Americans: Would you be in favor of being forced to give up your health care insurance in favor of a national health insurance?

In a second. If everyone is in the same boat people would ideally band together to fix issues instead of got mine, fuck you.

absolutely

In a heartbeat. The current non-system is a costly patchwork of services and a boon to shareholder-owned insurance companies.

Yes!!!

My current insurance is Google and the dollar store first aid aisle, so yes please.

In a heartbeat.

In a hot minute.

If the US decided to roll out a national healthcare program, my hope is that they would meet with the existing countries that already have to find out what is working well the pitfalls they experienced, and then put together a strategic plan that will work in this country. It needs to be tested in order to work out the kinks. Then it needs to be marketed.

If the US was willing to do this, yes, it would get my full support.

Yes, I have the “expensive” package through work, and still have spent over $4,500 in deductibles and “my share” this year.

No.

Sure, because then health care cost will have to be regulated, to include medications. No more scalping prices. Heart medications cost the same anywhere you go. Doctor visits will also cost the same anywhere you go. I remember growing up in NYC when they had city health clinics that took care of everyone equally. I hated the long days, but at least there were a lot of preventable care that was accessible for those who could not afford it and things could be spotted before they became a more expensive or deadly problem.

The thing is that there would be no need to force anyone away from the hopeless nightmare of our private insurance system. The stampede away from parasitic insurance companies would be breathtaking.

Of course not. I’m self-insured and like it that way.

Yes.

Yes.

No.

A national health insurance that I assume would be no cost? No deductible? Decent coverage for optical and dental, too? Yes, thank you.

Yes, definitely.

Seriously.

Is this a joke?

If Obamacare was as economically efficient and effective as proposed I would not be required to have health insurance under pain of the IRS keeping my tax return if I fail to comply.

Not that long ago I recall a time when I could decide for myself, being young a bulletproof I could spend health insurance money on more important things like petrol and beer.

Do any other Jellies remember a time when you could make your own choices?

Yes.

Although, no matter what system we have I want someone to crackdown on costs. Without that the same problems continue.

I’d really like to know how well run our military system is. How financially well run. The salaries of the doctors (I’m in favor of fairly high salaries for doctors, although realize military doctors get their medical education for free) and the fees and prices for diagnostic equipment and supplies, etc. Everyone always talks about Medicare. I always say I grew up in socialized medicine in America, because I grew up in military care. When I got out into private sector care I was shocked. I was spoiled, because my care was at Bethesda Naval, one of the larger better equipped military facilities, so that might have some influence on my shock.

In military care they also control what medications are approved, and try to get patients on the cheapest brands, that sort of thing doesn’t disappear with socialized medicine. However, what is noticeably different to me is in military care my primary more readily helped and transferred me to specialists. My cardiologist in the private sector was exNavy and she said in the service you can be more focused on the patient.

One thing to consider is in places like Canada the doctors are still paid fee for service just like Most of the American private sector. Canadian doctors are just paid by the government for their service. I don’t want that.

I think I would be healthier in more ways than one if I could go to the doctor for “free.” I have the money to pay, I just resent paying for nothing. No cure. No help. No real interest. Over-focused on making money, like making me come back for test results (luckily that has been somewhat taken care of with the new laws). I do have a few doctors who have been great. Just too many that haven’t been. Enough bad ones in a row and I stop going for a long while. Stop trying. I live sick, or have lived with illness linger than necessary too often in the past out of frustration.

I do not have health insurance of any kind.

^ How DARE you not do your financial part to help Obamacare smack that square peg in it’s round hole.

No because my two private health insurance companies have worked very well for me. I had a very hard to treat heart condition for 12 years. During that time I had many trips to the ED, several hospital stays, many medical procedures and 2 very expensive high tech surgical procedures. The last procedure was so expensive that it is doubtful that a government run health care system would OK it. The total coast over the years added up to well over $500K. My heart is functioning normal ever since the last surgical procedure (nearly 3 years ago). If you can afford private health care then that is definitely the way to go. I feel in charge of my health as I have more power to make the decisions and more options are likely open to me.

I’m a very happy camper and feeling terrific. Life is sweet.

