Is it odd to you that men in America still need to sign up for Selective Service?

I’m really out of touch. I thought both men and women were required to sign up.

@YARNLADY If so then I’m out of touch, which is completely possible. So nice to see you here.

Generally speaking SS sign up is for males 18 -25 years of age in the event a draft is necessary. I’m not sure if they have the ability to take the Social database info, and cross reference it into a call-up requirement.

And while I decline to answer question #2, I will instead pose another question: Do you feel that physically, or mentally handicapped males that are able to function in public without assistance, should be required to sign-up, vice women?

Women are not required to sign up.

Info regarding SSS

The government should also know which of its own citizens are eligible to vote. I’d rush to get that automatic sign-up taken care of before worrying about the draft.

But as to whether both men and women should be required to sign up, it should be both or neither. I’d choose neither.

Nope, women don’t (yet). Congresswoman Jackie Speier just proposed requiring women to do so.

@JLeslie Getting a SSN at birth doesn’t give the Selective Service System a means of reaching you eighteen years later. Plus, .although it has eroded over the years, SSNs were not to be used for identification purposes when first enacted.

And, despite the mass collection of data since 2001, most Americans are not comfortable with various branches of government sharing databases to locate people.

Personally, I would be supportive of a Universal Service for everyone, either work on conservation projects, do some service in cities, teach kids stuff, or serve in the military. And I would make exemptions very difficult. Even disabled people would have to participate, if they were independently mobile.

@zenvelo ” Getting a SSN at birth doesn’t give the Selective Service System a means of reaching you eighteen years later.”

No, but your federal tax system does. One way or the other, what @JLeslie is suggesting is possible.

@dappled_leaves The majority of 18 year olds have not filed their own tax returns. But are you in support of a national database to track your information and have it readily accessible by all government departments for compulsory service?

The Selective Service Act predates much of the ability to cross reference for government use. But I don’t want the Department of Defense to have my kids info without them knowing.

Interesting about the branches of government not cross referencing. I always thought it was behind the times that the government doesn’t do it, but as I think about what has been written here, maybe it’s better they don’t. However, Selective Service is about our military, which in my opinion is basically synonymous with our federal government. It’s not like saying you don’t want the IRS to cross reference with a motor vehicle record in a state.

@zenvelo “But are you in support of a national database to track your information and have it readily accessible by all government departments for compulsory service?”

If the service is already compulsory, does it matter? Should you make the system less efficient than it could be, so that people can slip through the cracks? Or should you revisit whether service should be compulsory? I’ve already said I’m not in favour of compulsory service.

What I don’t understand is why people wouldn’t want the government involved. This is a very American thing, not wanting to let the government handle the things that government is actually there to do.

@dappled_leaves It’s because our government is so screwed up. If they could actually be trusted, that would be one thing. But considering they are systematically starting to take rights away, that’s why there’s so much paranoia surrounding them.

But to answer the question, yes, I think it’s weird. I don’t think it should be necessary and I also don’t think women should have to sign up. It’s outdated in general and needs to go.

I find it odd that 100% of young people in the US aren’t required to take basic military training, like the Israelis.

Yes, very odd. Almost like someone needs to know who the males are and when and if they are of age.

Actually, @JLeslie there is some consternation in the Rep. Party because someone has suggested that perhaps the female half of the species also needs to sign up for the draft. GOP blocks women draftees, Should women register for the draft

Isn’t social security to do with the IRS? DoD would be keeping the list of sign ups. I guess it has to do with people not happy with DoD having access to income and tax records. Quite the recruiting tool.

Here its all the same. Government knows when a boy reaches age and his medical status. My boy won’t have to do the mandatory service at 18 because of his ASD. His friends will get letters in the mail telling them when and where to show up and for how long at some point in their 18th year. People here remember that WWII happened.

Just men?

Yes.

Not surprised, just disappointed. There is only one reason for peacetime Selective Service registration and it isn’t good. The last draft was a disaster for America. We damn near self destructed during the Vietnam War—and the government knows this, so why does registration for it still exist?

I do like @zenvelo‘s ideas, though. It would be a good, constructive, instructive break for young people between high school and college without wasting them on some foreign battlefield in wars started for all the wrong reasons and by the generation who doesn’t have to actually fight it.

