What happened to today's Gorilla question?

I missed both of them apparently but I do think the parents were, obviously, not watching the kid and sadly the Gorilla was killed. Of course accidents happen but how does a 3 yr. old manage to get over a barrier at a zoo if the parents are right there?

I just looked at it (by looking at lurve I received and that bringing me to the closed question) and it just says “This discussion is closed.” Maybe the mods felt it was too similar to the one asked the other day.

Its in the void.

It was beauty who killed the beast…

@jca. If it’s too similar I would think they should flush all those similar toilet questions we’ve had.

@dammitjanetfromvegas: Just a guess. Not really sure. Maybe a mod will come on and tell us.

It’s my guess as well, but they were two different questions imo. I hope we get an answer.

Ah!
I have been asking the mods this same question since I came back in this evening to see my question was removed as a duplicate.
A moderator was even one of the first members to respond to the question I asked.

Since the duplicate alert doesn’t function, how do we determine a question is a duplicate before we ask? Are we required to open every question asked in the past 6 months and read the details before we can post a new question?
Search was of no help. I searched Fluther (the search works fine from desktop) for “Cincinnati zoo gorilla” with no relevant results.

@jca was the first one on my question to bring up an alleged similarity to another question. I didn’t open the “mom blame” question until this evening and, honestly, I don’t see much similarity, and it was not a question I would have responded to. Don’t the details basically say, “Why blame the mom when men are more irresponsible with kids than women?”
Inflammatory bullshit, IMO.

Thanks for this question @dammitjanetfromvegas!

@DoNotKnowMuch:
.

The two questions are different @ibstubro. There’s no way for anyone to know what the first question was about because the title was vague. You wouldn’t know unless you opened it.

Apparently some users took issue with your question because they didn’t want to repeat themselves so they flagged it. You know, as if they are forced to answer every question.

The question was removed because @ibstubro acknowledged it as a duplicate (apparently before realizing that the questions aren’t the same). The only reason the question isn’t back is because @ibstubro hasn’t returned it for approval.

“Are we required to open every question asked in the past 6 months and read the details before we can post a new question?”

We only remove duplicates if they are within three months of each other. In any case, moderation isn’t punishment. You aren’t being judged for asking a duplicate question. So asking what you are required to do just seems to reflect a misunderstanding of the process. Duplicates are removed as a way of getting all of the relevant answers in one place rather than leaving them in two different places (where some might get missed) or making people duplicate their work.

Thank you!

Ah, you see, it’s all my fault.

I acknowledged my question as a duplicate, when is wasn’t?

The mod team pushed this to editing because the question is a duplicate.
“The only reason the question isn’t back is because @ibstubro hasn’t returned it for approval.”

How do you edit a duplicate question for re-submission?
“So asking what you are required to do just seems to reflect a misunderstanding of the process.”

This question is the closest thing I’ve seen in response to the 5–6 PMs and email messages I sent the moderation team about this.

At this point I would just ask a new question @ibstubro. That’s if you are still interested. Your resubmitted question would be buried under newer questions anyway.

“The only reason the question isn’t back is because @ibstubro hasn’t returned it for approval.”

Is a lie.
A lie of omission.
The question was pulled, and the options were “Edit” or “Abandon”.
I politely and sincerely asked the moderators for any guidance, using both the “Ask the mods” feature and return email, and never heard a word.
Yet @SavoirFaire is cognizant enough of the issue to post here.

“Resubmit and we’ll review” would have solved the problem before I ever even knew this question existed.

Seriously. Take this little gem out into the light and let it sparkle:
“The question was removed because @ibstubro acknowledged it as a duplicate (apparently before realizing that the questions aren’t the same). The only reason the question isn’t back is because @ibstubro hasn’t returned it for approval.”
I somehow removed my own question, then caused controversy by not putting it back.
All without a single word with a moderator.

@ibstubro: Did the mods write anything when it was removed other than that it was a duplicate?

@dammitjanetfromvegas has a good point – if you edit and resubmit, at this point it will be buried in the feed.

I can understand being annoyed. I’ve had things be modded for various reasons and I found it very annoying. A Jelly told me the other day that he left because he was modded and felt it was unjust.

I remember about a year after I first came here, I posted a “party” question for a Jelly that just hit 10k. Right after I posted mine, someone else posted for the same Jelly, same party. Mine was modded off and hers or his was kept up. The explanation I got at the time (from a mod who is no longer here) was that it was a duplicate. I didn’t comprehend since mine was up first, and I was very pissed. I didn’t post another party question until about six months ago – I figured f*** it. It’s annoying, it happens, probably everyone can relate.

Edit?
How do you edit a question pulled as a duplicate?
I asked this question of the moderators, repeatedly, and the closest thing to a response I’ve seen is here, on this question.

What’s annoying, @jca, is being told, on another question that the question was moderated in error and that simply resubmitting would resolve the matter.

