Why are we worried about bathrooms? Why not worry about churches?
Far from the first time.
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I’d say that ministers and pastors are pretty dangerous to kids.
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34 Answers
I wouldn’t be surprised if preachers, priests, rabbis, clerics and “spiritual leaders” have abused more women and children in the United States alone than all the trans people from the beginning of time.
Bathrooms are more important than churches because bathrooms have a practical use.
What? Separate bathrooms for separate religions? I guess I should look into the link
Generalize much @elband?
It happens in all walks of life.
@chyna – right-wing people generalize about how men will walk into women’s bathrooms in Target stores and molest them.
If they can generalize all sorts of bullshit, why can’t I?
Church bathrooms are trending against secular.
I won’t worry about churches. There are already laws in place to deal with these pedophiles and I know of nobody who sends their child to church under duress, or the kind of distress one can be in if refused the use of a bathroom when they really need one.
To the first part of your question, I wasn’t too excited about this whole bathroom thing at first. I know what I would do if refused a restroom in a time of distress. The person blocking my way could get hurt and, after I’m done with them and my business, they would probably end up cleaning my shit off their floor. But that’s just me. I understand that most people are too afraid of going to jail for kicking an asshole’s ass, and I can respect that.
So, after thinking about it for awhile and putting myself in the shoes of an average person who , like all of us, simply wants to pursue happiness the best they can with the cards they’re dealt, is refused the use of a bathroom because they have made a personal choice which is nobody else’s business, it does become important. Because it has to do with what I believe is a right. People disagree with me, but fuck ‘em. It’s the right to the pursuit of happiness if their pursuit is at no cost to anyone else. Anytime they make a law preventing this, they make a sadder world and I object to that.
Denying the use of a bathroom to someone is just plain fucking mean. Making a law supporting this is tyrannical and that is not what government is for. Our various governments needs to learn this lesson because it is a very slippery slope and a dangerous trend for all peoples who consider themselves citizens of a free, democratic society.
As Jerry Ruben suggested:
“Go into a bank, business or office and demand to use the toilet. You’ll be told, “No public bathroom here.” Stand on one leg and whine loudly, “I gotta doo-doo.”
Tell them if they continue to refuse , you’ll shit on the floor.
Shit on the floor!”
They are separate concerns. A person does not need to choose one over another.
I entered a restroom/washhouse pavillion at a State Park— and at the restroom / shower room door was a sign prohibiting me from entering the much-needed restroom unless I was an overnight guest at their tent and trailer park.
Hmmmm…. not allowed in the restroom. I guess you know where I had to do my business.
Anyhow— in regard to churches—- it is unfortunate that many churches, not just Roman Cathollics, believe that are exempt from the government-mandated and common-sense rules regarding background checks and sex offender lists. Even supposedly Biblical, evangelical churches attract dangerous and unstable people who are probably drawn because of their dysfunction (kinda how the field of psychology attracts some flakes and weirdos).
I remember recently working at a school age Afterschool program where the policy was that “all church staff except ministers had to undergo a background check. I made sure that policy changed really fast in compliance with State laws. If your minister is unwilling to have a mandatory background check then your church needs to fire him— even if he’s not a predator he is arrogant, a scoff-law, and its illegal for him to work with children.
There is ALWAYS a board, committee , church session, or some type of church government that can enforce this. And no genuine “servant” and steward of a congregation would abject to it unless they have something to hide.
The point is, a person is just as likely to be molested in a single-gender bathroom as in a multi-gender one.
We do worry about churches. Anywhere men are around children. Clergy, teachers, coaches, male babysitters, and on and on.
0 = Number of transgender people arrested for sexual assault or harassment in public restrooms
3 = Number of Republican Senators and Congressman arrested for sex in public bathrooms
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^^Again, the law is not only about transgendered people being thought to be dangerous, for many people the fear is MEN in women’s bathrooms. If trans people are allowed in then bad MEN can dress up as women and no one will know to beware. MEN in my statement are straight, nontrans men. I’m against any laws regarding this, and I have zero problem sharing a bathroom with a woman who has transitioned. I also have no problem sharing a bathroom with a man who has a young daughter who can’t use the bathroom alone.
