting the Love You Want by Harville Hendrix (Even better? Have your partner read it at the same time.)

Failing that. I think @Cupcake‘s advice of small steps that you can take to show that you love him anf he can take to show that he loves you will improve the climate for communication.

About Communication. Women and men are vastly different in “using their words.” Men’s brains actually take much longer to process conversations that have intense emotional content, like nine hours. So what you can do when you want a response is tell him your side, then ask him to think about and give you his response when he would like to the next day.

@Mariah And he was right, you are the decent person who wouldn’t violate his privacy. You accidentally found this information. Perhaps there’s a reason you needed to know this. This isn’t about you in any sense except as the partner whose trust he violated.

@CWOTUS But if I dumped him it’s not like he would up and move to Venezuela. I think that’s the main reason why he decided to stay with me last night when we talked. He knows he’s not going to her, so he’ll just stick with the next best thing instead. I don’t think dumping him would be productive. I’m not the thing keeping him from her. If I was I think he woulda dumped me.

Thanks everyone. I’m at work trying to keep my shit together.

I get that, @Mariah, but right now he’s on the fence. He has, by his actions, “lost you”. You have to let him know that that is the case. He has lost you.

If he wants to – and if you want it, too – then let him attempt to win you back. That would be very nice, wouldn’t it? But maybe he’s only with you because of a sense of obligation, or “she came out here with me because I brought her here”, or even… simple inertia. How awful a foundation for a permanent relationship is any of those?

Cut him loose, let him decide which way he wants to go – and you decide, too – and maybe start over. But this wasn’t a simple “slip” on his part. It wasn’t a single indiscretion that he’s trying to leave in his past. He was already “gone” in a sense.

Make it so. Be in charge, tell him to get out, and let him do his thing. If he loves you, then he will make attempts to come back, and maybe you’ll let him. Maybe you won’t. Trust is a helluva thing to lose. Don’t let your emotion blind you to the continuing breach of trust that he committed. Maybe you’ll want to forgive him – maybe you already do – but he should have to earn that.

Ugh, I wish I had the self-respect to say that he’s “lost” me with this but I love the guy so damn much that I want to overlook this. I just want to trust him when he says he’s done with her and just continue the way we were before. I don’t think I can mentally handle a breakup at this moment in my life. I was already doing pretty poorly before this shit happened and I will literally have trouble finding the will to live if I have to cope with a breakup right now too on top of it all.

@Mariah I don’t see there is any cause for an immediate break-up here. This is a crisis for you to deal with together and the good news is that you have time to figure it out. People do sometimes have emotional affairs during a long term relationship and while they are not fun, it is not necessarily indicative of you needing to dump him. Take a deep breath and have a hug. I wish you could come over for some chicken soup and brownies.

I wish I could too. Thanks Jan. Thanks everybody.

@Mariah What most men don’t realize, and many women too, is that when they have a secret relationship, whether it be just emotional, or sexual too, they begin to pull away from their primary relationship. Usually, that is the case anyway. It’s human behavior, and then the primary person, that would be you in this case, feels the relationship is strained, or that their partner is more easily angered, or that things seem more in eggshells. It’s how women “know.” Know to be suspicious. It’s chicken an egg. Were you both having some trouble and he started communicating with her and then things became even a little more strained? Or, were things going ok, and then she reached out to him, and then things subtly became more strained with you possibly.

Most people do not understand this dynamic. Most men really think they don’t act differently, but they do. When people want to make their relationships better they need to turn to each other, not someone else.

An ex-roommate of mine’s mother said to me when I was in my 20’s, “I didn’t realize when I got married that I would still be attracted to other men.” She meant that she would still come across men she found interesting, and fun, and if she wasn’t married she would be interested in dating them. The difference with marriage, or a study relationship, is you have a commitment. The people in the relationship have to choose to honor the commitment, and know not honoring it can damage the relationship, even when they want to believe it won’t.

I would say, your both young enough that this might just be a time of learning how things like this affect relationships, and you can both get it behind you. If you break up, you and he will have learned the lesson and your next SO will gain the benefit. Or, you can stay together and gain the benefit. That is, if your SO indeed gets it. Gets the damaged caused by having secrets, especially secret relationships.

