[NSFW] What are your thoughts on this recent court case?

If I had 20 minutes of action with him, he wouldn’t have to worry about his swimming career anymore.

I am so infuriated with this whole case. He needs to really serve time and not just 6 months. He doesn’t seem to own up to his wrong doing in this case either. He wants to blame the girl for being drunk and feels that she gave consent by being drunk and passed out.
I truly think he will go on to do other horrific crimes against women because he thinks he can get away with it. He is a punk and he has a smirk that I want to wipe off of his ugly face.

/rant over.

The person at fault is the person who poured the drinks down his throat.

California judges can be removed by a recall vote. Also this judge is up for re-election.

Either way, I think he’s out of the job in November.

@kritiper That’s an interesting take. I’ve gotten pretty wasted a bunch of times without ever feeling the urge to rape anybody.

Another case of upper middle class white entitlement.

Reminds me of the kid with the affluenza defense.

@Call_Me_Jay He’s up for re-election, but running unopposed. There are various places people can lodge a protest or write a complaint. I won’t link to a specific one, but they’re easy to find with a Google search.

@dappled_leaves

Yes, the judge will be unopposed on the November ballot, so someone who wants to run against him must mount a write-in campaign.

Or, to force a recall election, someone has to collect signatures from about 50,000 registered California voters (a number equal to 20% of the voters in a Santa Clara election for Superior Court Judge).

A protest or complaint online has no effect on the November election or a recall.

Didn’t you know? Young men’s lives are more important than young women’s lives.

(Hopefully the public excoriation in social media along with having his mug shot plastered across the internet will result in long-term and ongoing punishment for him, since the judicial system didn’t.)

I bet if it was the judges daughter he would have a different view. I think all of his cases need to be reviewed. Does he have this same attitude to a drunk driver out for a joy ride who gets into an accident? Or a drunk who doesn’t have a stellar athletic background and who is maybe a C or D student?

Drunk, affluenza or any stupid thing like that should not be a reason to get away with a crime. We either have laws that apply equally despite of your back ground or laws are a joke and useless.

I hope the family can sue this boy and his family. I wish they could sue the judge. Rape is rape. It doesn’t matter if its 1 minute or 20 or an hour. It doesn’t matter if it was while they were conscious or unconscious. It doesn’t matter if she gave consent just before and changed her mind before penetration. No, is no and unconscious mean NO F-EN WAY!

If a person shoots someone while drunk, they are responsible. If they get in a car and kill someone while driving drunk, they are responsible. And so if you rape someone while drunk, you are equally responsible. He chose to drink, he should bear all the responsibility that comes with it.
If you have no control over your actions when drunk, then don’t drink or learn to deal with the consequences.
If I was on the jury I would’ve given him the same sentence as everyone else. That boy is a rapist at heart and he will do it again.
I’ve gotten drunk and never once did anything I didn’t want to do. And if I ever had, it would’ve been the last drink I ever had.
I hope he is barred from ever competing in any swim competition for the rest of his life. She has to live with her mistake and he should be forced to live with his in some way that will hurt him.

The only account of the rape that I’ve read is the victim’s powerful statement to the then-convicted rapist. Obviously, she has been through hell on this, which only started with the assault and then continued over the course of the investigation and preparation for the trial, then the trial itself – a year later.

As she noted in her statement, it would have been one thing if the then-defendant would have owned up to his actions, admitted to more guilt than simply “drinking too much” and apologized. She says in her statement that she would have been encouraged at that point to “let bygones be bygones” and forgo the criminal case. (After all, they were both incapacitated – and lacking judgment – due to the excessive alcohol consumption by each of them.)

However, his and his defense team’s insistence on taking this to and through trial – and taking her through that ordeal again – coupled with the fact of her injuries as well as the presence of mind that he had to position her in a semi-secluded spot (which demonstrate his superior capability to hers for the duration of the crime) – forced her to go the distance, too.

And that sentence…

Did the judge think that she was one of those “regret it the next morning, so call it rape” types? The kind who has to be convinced that a rape occurred by her friends because the guy didn’t call her back the next day? She was pretty brutally assaulted, from what I’ve been able to read. The men who stopped the attack may have literally saved her life.