I resubmitted the question, unaltered, and it was re-posted, unaltered.
All twisted logic and rhetoric aside.

@ibstubro “Ah, you see, it’s all my fault.”

Again, no one is saying that. Moderation is not a punishment, and there is no reason to assume that the person being moderated is being blamed or shamed for anything. Moderation is an editorial matter, not a moral one.

“I acknowledged my question as a duplicate, when is wasn’t?”

In response to someone calling your question a duplicate, you made the following comment: “Sorry, @jca, I didn’t see that question.” The moderator who removed your question (mis)interpreted this as an acknowledgment that the two questions were indeed similar. I don’t think it is mysterious why a statement from the asker that seems to affirm that their question really is a duplicate might weigh into the decision of someone who is investigating a question flagged for being a duplicate.

“How do you edit a duplicate question for re-submission?”

You click “edit” and return it with no changes. I know you are aware of this because you have done it before when protesting a moderation decision.

“This question is the closest thing I’ve seen in response to the 5–6 PMs and email messages I sent the moderation team about this.”

I cannot speak for any of the other moderators except to say that we are neither omniscient nor omnipresent. Unfortunately, there are times when no one is around. Speaking for myself now, I was not online for most of the day yesterday. I signed on once briefly in the morning (about an hour before all of this happened), and then not again until later in the evening. By the time I was aware of the issue, this question had already been asked. Answering here seemed the most efficient way to address both your questions and the controversy (particularly as you were already following the question).

Had any of your PMs been sent to me, I would have responded to them directly as well. As none of them were, however, I simply responded here instead. I then checked the moderation queue every five minutes until I went to sleep last night. And the first thing I did this morning after waking up was approve your resubmitted question.

OK, so no conspiracies here, folks. Please just look away.

Sorry, @jca:
”@ibstubro: Did the mods write anything when it was removed other than that it was a duplicate?”
No. Standard choices of “Edit” or “Abandon”.

The fact remains that @SavoirFaire [acting as moderator] could have put this to rest by sending me a PM that simply said “Please re-submit your question if you believe it should be re-evaluated. Thanks” before responding in open forum.

Yeah, shit, we all know that moderation is voluntary and can be spotty and uneven at times. I was unaware of the whole brouhaha for quite a while, and even noticed “the gorilla question” mentioned on other questions before I found this thread and posted here.

I don’t see where a moderator taking the tack “We are above reproach!” serves anyone’s best interests.

@ibstubro I don’t think that is a fair or correct description of @SavoirFaire‘s well-thought out and very temperate response to your and @dammitjanetfromvegas‘s speculative theories.

Lighten up, people.

Speculative? The duplicate question police were in full force and the questions asked were different. I witnessed it with my own eyes.

The people needing to lighten up are the ones who can’t handle talking about parental responsibility on a gorilla question.

@dammitjanetfromvegas Lighten up, woman. Yes, it was speculative. Here is what @istubro and @SavoirFaire had to say about it:

“I acknowledged my question as a duplicate, when is wasn’t?”

In response to someone calling your question a duplicate, you made the following comment: “Sorry, @jca, I didn’t see that question.” The moderator who removed your question (mis)interpreted this as an acknowledgment that the two questions were indeed similar. I don’t think it is mysterious why a statement from the asker that seems to affirm that their question really is a duplicate might weigh into the decision of someone who is investigating a question flagged for being a duplicate.

I’m not outraged. Ibstubro and I are asking questions. There’s a HUGE difference. So no need to tell me to lighten up.

“Sorry, @jca, I didn’t see that question.
I skip over a lot of questions without a specific topic that seem to have preconceived agenda.”

Seems like a pretty clear red flag to Doesn’t seem like “a fair or correct description of someone” ”investigating a question flagged for being a duplicate” to me, @marinelife.

For the record, my panties are not in a bunch, either! :-)

Dutchess asked a question with a title that gave us no idea about what the topic was. In the details she was male bashing. She asked why the mother was being blamed and not the father.

Ibstubro asked a very specific question, one you wouldn’t need details for to answer, that was asking if the parents or the zoo were at fault.

Two completely different questions. Several users came on to say it was a duplicate, one even saying we were beating a dead horse. Just who needs to lighten up? Skip the question if you are tired of discussing it, but let others do so if they want. This site belongs to more than just a handful of busybodies.

And yet question after question passes and is posted with ridiculous grammar, syntax and punctuation. I’d be curious to know why writing standards are no longer upheld. I saw a modded response with the explanation “writing standards” though I never saw the actual response and laughed myself silly. Really? Have you SEEN these questions? How shitty did thay have to be to get modded when the questions look like junior high stoner writing? This simply verifies for me an agenda and a double standard.

I don’t think that anyone on the site has an agenda or double standard.

I think the moderators do the best can: policing the site is a huge project.

@dammitjanetfromvegas and @ibstubro I didn’t think that you were wrong about the question not being a duplicate. I just thought @SavoirFaire‘s explanation made sense.