I’m just afraid that if you don’t make him “lose” you in some real way, @Mariah, you’re setting yourself up for a harder and worse fall later on when you have even more invested in the relationship. In a real sense – though not as real as going to Venezuela, obviously – he has been making an ongoing “choice”, which you have only just now recognized. So the choice should be pretty stark. Unless you decide that a polyamorous relationship is okay to you – and that’s a choice that you could make if you want to – let him know that you recognize that he made it. And then see what he does, and whether he wants – really wants – to make another choice, for you, and what he will do to affirm that choice – or give him the freedom that he may really want, but perhaps just hasn’t mustered the will to express.

If you give him an easy out this time, then you’re setting a bad precedent. Take it from one who knows, and has made wrong choices in the past.

@Mariah My heart breaks for you over this. I think you are the most level headed, smart, wonderful person that I have ever met. It’s hard to believe you are as young as you are. I would love to reach into my magic bag of advice and make this all better for you, but I don’t have one. I just want to say that all of here on Fluther are rooting for you and a great outcome to this situation. {{{HUGS}}}.

@Mariah, I think you have to try to change how you are viewing this experience. Right now, I understand you feel devastated and quite possibly betrayed. However, this is an opportunity for you. You know when people have strokes or heart attacks, that they may have a warning sign or two before the ‘big event’? Perhaps you could view this in that way. If Matt is having intimate chats with this woman from his past, and feeling like he’s missed out, that tells me he is feeling disconnected from your relationship for some reason. He’s still in your relationship though. He hasn’t left. Right now, he’s filling whatever void it is he is experiencing by chatting to this faraway woman. You could argue he’s chosen her because he doesn’t want to physically cheat and because he doesn’t want to ruin his relationship with you. However, the relationship with you is lacking something.

So you can use this as a warning signal. A sign that you both need to figure out what you want from this relationship, whether it’s worth working on and where to go from here. This means you too. You have decisions to make as well and I don’t think you should rush to make them. Let things settle. Go for walks together. Spend some time. Invest in your relationship again. See a counsellor. Get some help. Do what you need to do. Relationships don’t just happen, they take work. And all relationships have times when one or the other party feels a disconnected to a lesser or greater degree.

I have to go to a meeting now, but I wanted to just add this to the mix. This is a chance for you to fix things. Matt has sent you a clear sign he isn’t happy. Up to you both what happens from here.

@Mariah I’m going to hopefully turn down the volume a bit and explain a few things that guys do and feel. We have fantasies when we feel alienated from our current partners. I don’t actually think your BF was cheating on you by contacting an ex on a different hemisphere of the planet. Honestly I think if you have been depressed he is just a little sad inside and missing you not her. I know this because I have been helping/standing by my wife as she works to overcome trauma she endured in the past. She is not always there for me and it makes me feel a little hollow and distant at times. As a result I find myself withdrawing inside a little and having fantasies of my own. It’s not changing the fact that I chose her and will probably be with her till the end. It’s frustrating at times but deep down I know I’m not going to be happy in another relationship because I’ll be thinking of her. She stuck by me when I went through some rough times of my own. I don’t know the nature of his communications with her but in the end I’m willing to bet that he is with you for good reason. Don’t blame yourself but understand that men have a very deep, deep need for connection with our partners. Much more than sex by a lot. Without it we cannot be complete. Some of us try but the power of denial is strong. Many of us don’t even understand that we need this and wander through life utterly lost and clueless why we feel incomplete. He probably needs you more than you realize. I can’t help you with depression but based on what you have said you have been through it is completely understandable. When men are in relationships with women who are not happy we often suffer with you in a way that women simply will never understand. Please keep that in mind. I’m not in the let him go camp.

I haven’t read all the answers yet, but I’ll say what I haven’t heard anyone say in the many answers I’ve already read.
I know you care for him deeply but there is a chance that he’s a lying cheating dog and not worthy of your devotion.
There’s also a chance that he’s redeemable but if he gets away with this, I’m sorry to say, the odds are not good that something like this won’t happen again in the future.
I hope he beats the odds and you two live a long and happy life together, but proceed with your eyes wide open knowing that he IS capable of cheating.