The ACA is not national healthcare, it’s a gift to insurance companies, and I’ve said that from the start.

We need better than what we got. The ACA was an attempt to appeal to the Republicans, and while it’s an improvement, it’s not enough.

@gondwanalon Life is sweet, but probably the $500k should only cost $200k. That would mean $300k could be redistributed as lower premiums for your group.

No. Happy with the status quo.

Yes, I remember when I had a choice @SecondHandStoke. And the instant I had the opportunity to get insurance I jumped on it. I was young and bullet proof too. But I was also smart.

What is worse are the times when I didn’t have a choice because I flat out couldn’t afford it. Fortunately, although I was older (30–45) I was still, apparently, bullet proof. Or damn lucky.

@Seek And that appeal to the republicans, that compromise, sure bit a lot of Republican constituents in the ass, didn’t it. The only people I hear bitching about the Health Care Reform are republicans. They blame Obama when, in fact, it’s their own governors who screwed them over. For no reason other than their own petulance.

Yes I remember when I had a choice. Answer is still no.

Depends somewhat on what the national health care plan is, but if done well, then yes.

@si3tech do you have Obamacare? Shhhh everybody!

No I do not. I worked for mine and pay dearly for it. I am thankful I have it and thankful I can pay for it. Answer still no.

I had a strong feeling you’d say that. If you have health insurance of any kind, you ”have”“Obamacare.” The ACA is not some sort of insurance provider. It’s a set of new LAWS, passed by Congress, that govern what health insurance providers can, and (most importantly) can not do.
For example, your insurance provider can’t deny you coverage because of a pre-existing condition. If you have kids, you can carry them under your insurance until they’re 26 (or 27, I forget.) Prior to Obamacare they could deny your kid coverage after they turned 18.
I promise you, your insurance provider has to comply with these laws.
You have Obamacare.

@Dutchess_III You are right! ACA act is a set of laws which has severely compromised “my own choices”. Very sad to say.

I’ve had insurance (finally) since 2007, though my husband’s employer. They haven’t compromised my choices. How have they compromised your choices?

I had insurance but list it due to Obamacare. I am now self-insured and like it that way better. You know, not pay for something you never used.

How did you lose it because of the ACA, and how are you self-insured?

@Dutchess_III – She misses the right to pay out the nose for a high deductible plan that does her absolutely no good on a daily basis. She’s lucky enough to not need monthly medication that costs thousands of dollars.

@GSLeader simply pays out of pocket. That’s what self-insured means. It also means that, gods forbid, she or her children end up in an accident, we the taxpayers will be paying for her treatment because I bet you dollars to doughnuts she doesn’t have $2million set aside for emergency surgeries and follow-up care.

Oh. That’s what “self insured” means?

Yeah, my hospital bill was, like, a quarter of a million dollars. I don’t know what I would have done if I had been “self insured.” Oh. Wait. I absolutely know what I would have done. Filed bankruptcy and thrown it back on the rest of the US population.

@Seek Nice baseless assumption. I feel like a girl today, wait, no, a boy. Am I a he or she? Depends on my mood, I guess, and not my genitelia. As far as the other thing, I never asked the taxpayer to pay for a thing for me, and never will. The money I’m saving by not paying for health insurance will more than make up for any future medical bills I may have. I haven’t seen a doctor in like 20 years, and font plan to for 20+ more, so since I got cancelled I decided to not continue paying for something I never used.

^^And just think, if all that money you paid had gone to the government for healthcare rather than a private insurer it would count. You would have paid in and eventually received services for it. Instead you paid a private insurer, you are not in that network anymore, and so your money spent really was for nothing. People don’t get away with never needing medical care. It’s very rare. I hope you are one of the few who are lucky in life regarding health.

Could you really field a $300,000 bill @GSLeader? Hell, I can’t. If I could I’d get a new house. I certainly didn’t “plan” to get sick with pneumonia in 2012, and almost die.

I didn’t “plan” to wind up with an ectopic pregnancy in 1994 and almost die.

My finances are not the business of anybody on Flutter, nor the government as far as that goes. Sure, while the money could have went to the government instead of s private company, but I’d rather it have went to a private citizen then to obama to use for another vacation. Thanks for your concern, but I’ve no need for more government intrusion into my private life.