And for that … a six-month sentence? Because more would have damaged the assailant? What does the judge think happened to the victim, I wonder?

The rapist’s voluntary statement says that he will plan to visit high school and college campuses “to talk about the dangers of teen drinking” … and that wasn’t viewed as a red flag by anyone but the victim herself?

This was a travesty.

Ok, I’m going to prevaricate here a little bit and say that I try to avoid rushing to judgment; I was not a juror and I am not privy to evidence presented in court. But he was unanimously found guilty by the jury, and the published comments (especially from the father and judge) are infuriating. So I find myself in agreement with this writer’s similar opinion.

20 minutes?! Holy fuck. Obviously, just even two seconds is too much, but his dad said 20 minutes? His son molested and penetrated the girl that long and the dad thinks it’s nothing? That’s a pretty long time.

I’m so disgusted at the way they are worried about how this will affect him. I can only hope he is tortured in his own mind with what he did, but I really doubt that is the case.

I don’t know how much time I want him to spend in prison, but I certainly want him to be remorseful, ashamed, apologize to the girl, and not say, “I only,” or, “it only lasted….” Screw that.

I’m assuming the girl was trashed out of her mind too? Not that anyone deserves to be assaulted, but I only mean this sort of thing happens all the time. Something similar happened in my dorm at college. I’m sure no one went to court or jail.

The drinking is out of hand.

If the girl is passed out from alcohol and the guy is alert enough to molest her, then I don’t care how drunk he is, he is a criminal in my mind. Treating a person like a thing.

Gawd. At least he does have to serve some time. I actually don’t want him to go to jail for years for this. Did they sentence him to rehab also for his alcohol abuse? Get some psych help.

Is the girl traumatized? Did she go to the police, or did someone happen upon the scene and report it?

For some perspective a member here (and I mean a member of Fluther that was pretty active) that took his own life a few months ago did six months for having a gram of weed in his sock in Tennessee.

55 years for selling $1,000 of marijuana

@johnpowell Wow. That is sad. It’s the first I’m hearing of it. Was it recent or some years back?

@Call_Me_Jay :: That is massively fucked. I can carry that in Oregon and it is totally legal. Shit, I have three plants growing in my backyard. Totally legal here.

@Pandora :: It was recent. Maybe two months ago.

—

@Pandora :: http://www.fluther.com/188486/rip-buster/

@johnpowell and @Call_Me_Jay, you lost me there. Is the comparison of being caught selling marijuana to someone who knows that it is or isn’t against the law in their locale and sexually penetratrating another human who hasn’t given their consent in the same category?

Buster’s situation is such a separate and tender category that it should not be compared to this case.

This has my head spinning. I never heard the expression “digitally penetrated” before. After the phrase “unconscious woman” there is no defense.

It’s time that the age old frat boy alcohol permission slip be revoked with prejudice. I’m not so much outraged by the leniency of the sentence as I am appalled by the stupidity of the crime and its participants. A woman passed out behind a dumpster is “fingered” for a full 20 minutes by a man in front of spectators. As for the leniency of the sentence, I hesitate to fault the judge without hearing his rationale. To my mind, prison time is a joke compared to a lifetime label of registered sex offender. When it comes to a young man’s future that tag is about as close to the exact opposite effect of Stanford grad as you can get. Plain old ex-felon pales in comparison.

@Pied_Pfeffer they are trying to demonstrate how disproportionate sentencing is for what are rather minor victimless offenses ( possession of marijuana) compared to the light sentence given for a sexual assault.

@Mariah “I’ve gotten pretty wasted a bunch of times without ever feeling the urge to rape anybody.”

Digital penetration isn’t rape. It’s sexual assault—which is a horrible crime, but surely at least marginally less bad than rape. It sounds awful to say that, but consider what happens if crimes are all punished with equivalent severity. Instead of sexual assault, a criminal may decide to escalate his crime to rape since the penalties would be the same.

6 months in jail seems too short by AT LEAST a couple of years for sure though.

@zenvelo Ah, if that is the case, then thank you for the explanation.