Well, I came home last night feeling like shit after a day of overthinking everything ad nauseum, but I’m glad that I stuck to my plan of not rehashing anything last night and instead trying to have a nice night. And we did. Last night was really lovely.

We were both sleepy (I know I slept like shit on Monday night and I think he did too) so we thought maybe we’d nap before trivia but instead we just cuddled up and talked. I listened closely while he talked about work, and he listened while I talked about the steps I took yesterday to get a counseling appointment.

Then it was time for trivia and we did awful like we always do, because we’re young and stupid and have a lot to learn. But we had a good time.

I’m starting to see this more like @Earthbound_Misfit suggested, as a scare that we needed to pull us out of complacency. Yesterday was good because it felt pretty normal, but it also felt like we were both trying a little more than we have been.

I will have to talk to Matt to know what exactly happened here. I agree with everyone who said there has to have been something wrong to prompt this. I know for me, despite everything I’ve said about our relationship above, there has been discontent too. Mainly just boredom for me. Complacency. I told myself that happens as time goes on with every relationship, it can’t feel new and exciting forever, but I think with a little extra effort things could have been better.

This has been a crushing blow to my already abysmal self-esteem, but I feel a lot less dire this morning than I did yesterday.

I agree with @CWOTUS. You’re an option he’s chosen because Venezuela is impractical to get to. So now you have to make a “perfect night”? Fuck that. And fuck him. Kick him to the curb and let him pine away over miss thing. Take some ” me” time and relearn to value yourself. And then spend your time with others who value you. You are not his fucking consolation prize, and to hell with anyone who treats you like one.

@Mariah I think at this point, the question for me is, is this a one time thing, or will he be chronic. Some men are chronic cheaters and there is NOTHING to cure them. @Judi alluded to this. Other men, do something like what happened in your relationship, or actually have a sexual affair, and are surprised they did it themselves, and the whole thing becomes a learning experience.

It sounds like it will all smooth out. If he’s willing to talk about it that’s a good sign. Also, I don’t think you said anything about him getting really angry that you “snooped.” That’s a good sign to me too. If there is a second time, a second girl, or he doesn’t chill with this past girl, that’s when you’ll need to really consider leaving, or accept it will happen a third time.

I think just this one particular girl is important to him because he has known her for most of his life. I am not worried about him chronically cheating, except for the possibility of him continuing to pine for this particular girl.

He was not mad I snooped. He was just sorry about what I found.

@Mariah From everything you’ve written about you and Matt prior to this latest issue, it has sounded like a very solid relationship and one worth working on. I feel you two really love each other and this is just indicative of a dry patch that needs working through.

Your instincts are great; take heart.

And please don’t wallow in low self-esteem, you are terrific!

I don’t think the boyfriend is “playing” Mariah, and I seriously doubt that she is his “fallback”. It’s far more likely, that he just plain fkd up. I mean it’s just too damned easy to fall into a hole corresponding through emails.

That he didn’t get very angry is a very good sign. Chronic cheaters tend to be infuriated.

My hunch is that if he was a chronic cheater, he would have turned this into what a “snooping bitch” @Mariah is instead of taking responsibility.

That’s what my ex-husband would have done, anyway. Masterful manipulator.

I want to be very clear, here. @Mariah, I don’t think you did anything wrong. Anything. At. All.

Yeah I was really impressed that he made no effort to dodge responsibility. I think if the roles were reversed even I would try and diffuse the guilt a bit by being angry about the snooping. I liked your earlier advice too, @Cupcake. We have some deposits to make. Our previous deposits got us through this withdrawal.

@Mariah We’re all pulling for you. You’re got a great sense about things… just keep listening.

And keep having cuddle-fests like last night!! You’ll want to do the nasty with him in no time. :)

He’s a fantastic cuddler. We even cuddled the night after we had the initial talk. I offered to sleep on the couch and he told me not to be ridiculous.

It sounds like you both take responsibility for your own actions. That speaks very highly, both of your characters and your relationship.

That, and good cuddling, will take you far.