Why are people who are so offended by this law unable to address the real possibility of a woman being attacked in a bathroom. Maybe if we stop calling people transphobic and hateful, and listen to what they say regarding men, then we can address that specific fear? Stating trans people never hurt anyone in bathrooms does zero to convince someone who worries about men in bathrooms. I know some people are trans-phobic, but not everyone who supports the law.
Why are people who are so offended by this law unable to address the real possibility of a woman being attacked in a bathroom.
That can happen now.
A witch hunt against trans people isn’t going to prevent it.
@Call_Me_Jay Exactly. It can happen now. Which is why I am against these ridiculous laws. But, some people on the bandwagon are just people being filed up with fear and not thinking it through. If we want to reach them, we need to listen to their specific fears so they also will rise up against the hateful people.
Millions of people didn’t spontaneously wake up with a fear of men in the women’s room.
It’s an organized effort to stir up the excitable rubes for November.
The people leading the effort need to be called out on it. Unfortunately, the degenerates from the so-called “Family” and “Christian” and “Values” groups get on TV and they are treated as respectable people with human decency.
I can understand FOX doing it – that is what they are paid to do. But the other media should not air stories without mentioning that trans people aren’t causing any problems and they already are in our bathrooms.
They should be pointing out that conservatives are passing laws that will require EVERYONE to produce a birth certificate to use the bathroom. That conservatives are eagerly working towards the day when they can overtly look down children’s pants to “protect” them.
@Call_Me_Jay Don’t you see, now you are sounding hysterical like them. Next thing you know everyone will be carded at the bathroom door. Bullshit. Say stuff like that to the people supporting the law out if ignorance and they will tune you out. You will not be heard. Show people some respect and they might listen.
Of course the leaders are using fear to rile up the troops! It’s a great way to get loyalty and support. Fear works.
I can see how some parents might be uncomfortable about the bathroom issue with all the bullshit surrounding gender issues and whatnot. Even though most of us know that LGBTQ doesn’t equal pedophile, nobody wants to take any chances with their children with something like this. I resist what I’m about to say because it feels like it’s surrendering to this age old predjudice and ignorance, but for the sake of compromise, here goes:
How about a third bathroom? In the South, most establishments, including service stations, had three bathrooms prior to 1964. But instead of segregating by skin color, the bathrooms are segregated by age. Make a third bathroom for prepubescent children and their parents/guardians only and keep children out of the two Adult rooms. When I was a kid, our YMCA had sections that we couldn’t go into such as the men’s shower section and the steam room unless we were escorted by our dads. I never asked why and neither did any other kid I knew and no adult ever volunteered any information. It was just the way things were.
My heart isn’t really in this suggestion because of the above stated reason, but it might calm some people down enough so everybody can just use a restroom when they need to without upsetting a whole bunch of other people. And maybe after awhile, when people learn LGBTQ doesn’t mean dangerous pervert, the third bathroom will have the same fate as the “Coloreds Only” rooms of the past— they will become an extra utility closet or employee restroom, and the sooner, the better.
Just a thought.
Next thing you know everyone will be carded at the bathroom door. Bullshit.
No, it’s the law. North Carolina now requires proof of gender from a birth certificate.
North Carolina HB2
“Public agencies shall require every multiple occupancy bathroom or changing facility to be designated for and only used by persons based on their biological sex (the physical condition of being male or female, which is stated on a person’s birth certificate.).”
@Call_Me_Jay That’s saying that you have to go to the bathroom that agrees with your gender assignment at birth. It’s a way of clarifying what the state, regarding the law, wants the individual to consider when they choose a bathroom. Your gender at birth according to your birth certificate. I’m not agreeing with the NC law, I’m just saying that had to write the law in a way that there would be little ambiguity, and that’s how they did it. It’s stupid, but I understand the logic behind writing it that way for what they wanted to achieve.
I would suggest that you hate the extreme part of the religious right so much you assume they are full of hate and scorn. That is not always the case.