@GSLeader The money doesn’t go to the government in America today, that’s what this Q is about: what if we switched to that system? Obama didn’t put us on a socialized system, that’s the problem in my opinion. He did some sort of hybrid thing that seems to have helped people who make $30—$40k. A few nice things like your kid can stay on through age 26 (for the life of me I don’t see why it wasn’t standard through age 24 at least already, I would think that is positive cash flow for the insurance companies).

I just went through researching obamacare options and for me it was a negative experience to say the least.

I don’t know how much money you have, but if I had $10m I wouldn’t pay for insurance either. However, I also wouldn’t mind paying into a government system if it controlled costs and wasn’t a crazy amount of money. Right now it’s crazy! The private sector has sucked at controlling costs. Competition is a joke, it’s mostly collusion. Something must be done.

My husband and I will pay about $12k this year in medical costs if I have a normal year. No emergencies. No hospitalizations, no reasons for an extra visit to a doctor. If I need an antibiotic that number will go up. It will be the same next year. To me that’s a fortune. $9k of that is just premiums. In 10 years I would easily have enough for an emergency. Believe me I see your logic. The problem is in America the emergency can easily cost $300k. It shouldn’t.

The government shouldn’t be in the healthcare business in any shape, form, or matter. The goal should be less government, not more. The less government means the less we pay in taxes, leaving the citizens with more to be able to afford more if what they need without having to depend on strangers in the government to “take care if them.” Lower taxes, keep more for yourself. It so beautiful in its simplicity.

@GSLeader Can you show me a country where that works? No government, high competition, and everyone can afford their own healthcare? I love that in theory, believe me, but I just don’t think it plays out that way.

It would if taxes were capped at 10% or lower, and government didn’t inside into industry that isn’t their business, like healthcare or retirement saving. Social Security also should be phased out so the private citizens could more easily find their own retirement on their own terms.

Yes, we need a smaller government. Small enough to check genitals at the bathroom door, to check uteruses to make sure they’re full, but not at all big enough to make sure people can go to the doctor when they need to.

Maybe those boys who think they are girls should go to the doctor and get a hysterectomy, paid for by the government, of course. I mean, there is no difference between boys and girls. If you think you are a girl, then you are. Right?

@GSLeader

The “Commerce Clause” (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) Of the US Constitution does not grant congress the power to force individuals into contracts or “acts of commerce.”

Such as with a health insurance company.

Yet here we are.

Gives one chills doesn’t it?

Insurance-wise, I’ve got it pretty good. My state job is one of the few vestiges of the old employment model where even modestly paid workers are given pretty good benefits. Also, I’m lucky not to have serious health issues.

Chances are, I wouldn’t have a whole lot to gain on a personal level if we were to move to national single payer healthcare. If I my opinions on this matter were based on simple self-interest, then I wouldn’t much care one way or the other. But “Would I be better off?” is not the way to look at this. All of society is dragged down by the absurd inefficiencies of our profit-driven healthcare system. Just because I might be on slightly higher ground than many doesn’t mean that I can stop caring about it.

Oh yes, let’s get rid of SS because Americans are so good at saving their money, and most people have 3 or more children to make sure the family can support their older relatives. ~

Do you know how many people I know who make $80k a year who barely save anything. That’s a pretty nice salary for most people. It’s not that they think Social Security will be there for them, it’s that they don’t think at all about how much they really need when they retire.

I have a relative now who took a very low salary from his business for all the years he owned it. He didn’t understand the huge negative impact that would have on him now when he retired. Sure, he paid way less taxes all those years he worked, but he would have been better off paying more and having more social security, because he is not a saver.

Just to be clear I worded my question carefully. I am not talking about expanding Medicare as an option for everybody. I am talking about expanding Medicare (or equivalent) and then forcing people to join it.

Just to be clear, the government had no right to force Americans to give up their healthcare plan and force to accept what the government demands of them.

@Rarebear Don’t worry, the free market will allow people to buy Special-Snowflake insurance with all their extra money they have lying around to supplement their national healthcare. Private supplements exist in Canada and the UK and probably all the rest of them, too.