I’m not much of a conspiracy theorist, overall, but I view the SS as another way for the government to track and control the citizenry.

If men are required to sign up, then I believe women should be, as well. For equality standards.

One note regarding all the discussion of cross comparison of databases:

My son did not go register when he turned 18. He kept putting it off. About three months later, he received a nice little postcard reminding him of his obligation, and that failure to comply might be reported to the FBI.

We figured they probably got his name and birth date from the school, since the school also provides that info to the military for recruitment purposes.

@Espiritus_Corvus Hmm… maybe keep them away from make-work conservation projects, though. Look what happened to the Everglades.

Personally I feel that it should be all or nothing. Ether everyone, men and women, should be require to sign up for selective service or no one should.

Nope. There is one reason why I think women will always be excluded and that is because she cannot be told not to get pregnant if she want’s too. It would be too easy for a woman between the age of 18 to 25 to get knocked up to get out of a draft. Then there is also the ones who already have children and it isn’t always so easy to find someone to care for the child.
The military isn’t going to set up orphanages.

The point is to have able ready bodies available for a draft if needed. As it is, not every male that signs up is going to be and able ready body. There are still physicals they would have to go through and mental evaluation and the fact that some will petition as a conscientious objector. So with women you will have already those same factors and the factor that many between that age will more than likely have children, and some will be single moms, and others pregnant, and the conscientious objectors will only have to get pregnant to get out of being drafted.
I suppose if we ever had a really large war that killed many of our men, then women will have to face the draft, but until that happens, it really isn’t necessary nor will it be necessary because women will all have to take up arms by then along with the elderly and the less physically capable just to try to survive.

That’s great. Kill off both the men AND the women of a generation and see how that contributes to the continuation of your cultures and how that radicalises the culture of a country.

@cazzie If we keep on waging wars like we have been for the last 50 odd years the chances of killing an entire generation are nil.
If we engage a with another group that wages the tactics of terror it does not matter if you are a soldier or female or both. Indiscriminate bombings care not for your sex or age or status but again, chances of losing an entire generation are slim

If we have the big one, then yes we may lose not just the present generation but the past and future ones as well and it will not matter what sex you are or whether you are in the military, in fact your odds may be better if you are.

More Americans have been killed on the streets of America by fellow Americans than in all the wars combined.

So, we want men and women to be equal. We want equality in the military. Women are now allowed to serve in combat roles. But when it comes to the draft we want to send the men, not women, off to war? Beyond the war aspects, men can be actively punished by failing to register for Selective Service. But women aren’t subject to it at all, thus don’t risk punishment or loss of benefits. How is that equality?

(And before anyone takes this the wrong way: I am not against women serving in the military. I am not against women serving in combat. I am not against women serving in command roles. I’m all for it, in fact. However I do believe that men and women should thus be equally held to Selective Service. Like I said: all or nothing. Ether everyone has to register, or no one does. Personally, I’m against military conscription, but if we’re going to have the possibility for it then all should be subject to it.)

Getting a state issued ID or Drivers Licenses should be enough to automatically register you. Want to drive? Welcome to the draft.

Everyone should have to deal with it. Just to make sure the horror of war is felt equally. Man, woman, rich, and poor.

Honestly, short of a war of apocalyptic proportions (in which case we’re all fucked anyway), I think another draft is extremely unlikely. It’s not needed, the U.S. military does an extremely good job of marketing itself these days. Otherwise I think any politician actually voting in favor of one would be committing career suicide.

Slightly off topic: when my husband applied for citizenship his approval was delayed, because he had not signed up for Selective Service. When he came to the US to attend college he used an attorney for his student visa. The attorney had not given him the paperwork to fill out, and how would someone from another country ever know or assume they had to sign up for the draft in America? He had to write a letter explaining what happened and was eventually approved.

Also, as a side note, he had already been given approval to have a work visa here tied to his job. Later a green card tied to me. It’s only when he applied for citizenship there was a flag thrown up.

Women being required to register for the draft:

An excellent chance for feminists to put their money where their mouth is regarding equal pay, equal opportunity and equal responsibility.

Also, to prove once and for all that feminists do not support a double standard.