I don’t know about you guys, but I didn’t have many positive relationship role-models. I had plenty of negative role-models, though. So any time my husband or our arguments remind me of those negative relationships, I would panic. It’s really hard for me to see the long-term and not want to run. My husband has been very patient in that regard. We’ve faced some stuff in our marriage that others may have chosen to part-ways based on. But I’m glad we’ve worked through our stuff. At the end of the day, it’s our relationship and as long as we both give our full OK to be in it, we’re fine.

Man…I’m pulling for you @Mariah. I think it will be ok. It sounds like you are both willing to put the work in that it takes to create a healthy, successful relationship. NO relationship goes along with out a bump and a bang or even a huge wreck sometimes. Too many people bail at the first sign of a bump, and I’m just impressed with both of you.

Hang in there, and give Matt a whack upside the head for me! ;)

@Cupcake My parents have been together almost 30 years so I had that as a good role model growing up. Though I don’t want to be exactly like them. They like to brag that they’ve “never had a fight” but I’ve spent enough time around them that I know what that means. They don’t confront each other. They just get snippy or put up with things they don’t like. Of course, I know I don’t see everything, as their child. But that’s what it seems like to me. I don’t think Matt and I have the option of being like that. Which is fine, it’s not what I want.

@Dutchess_III Thanks. I’ve bailed early on relationships before, but this one is worth fighting for.

” and he left his ipad logged in to facebook” is telling.
Perhaps he felt guilty and left it for you to discover…in order to talk about it ?
Or not..could been a mistake?
I had a situation simular but my boyfriend had women “friends” all around the world that he emailed , facebooked etc. He lied about him “just being friends” as I discovered.
He was intimate with them and simply used romantic rhetoric to gain free lodgings as he travelled , not paying anything…he has hurt a lot of woman and i was one of them..I ended it and no I would not be friends with him after behaviour that is definately ingrained over years of lying. His definition of “friends” is quite different..in reality it meant intimate friends whom he could leave and pick up when ever he could use them.
I hope that you are not having the same problem.
I now am determined to find a committed partner who is mature enough to end head games such as some like my ex.
Very painfull experience and it still haunts me, as I thought that he loved me?
I guess not as much as I thought. I set him free.

It isn’t often that I enjoy being wrong, @Mariah. This would be one of those times. Go ahead and make me wrong again.

I am really sorry about your situation, it is all very similar to me unfortunately. I know I am late to this thread but how are things now, has the ex gone away?

Sorry to hear you’re in a similar situation @LBM, though I’m a little intruiged to hear that too, as the people I’ve talked to about this mostly just look at me like I have two heads. It’s a weird situation.

As for now…..we made up nicely and are doing fine. But we haven’t talked about it any further, and because I have pledged not to snoop again, that means I know nothing. I lost my job very soon after this OP and I’ve been handling one crisis at a time.

I’m starting my new job next week and will give it some time to settle, but I do plan to talk with him again about this because I still have niggling concerns. The only info I have public access to is that they are still Facebook friends. Seems like if he was really dedicated to proving his loyalty to me he could have unfriended her, but I’m trying not to read into it too much.

In a few weeks I plan to just ask him if he ever had a conversation with her about what happened, and how that conversation went.

Pleased you are ok now. I think they are just happy not to have the conversation. My boyfriend is still in touch with his ex, and he doesn’t see what my problem is. I have asked him to cut contact but he says they are just friends and she only contacts him every so many months.
She has married and has moved to America, but she contacts him by email. I too have snooped to find that the contact continues. I ask him to tell me when he has heard from her, and each time he says he will. He never has, I always ask him. It was his birthday last week and I asked if she contacted him, he said no but she did the week previous, and he told her ‘he’ was going away, so that’s why she didn’t contact. Again, I have asked him to tell me next time he hears from her. Personally I don’t agree with the need for contact, as there were no children involved. I know it is a very personal opinion, but I believe an ex is an ex for a reason.
I also believe, as others have stated, once you snoop, it is a slippery slope, one I do slide on. It is awful paranoia, and best not to start, if you can.
I hope your boyfriend has stopped contact, because even if you aren’t checking up on him, I know how much it hurts to know he isn’t telling you something, and to realise there is still contact going on.

Oh, @Mariah, glad you got a new job! I’m glad things are going pretty well for you now, I wish all the positives for that conversation when it happens. :-)