And, there’s always the cash-only naturopaths and homeopaths for the Really Special Snowflakes.

GSLeader The problem with that low tax minimum government model is that it is the exact definition of such dreamy pleasure lands as Somalia & Mississippi. Taxes are indeed “the price we pay for a civilized society”. You can pretend all you want that a society can be maintained without public services, but the truth is that Alabama & Mississippi would be Somalia & Eritrea without the revenues generated in high tax places such as New York city and the state of California.

“Because Americans are so good at saving their money.”

Are you sure you don’t mean hoarding it?

Yes, I’ve actually heard and read people considering savings as such.

How dare one earn invest or earn interest on their hard earned cash. Jesus, I’m already forced to function as a lender to the state as they withhold my tax return.

The mind boggles.

@Rarebear I briefly had medicare, until the state dropped that option for adults. I didn’t have to pay for it. In order to “sign up” all I had to do was sign my name. That’s no thang. And it was the best insurance I ever had.

@GSLeader the government isn’t IN the health care “business,” any more than they’re “in” any other kind of business.
The government is in the business of creating laws that govern how all business are allowed to conduct business.

@SecondHandStoke The government only requires you pay in your income taxes to a certain percentage during the year. You can hoard it (a little) and pay a bunch on April 15th instead. I try to owe a little in April to have use of my money.

@GSLeader No one was forced to give up their plans. Some of the plans closed up shop, because I guess it wasn’t going to be profitable enough for them. See, that’s the thing, the insurers are business people not medical people.

It wasn’t going to be profitable because the laws changed to benefit the people. For example, they would be forced to accept people with pre-exisiting conditions and all kinds of other things that was good for the people, but sucked for the insurance company’s bottom line. .

But remember that despite any pretense to the contrary, the actual function of the ACA is to assure the functional profitability of the insurance companies. THIS is why these companies themselves designed the ACA and have effectively (temporarily) avoided universal single payer healthcare. Any and all other considerations, including the people effected are secondary to this fundamental purpose. The scheme is unbelievably convoluted and horribly wasteful and inefficient, but those too are secondary considerations to the necessity that insurance companies rake in money.

@stanleybmanly And, that’s why it kinda sucks, just what you said, the industry still has their hand in it and manipulating it. Obamacare did not accomplish close to what I would hope would happen. Maybe it moved us one step closer? I don’t know. No one is really tackling waste and pricing that is gouging. I don’t mean all pricing in healthcare is set at gouging prices, I’m just saying enough are that it needs to be addressed.

I also think health insurance saw an opportunity to raise premiums and blame it on Obama, even if it had nothing to do with him. At least half the country will believe it is Obama’s fault. Is be really curious to see the profit of insurance companies in the last few years. If their profit went up and up then they are all full of shit, any American who pays their monthly premium and bitches about Obamacare needs to think twice and wonder where all that premium hike is coming from.

Plus, Obamacare did have some negative impact for employers. I don’t like that.

Of course. The whole thing is a transparent scam put before people to dull witted to recognize it for what it is. It is by necessity, like the tax code,confusing and difficult to the point that no 2 people in similar citcumstances have any chance of agreeing on identical plans in their best interests. Obama takes the hit of course, but it was the only option the insurers would allow in permitting the ineligible or poor people to participate.

Nobody needs health care insurance.

Everyone, at one time or another, needs health services, health care. Anyone who would chose to pay a middleman (insurance company) to administer their health care costs and to define the services available (THAT is our current “system” in the U.S.) I would consider them ignorant on several levels.

Nobody needs heath care insurance. I would be delighted to be rid of health care insurance, and all its paperwork and nickel-and-dime co-pay expenses and death panels, in exchange for heath care.

@dabbler Who would pay for your health care?

Yes, @dabbler. If you wound up in the hospital and had a bill for $300,000, who would pay for that?

I’d agree that somehow medical care gets funded.
Both single-payer systems, and completely socialized systems are funded from the national pool.
Yes, that’s everyone in the country. It’s not free and it doesn’t come down from angels.
There’s every reason to think costs are saved, simply by removing the parasitic middleman.
Medicare is a good example.