When men bear the children we’ll talk about double standards. Women have and always will serve in the military and other war support services. The Queen of England herself did. They have been nurses there on the front lines patching up men so they can go and kill some more or get home alive but maimed. Women have always served. I’m not so young to not remember my family’s stories in the USA, New Zealand/Australia and here in Europe. For me it was all a short generation ago.

And what, exactly, does bearing children have to do with the question?

@cazzie Social Security is a form of identity. It seems to me it’s more than just related to taxes. It’s related to credit and money and even the mortgage on your house.

It’s not that women do serve or don’t serve, it’s about whether they can be expected or forced to serve.

@Darth_Algar Two things about women bearing children.

One, we continue the species, which includes producing the future army. In America that’s not such a big deal, because we have a huge population.

Two, you deal with a period every 28 days in middle of the the Congo. You can take drugs to stop your period; should women be forced to take that drug? Of course, having a draft does not mean someone will be drafted to be on the front lines. It can be to help with administrative work, or even physical work, but where you aren’t out sleeping in a field.

@JLeslie

Using that logic then why allow women to serve in the military at all?

For anyone defending that females shouldn’t be drafted should visit Israel and listen to the women who are (also) required to do their civic term in the military.

In Australia and New Zealand and England, during WW2, women were forced to serve. It isn’t new. It isn’t special treatment. Women, single, able bodied, of age, were expected to fill jobs and duties assigned by the government. Look it up. Now, if the US did the same, I’m not completely sure, if it was completely voluntary, but in other Allied countries, it was not voluntary.

I have a friend here in Norway who served in Israel. Her mother was/is a high ranking army officer. Their entire country is built on offensive military manoevers, so that is sort of an unfair comparison.

I’m not saying women shouldn’t be drafted, I’m saying it’s a myth that we aren’t.

@JLeslie Uh. What? Women can have their periods and still hold a job. Any job. It’s ridiculous to suggest that they should have to stop their periods to serve in the military.

And saying that they shouldn’t serve because they have the potential to be pregnant is as ridiculous as saying they shouldn’t drink because they have the potential to be pregnant.

@dappled_leaves If you want to be dripping blood while wading through a swamp with little access to tampons go ahead. I don’t want to be forced to do that. Women are different than men physically not only in strength (although if a woman can pass the physical tests like a man I’m all for letting them do the same work as men) but also we bleed, we have more medical shit to deal with even if we are healthy. My period doesn’t stop me. I work, swim, Zumba, no one knows I have my period, and it is of little inconvenience. But, in a situation where I might run out of tampons, sanitary napkins, and even TP? No thank you. Shoot myself up with drugs that stop my period for several months? No thank you. Women who want to do it, have at it. Most jobs in the military aren’t combat, and so then there is no problem.

@Darth_Algar I’m only talking about not drafting them into combat situations. If they want to volunteer I’m all for it. However, I do agree fair is fair, if you want equality then you have to be ok with being drafted just like men. The draft isn’t only about combat, the draft is about serving. There are a ton of jobs women and men can do to serve in the military and serve the country.

Good grief, @JLeslie, I’ve spent more months hiking through backcountry forests dripping blood than you’ll ever know. Somehow, I managed to arrange toilet paper and tampons ahead of time. There’s truly no need for a pharmacy under every tree. Anyway, if the military can manage a steady supply of food and ammunition, I think it can manage a few lightweight toiletries. What an unbelievable load of bollocks.

@dappled_leaves Ok.

@cazzie “I’m not saying women shouldn’t be drafted, I’m saying it’s a myth that we aren’t.”

Women aren’t. Not in the United States. They don’t register for Selective Service, whereas men are legally required to. That is what this topic is about, not whether, or in what countries, women are pressed into military service.

Women do not have to register for Selective Service and they’ve never received a draft notice telling them to report to the local recruitment center at such-and-such date or else. Whereas men who fail to register for Selective Service may be punished by loss of federal benefits, disqualification for student loans, loss of eligibility for federal employment and, potentially, prison time and a fine of up to a quarter million dollars (though, in reality such prosecutions of imprisonment and fines have been rare, and haven’t been enacted in 30 years). Do you honestly think that is a fair, equitable system?