@Espiritus_Corvus I realize you aren’t really behind your suggestion. I don’t like the idea of requiring business to have a third bathroom. It’s an expense, difficult for small retail, and children are not in more danger, because usually young children are accompanied by an adult. Plus, if we had bathrooms by age, adults will still be allowed in, as you mentioned. How do you know if the adult is a parent or some child molester? No way to know. Hell, a parent could be a child molester.
^^I don’t want to accommodate them. It sounds like you think I’m on their side. I’m against the law. I think it’s just fine companies are taking a stand. I think it’s good.
People have been sharing public bathrooms with transgendered people for years without knowing it, and things have gone pretty smoothly so far. And who’s going to be functioning as bathroom police? Are we all going to be required to carry copies of our birth certificates with us so our genitals can be checked against our birth gender? What genitals we have and signs that we may have had surgery? The whole thing is nonsense. Let people be who they are and leave them alone. There’s really no valid reason for excluding transgendered people from the bathroom that conforms to their gender identity
My mother was molested by a preacher in church when she was young. It messed her up for life and she stopped going to church.
The whole bathroom thing is fearmongering and I hate it.
^^Fear mongering yes. I completely agree. When we get rid of the stupid law those people will just continue to accuse liberals, atheists, and the federal government for trying to get rid of Christianity. Everyone just fights with hate. I don’t mean you, I think you are one of our most open minded jellies defending the religious and the not religious. I’m just sick of each side having such venom for the other. It just helps the crazy extreme people have influence.
Many Churches serve a great purpose in the community. My church provides our community and the needy with groceries, clothes and other necessities. However many Churches these days are businesses and are all about the money. There are good Churches and Bad ones. People should not think all Churches and Christians are the some or have the same mind set when it comes to certain issues. As for the bathroom issue, I recently just heard about it. Personally I don’t have an issue with it. But i understand why many might be against it.
This isn’t about “transgender” issues. If it were, a transgender or unisex restroom would suffice. Rather, the demand is about men and boys who think they have the right to use the women’s restroom.
The problem is, many women might not feel the same way about people of the male gender in their restroom. Its the women’s rights to privacy in private matters that is being violated. This SHOULD be a women’s issue. It really has nothing at all to do with the religious right, Christianity, or right-wing politics.
@Yellowdog and the sad thing is, before NC got their panties in a knot there was no problem and there still is no problem. And if it becomes a problem it is one the religious right brought upon us.
There was not a great demand from men and boys to use the womens restroom. Can you honestly say that you heard a single incident within the twelve months prior to the NC hate law where something even remotely along the lines of what you are suggesting either occurred or was attempted?
In a way you are correct, it is not a transgender issue but one of fear, prejudice and ignorance and a political system that uses such to further their own goals.
And you are also mistaken, it has everything to do with the religious right. They were the ones who have caused all the ongoing troubles and it has everything to do with right wing politics because it is their signature style; riling up the base with fearmongering and paranoia in order to get them out to vote on some other issue.
@Yellowdog I argued above that I can see the point that people are afraid that men in women’s bathrooms can pose a danger to women. However, I’m also expressly against these new transgender discrimination laws, and I absolutely blame the religious right and the politicians who cater to the religious right. This is their MO.
That doesn’t mean I think all Christians agree about the law, or that all Christians are the same, and all hate transgender people. It just means that the people leading the way on this bathroom issue (and previously it was gay marriage, and before that gays in the military, and before that stopping our government up while they impeached Pres. Clinton, and before that segregating blacks from whites) that the people leading the issue are the Christian Right. Go back, it’s all the same verbiage with each group they pick on. They just insert their choice of who to judge and discriminate against over and over again, and they actually enact laws. It’s not just some personal prejudice or fear, it affects the freedom of others, and affects whether they are treated as equals in their own country.
@JLeslie you are correct about it not being all Christians as the link provided by @Pied_Pfeffer above shows. It is just a very vocal minority I would guess but when they get stirred up they are capable of despicable things like nailing people to crosses and the like
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