If you must drink, drink responsibly and be personally held responsible for your own actions.

The judge should apply the good old law of the talion to this case: An eye for an eye, a finger for a finger.

@gorillapaws I think it’s safe to say that @Mariah has never drunkenly felt the urge to stick her fingers into an unconscious, non-consenting woman’s vagina, either.

@AshlynM I hope to fucking god you are being sarcastic. Ah, your edit has made your comment much more palatable.

From what i’ve picked up here & using fundamental common sense together with clean moral ethics, i’d like to “digitally penetrate” this prick by inserting an iPad up his arse setting vibration alerts

If I were to completely believe both participants were drunk during the action I can say that they shouldn’t be too harsh in deciding punishment. Not to disrespect women but I just want to define this matter as fair as possible. Lets be honest, men have the ‘tool’ for sex and women have the ‘medium’. During the ‘rape’ scene who’s to say that both of them didn’t have the desire for sex and gave their consent, albeit unconsciously? It only happened that women didn’t possess the ‘tool’ and have been traditionally known to play passive roles, which is why they can always play safe and claim to be the victim of a sexual encounter, especially when there’s no proof to sustain such thing. Can we say that in reality they both actually agreed for sex and later the woman realized her action, regretted it, and wish to blame it on the man to save her face?

However, if there’s a reliable proof that she’s indeed, was being raped then the man is liable for the typical punishment for rape as regulated by the law. Did he wear any protection? If he didn’t wear any then 6 months of imprisonment sound like a joke compare to the amount possible threats the woman would get.

@gorillapaws Are you sure it isn’t rape? I thought any vaginal penetration is rape. When the sister of a girl I knew in high school was “penetrated” violently with an inanimate object and murdered and left dead at a construction site, I’m pretty sure authorities called it rape and murder. Maybe it varies by state.

I saw today on CNN.com (headline) that “thousands are calling for the judge’s removal.” (I didn’t read the article).

I hope the kid gets his ass beat in jail. It’s a shame he can’t be re-tried.

@unofficialmember The story isn’t exactly as you think it was. He had her laying outside behind bushes and was digitally assaulting her when passerbys saw what was happening and stopped him. The passerbys said she was unconscious. Even if she agreed at any point to have sex, when she passed out the guy should have stopped.

@Unofficial_Member you should read the victim’s statement before you go thinking that “Well, maybe she sorta consented.”

@Unofficial_Member: Do familiarize yourself with the case before making such an egregious statement. Google Brock Turner.

@Unofficial_Member: If I’m not mistaken, a drunk person cannot legally consent to sex.

She was penetrated without consent so she was raped. The young man while buzzed knew he was taking advantage. He deserves a harsh sentance. The poor woman should have not put herself in this situation either. When inebriated and alone you put yourself at great risk be it accidents, theft, rape etc… opportunists like this piece of shit are around.

@JLeslie I do think it varies by state. I’m just saying they are different acts and both cross that boundary of violating another person without their consent. One crime is clearly worse than the other, though. If you surveyed 1,000 women and gave them the choice of (1) being digitally penetrated against their will (sexual assault) or (2) having a man have sex with them against their will (rape), I’m pretty sure they would unanimously choose 1. Rape is worse, in part because it includes the additional risks of pregnancy, and the transmission of STDs.

I’m not defending this piece of shit either. I really don’t care what he or his father think about the situation. I don’t think he owned up to his responsibility, and he deserves a lot longer than 6 months to think about what he did. I’m just saying that in general, sexual assault and rape are 2 different crimes, and should be punished differently.

@gorillapaws Rape is a form of sexual assault, isn’t it? Isn’t sexual assault the umbrella term over all “sexual assaults?”

The kid’s a fucking scumbag and his father and the judge are no better.

It took me a little while to figure out how you could “digitally” penetrate someone lol

But yeah, fucking scumbags all round.

Now a friend of his is chiming in:

“This is completely different from a woman getting kidnapped and raped as she is walking to her car in a parking lot. That is a rapist. These are not rapists.”

I have to say, the one good thing to come out of this is the dialogue it has opened up. The victim is so brave for speaking out publically, I feel it’s her statement that really got people who otherwise wouldn’t care to think in an empathetic way about rape.