@JLeslie ” I’m only talking about not drafting them into combat situations. If they want to volunteer I’m all for it. However, I do agree fair is fair, if you want equality then you have to be ok with being drafted just like men. The draft isn’t only about combat, the draft is about serving. There are a ton of jobs women and men can do to serve in the military and serve the country.”

Except that if you’re in the military then you’re in the military. No matter what your nominal role in the military is you may be pressed into combat at any time if command feels it necessary.

The Q was about whether the US government really still needs to be making young men sign up with the Selective Service considering the government pretty much already knows where we are and how old we are. I don’t mind that the Q wandered, I just think some people might have understood my intentions.
I was saying isn’t it basically automatic men can be drafted? Back in the day we didn’t have computer systems able to coordinate all the data.

Then, I also asked about women.

@Darth_Algar I agree. But, right now if women sign up, they aren’t sent to fight on the front lines as far as I know unless they ask for it. A man, he might enlist, and be assigned to combat, and tough shit, he’s going.

@JLeslie

Women can serve combat roles in the military (at least in the army, the marines may be different). That means that even if she’s the mess hall cook if her commander tells her to grab a rifle, get out there and start shooting that means, tough shit, she grabs a rifle, gets out there and starts shooting.

@Darth_Algar Then what’s all the hooplah in the news about women now serving in combat? It doesn’t surprise me that women would be trained to fire again, and as you say mess hall cooks, doctors, and keep drivers might be ordered to pick up a gun and shoot. I’m confused what the fairly recent talk is about women qualifying for some military stuff.

Also, if a woman is preggers, then she is risking her fetus, and I would guess some people, especially the pro-lifers, might not be happy the baby doesn’t have a choice to not be in the line of fire.

@JLeslie

1: I dunno. Ask the folks who have a problem with women serving in combat.

2: Umm, what? You think they’re going to send someone pregnant out in to combat? No more so than they would someone who has a broken leg. There’s a reason why “able-bodied” is such a big deal when it comes to military and war.

@Darth_Algar What if the pregnant chick is feeling good? Isn’t it up to her?

@JLeslie: but a pregnant woman should not lift very heavy stuff. Probably not the one you want next to you if problems arise.

@JLeslie

You cannot be serious with that question.

Why isn’t it up to the woman? If she can do it, and wants to take the risk, why isn’t it up to her?

@JLeslie: If the pregnant military female did something like lift something heavy and then suffered a miscarriage, the pain and bleeding would require immediate medical attention, which wouldn’t be too beneficial in a combat situation.

@jca I know. I don’t know how likely it is to miscarry from lifting? I remember an episode on some cop show where a pregnant cop had an argument with her SO or boss, not sure, that she should not be in situations where she can get shot. She wanted to keep working like she always had, which included crimes currently happening, and going into dangerous situations.

I know in local cop departments, they take the pregnant cop off “the road” and put her at a desk job.

@jca I would guess most female cops want that. They don’t want to risk their pregnancy.

@JLeslie; Yes definitely, but I’m guessing the top brass also realizes the pregnant cop is not going to be as agile and as strong of a partner as one who is not.

I agree. I’m not seriously trying to fight for pregnant women to be in combat or walking the beat. All I’m saying is women and men are different physically. People jumped all over me up above, and I was giving an example. Can the military tell women not to get pregnant if they are serving in combat? If we start drafting women into combat can they just get pregnant and they are removed from the front line?

@JLeslie “If we start drafting women into combat can they just get pregnant and they are removed from the front line?”

Sure. Just like a man can deliberately physically injure himself to accomplish the same end. You’ve yet to put up much of an argument for woman being exempt from Selective Service, if that’s what you’re trying to do.

I’m not arguing for them to be exempt. I’m just interested in what other people’s opinions are on the topic.

Yeah, I got that from your initial post, but your last several have read like women should be exempt because they can get pregnant.

I’m just saying women are different. I do think dealing with a period makes us different too. I guess if women can live in the wilderness on Game of Thrones, they can serve in combat in the American Army. I hope the army supplies ramping for free. I’m still pissed I can’t buy them with my HSA card. They are a medical device.

Yes, women are different. Yes, women must deal with periods. And?

^ Only women have to “deal” with women’s periods…

TIL.