Has the question been put back up? If so, can someone send me a link?

I guess I just don’t understand what all the hostility is about

Where is there hostility? You are telling people to calm down when they are already calm. Why can’t we question things here without being accused of being angry?

It’s guerrilla warfare, but not as we know it

I edited Marina

“And yet question after question passes and is posted with ridiculous grammar, syntax and punctuation. I’d be curious to know why writing standards are no longer upheld. I saw a modded response with the explanation “writing standards” though I never saw the actual response and laughed myself silly. Really? Have you SEEN these questions? How shitty did thay have to be to get modded when the questions look like junior high stoner writing? This simply verifies for me an agenda and a double standard.”

“This site belongs to more than just a handful of busybodies.”

Sorry, Janet. I’m not sure what you are referring to in the post above (as being edited).

I asked a question about moderation a few days ago and I got responses along the lines of “If you don’t like it, start your own site” or something like that, and people making statements about attacking the mods. Whenever there’s discussion about the moderation, it’s not necessarily outrage or attacking the mods. It’s just looking for clarification and consistency.

Everyone understands the mods are not paid and they’re volunteering their own time, and doing the best they can. However, there’s nothing wrong with looking for clarification and consistency.

@ibstubro We were looking at a thread that was flagged, as well as considered a duplicate by a long-standing member. The OP seemingly agreed. There was not a lot of investigation warranted from our point of view. This was obviously not interpreted correctly, but we had no way of knowing until you sent us your first feedback message. It arrived among a bunch of flags and spam accounts, at a time when none of us were online. Four hours after you wrote your first message (which happened seven hours after the question was pulled), @SavoirFaire responded on this thread. Yes, that’s not a perfect response time – but we all check in regularly throughout our days, and I highly doubt we could find enough volunteers to guarantee Fluther being covered 24/7.

All this started out as nothing more than a misunderstanding. You are still free to re-submit your question. Alternatively, you could ask a question different enough to warrant a new thread – that’s entirely up to you.

@Jak We don’t see everything. When questions of poor quality are not flagged, we may not be aware of them. If you flagged these questions, there is a reason for their staying up. We cut new users a bit of slack, as well as those whose first language is not English.

We were looking at a thread that was flagged, as well as considered a duplicate by a long-standing member

@marinelife. This is what I mean by busybodies. The two questions were different, but this long standing member had to make a fuss because she didn’t want to discuss the Gorilla anymore. That’s her problem, not ours. No hostility here, just the truth.

It’s difficult to see how anyone could look at both questions and call duplicate. @jca had posted a link to “The Other Question”.

And at least one moderator had been active on both questions long before my question was removed as a dupe.

I collect antiques, and I spend hour and hours looking for something to buy. The first thing I do when I find a potential treasure? Start looking for a reason (flaws, etc) not to buy it.
I’d think the moderation process would be much the same…look for flags, then look for a reason not to remove the question.

If a moderator does not reply to this post, I will not feel slighted.
Just sayin.

I know the moderators rely on users to help by flagging, but even established members have an agenda at times. @ibstubro makes a good point. Don’t base your decision on a flag by itself. Look at the supposed duplicate in question, then decide.

For the record, I have no problem with the tone, content, or whatever of @dammitjanetfromvegas’ question. And while some of @ibstubro‘s responses have been abusive and/or accusatory, I understand that he is upset and have tried to focus on the actual substance of his questions (which I am happy to answer).

@ibstubro “The fact remains that @SavoirFaire [acting as moderator] could have put this to rest by sending me a PM that simply said “Please re-submit your question if you believe it should be re-evaluated. Thanks” before responding in open forum.”

Or I could answer both you and this question by posting here. Even if we assume you would have looked at a new message before going through your Activity for You, this added at best a few seconds to the time it took you to find out what to do. And since you have resubmitted questions with no changes before, I had no reason to think that you would not do so again after my first post here.

“I don’t see where a moderator taking the tack “We are above reproach!” serves anyone’s best interests.”

I don’t think this is a remotely plausible or charitable reading of what I have written here. I have stated that the moderators are neither omniscient for omnipresent. More importantly, I characterized the removal of your question as being based on a misinterpretation (a misinterpretation being necessarily and by definition a mistake). Therefore, I cannot be legitimately read as saying that the moderators are “above reproach.”

@dammitjanetfromvegas “Don’t base your decision on a flag by itself.”

Just to be clear, we do not go by flags alone. Even something with 10 flags (which is more than twice the number that anything has received in recent memory) might be allowed to stand. In this case, we had a flag, a statement from a member, and what looked like agreement from the asker. Furthermore, it was the last of these that was most influential in this case (and thus why @ibstubro correcting the misinterpretation was enough to get the decision reversed). That said, you are completely correct that flags alone should not be enough to get something removed and that some flags are motivated by reasons other than adherence to the site’s guidelines.

^^^ Hint hint ^^^^

To the moderators:
You have our sympathies!
Thanks for all you do.