@Mariah I think she should be the one out talking to teens, not him.

@mariah “These” are not rapists? There are more? There is a group of these guys having sex with unconscious women? Someone should look into this group of friends! I am now fully outraged.

@JLeslie I think that’s right. All rapes are sexual assault, but not all sexual assaults are rape, or more formally: rape is a subset of sexual assault that is even more horrible and deserves extra punishment. It’s logically equivalent to saying all apples are fruit, but all fruit are not apples.

This is my problem. Young people are stupid, and I’m not saying this to offend any young people here. I’m just speaking from my own personal experience. I didn’t sexually assault anyone, probably because the average girl was likely to beat the shit out of me, but nonetheless the stupid things I did were embarrassing and plentiful. Now I’m making no excuses for this man, because what he did is inexcusable, drunk or not. It’s only that every aspect of this thing as I hear it is more stupid than prurient or evil.

^It truly is stupid and wrong. The worst part, IMO, is that he has expressed no remorse or sorrow and his dad is making excuses for him.

Personally, I would sentence the fool to 2 years of cleaning public toilets in skid row areas 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Perhaps wearing coveralls emblazoned with the word DUMMY.

I think Brock Turner’s legal defense is valid.
Basically, Why me?

Because his case was tried in the court of public opinion driven by media ratings, his life should be ruined?

The call to remove the judge is the post powerful statement and outcome from this case.

“What are your thoughts on this recent court case?”

Those are my thoughts, as asked, and any attempt to invalidate them is a personal attack, by any measure.

@chyna He can’t express remorse. I’m sure he is being advised by lawyers what to do, and his parents are telling him to shut the hell up and do as told. I want him to have remorse and apologize to her also, but he’s locked in because of the system.

If you were his mom, what would you want? I’d want him to have remorse, I’d hope to God he had remorse. I wouldn’t care he lost his scholarship, tough shit, he did something awful, there is a price to pay for it. Except that the parents will pay part of the actual dollar price in the end for that most likely. I would hope for probation for my son if he was traumatized and filled with regret when I see him behind closed doors.

@ibstubro: Your opinion is your opinion and I would never attack it, as I am always saying on here (when people attack mine) that it’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it. I just don’t understand what Chappaquiddick (in your link) has to do with this case.

I was pretty fucking stupid when I was young but I’m certain nothing like this ever even crossed my mind drunk or sober. Young, dumb, smart or old this was quite wrong and the perp knew it

^^That’s the thing I can’t get past easily. I don’t think most men would fathom doing such a thing to woman, I don’t care how drunk. That’s why I say he has something missing. His elevator does not go all the way to the top.

People hate to hear this, but women do need to hear that they can’t get drunk like that, they can’t leave their drink unsupervised (in the victims statement she sounded drugged to me, but I guess they would have tested for that). That’s not blaming the victim, it’s advising women bad people are out there, be cautious.

@JLeslie thank you for making so much sense. It’s not victim blaming. That happens but advising caution, common sense and analyzing what went wrong is not victim blaming.

@JLeslie Creepers will always exist and yes, women should take actions to protect themselves against them. I do think though that such sentiments are totally irrelevant in a court of law during a rape case. Getting drunk to the point of blackout might be irresponsible but it’s not illegal. It doesn’t make his raping her any less illegal. To me, bringing it up in court is just an attempt to obfuscate the responsibility.

I am sure his defense attorney did exactly that. Yet another example of why I hold lawyers in such high esteem~
Apologies for any lawyers we may have on fluther

not really

@Mariah Absolutely. Court of law is different. If a woman gets drunk and is assaulted, that doesn’t make the attacker less guilty. I think the problem is people conflate the two things. Some women will be so stuck on a man shouldn’t assault a woman no matter what, that they fail to be prudent and take precautions.

I’m not shocked and I am surprised anyone is shocked. This is typical.

@zenvelo :: Is correct. My point is that one dude wanted to smoke a plant and watch tv in his house with some Doritos. The other dude raped a woman behind a dumpster.

They got the same punishment.

I apologize for not completely comprehending this particular situation. Rape happens every now and then so I simply treated it the same way I assume how a typical rape might happen without the need to google this incident beforehand.

I still stand firmly with my point that if no protection was involved then the punishment should be severe. Of course his parents want the punishment as light as possible. I mean, what parents want to see their child linger that long in jail, and what parents wouldn’t believe their own child’s claim that the woman was the first person to seduce their child. We can’t blame his parents for what they will naturally do for their child.

@Unofficial_Member

One’s hand refers to digits, penetration refers to the action of penetrating; therefore digital penetration equals shoving your hand in ones cooch. Probably no chance of a sexually transmitted disease or pregnancy. My guess would be that he was too drunk to get his tiny penis up.

^Oh I see. Another apology from me. Lol. I thought the ‘digitally’ term here is actually a computerized term that is used as a euphemism for how someone is being penetrated. At least she’s lucky that it wasn’t a penis that violate her body. Thanks for the clarification.

The 300 pound gorilla in the room is that had this been a man that was abused in some way while inebriated, this discussion would be all about AA and Al Anon. Not that it would be excusing the attacker (it would not), but, ultimately, it would be the man’s responsibility for having put himself in a vulnerable position by abusing alcohol. The call here would be for the man to empower himself by seeking help for his alcohol problem and taking control of his own destiny.
Victimized while he was drunk and alone in a strange environment? He’s obviously on the path to ruin unless he seeks some kind of help.

Men are not seen as inherent victims, but are humans that allow themselves to be put in a position where they can be victimized.

@ibstubro…but but…rape culture!

You just made up a scenario that didn’t happen, made up responses that you disagree with to that made up scenario, and then wrote a 4 paragraph rant against the made up responses that nobody said about the made up scenario that didn’t happen?????

Straw man much? Whose mouths do you suppose you’re putting those words into? My opinion is that rape is never the fault of the victim regardless of gender.

Wtf….

I just read this statement from the Swedish men who stopped the crime as it was happening. It made me tear up. Thank God for them.

@ibstubro In my first answer I said the drinking is out of hand. I meant both of them.

My assumption is the perpetrators lawyer suggested he give lectures about drinking. I think people in and around the case are concerned about the drinking. Obviously, the lawyer would suggest to make the defendant look like he wanted to do something positive to stop this sort of thing from happening. Make him “look” good. It’s no excuse though. As I said, when you hear the details of the story, I don’t believe any good man would do anything like this, even when drink. I also said probably the victim should give lectures about drinking and staying safe and in control.

I don’t think most people are ignoring the alcohol problem. Whether it’s actually alcoholism or just a one time excessive night we don’t know, but it’s more likely it’s not an unusual occurrence.

If a man was sexually assaulted I feel confident we still would be horrified and want the perpetrator convicted of the crime.

@JLeslie Thanks for sharing the link regarding the comments from the two people who intervened.

When one person sexually violates another, meaning without consent, then there is something seriously wrong with that person that has very little or nothing to do with alcohol/drug abuse.l

@Pied_Pfeffer The alcohol could make a bad person more likely to act on his impulses. Alcohol inhibits our inhibitors. Assuming he has some inhibitors in that brain of his, the alcohol reduces the effectivity of them.

So, should we forgive people for impulsively murdering their spouse, or robbing a bank, or driving drunk and hitting a bus of schoolchildren, because alcohol reduced their inhibitions?

It was just in the news that they know he was doing drugs and drinking in high school. He was doing acid and other drugs. This is contrary to what he told the judge. He portrayed himself as a good kid from Ohio that had a low tolerance for alcohol because he never drank before.
He will be in trouble in the future because he never gets in trouble for his actions.

@Seek fuck no.

@Seek No! As @Mariah pointed out and I agreed with, alcohol is not an excuse. It also doesn’t change that a person did something criminal. Pointing out the effects and risks of alcohol is about dealing with the reality of the safety concern.

Does a drunk driver have less culpability when he crashed into another car? No. Is it worth pointing out drinking might make a person more likely to crash? I think so. In the case of driving it’s a double whammy with the law, you’re cited for the DUI and responsible for the crash. The alcohol doesn’t make someone less responsible.

relevant

^^Many years ago a 16 year old schoolmate of mine was killed in a head on collision by a drunk driver. The drunk driver was the daughter of a police officer, and she had a previous DUI. The word was the judge was easy on her, because her dad was a cop. She didn’t have her license suspended. This is back when drunk driving laws were more lenient to begin with.

That good ol’ boy connection and leniency wound up with his daughter dying, and killing another girl (my schoolmate) and injuring another friend of mine pretty badly.

Sometimes punishment saves the life of the person being punished. If her dad had not used his connections his daughter might be alive today, and my friend.

Sometimes the Onion just says it like it is under the veil of “satire” Gotta respect them for that.

By all means, follow the drunk driving thought.
As I think @kritiper was dismissed for doing in the 3rd post.

After a night of heavy drinking, two people get in a car.
The passenger immediately passes out, while the driver, after a few blocks, passes out and hits a telephone pole. The passenger is killed, the driver unharmed.

Pardon me if I actually support my contention that mitigating circumstances can influence the punishment a judge deems fit:
Link
Link
Link
Bar link

Alcohol in no way removes moral responsibility.

@ARE_you_kidding_me Has it straight. Any chance the judge will be removed?

If anyone would care to hear a moderated discussion on this topic, I would strongly encourage them to listen to The Stanford Rape Case And Why It’s Sparking Public Outrage currently playing on NPR’s, “The Diane Rehm Show”.

Excellent, well rounded, discussion including similar cases, the role of alcohol in campus sexual misconduct cases, why this case was sexual assault instead of rape (and why that distinction is important), campus police vs legal system prosecution, the judge’s decision, etc., etc.

In any case, I believe the listener comes away with the distinct idea that there’s nothing to be gained by painting this as a black-and-white, open-and-shut case of wealthy white male privilege.
There’s an amazing discussion to be had here, and a lot to be learned. Fortunately, someone, somewhere else is allowing that discussion.

I don’t actually think this was white wealth and male privilege. I think it was a psychopath hiding behind that. A drunk driver causing an accident and getting off with little more than a slap on the wrist would be affluenza. There was predatory intent behind this. Worlds apart. I don’t think in black and white either but this does not appear to have enough white mixed in to make it appear gray.

The white wealth and male privilege came in when the judge, also a Stanford student athlete, wrote that a light jail sentence was necessary because, “a prison sentence would have a severe impact on [Turner]”.

Meaning it’s fine to send people with shitty non-white lives to prison.. But we mustn’t disturb the pleasant life of a sensitive deserving person like Brock Turner.

Today it’s on the news that the kid dropped acid and was not the angel he portrayed himself out to be to the court. Surprise, surprise.

WHAT?

I mean, he’s a rapist, sure, but a perjurer?

Surely you jest!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think I would be suicidal if I were his mother.

Hindsight.
20/20
What was brought before the judge at the trial?

Or was the trial ever part of the discussion?
Court case?

Or was the trial ever part of the discussion? Court case?

Don’t play dumb. Convicted rapist Brock Turner was found guilty by a jury of three offenses:

—Assault with intent to rape
—Sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object
—Sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object

And the judge, @Call_Me_Jay, based his sentencing on all the information he was given. Which was more than the information available to the public.

That the prosecutor asked the judge for 6 years – less than half the maximum of 14 – is itself a red flag that the case was flawed.

it’s fine to send people with shitty non-white lives to prison

it’s fine to send people with shitty non-white lives to prison

I just don’t feel like this is a question that should be reduced to a 30 second soundbite, and I don’t believe that discouraging discussion serves any purpose.

The judge had “more than the information available to the public.”

Yes, yes he did have more.

“Several images that prosecutors referenced during the trial are included…The court documents also include a photo sent via the ‘Group Me’ app that is said to be the victim’s breasts, photographed at the time of the sexual assault.”

“The documents also show that he behaved in a predatory manner towards other young women at the frat party where he met the woman he would rape: he kept forcing kisses on the victim’s younger sister as she ‘wiggled out of his hold.’ ”

link