Is the cult of the gun in America merely another example of the country dumbing down?

In addition it can be attributed to fear and distrust also that law will be able to protect the individuals and they don’t have to do it on their own.

I don’t think so. It’s sort of a subtle distinction, but the answer is no.

I think people gravitate to guns in search of perceived security. Note that I do not say “security” outright, because I don’t think that guns, per se, provide security. But the population perceives that their security can be enhanced through the use of guns. I don’t think that’s dumb, although I think it is mistaken.

Personal and tribal security is not dumb – it is a fundamental characteristic of society, and it has been for thousands of years. The quest to protect ones self and ones family is not dumb at all – it’s survival, and it is anthropologically a fundamental building block of society.

To get back to your specific question – it’s not a dumb thing to try and protect yourself. Using guns for protection is as legitimate as using knives or bows and arrows or machetes.

On the contrary, everyone having and packing a gun requires a lot of common sense and intellect. When everyone fully understands the law of the gun, or the rules of proper gunplay, everyone will be safer.

It’s about slavery and the fear of the black man rising up to take revenge on his white masters. That’s really where the “cult of the gun” started. Even now fear is still used to drive gun sales.

it’s not a dumb thing to try and protect yourself.

It’s dumb to “protect” yourself against imaginary threats.

If you spend any time reading the forums where people describe themselves as “gun person” and “2nd amendment supporter”, the low level of intelligence is clear.

Dumb people are impressionable. Tell them they are personally threatened by Black Lives Matter or “urban” thugs, and they flock to the gun stores.

And they’re proud of of their fear and ignorant beliefs. They’ll loudly tell you that Obama is the best gun salesman ever.

I occasionally subscribe to the NRA email list. The over-the-top hysteria over imminent threats reads like an Onion article. And that’s how they make money – by appealing to people who believe anything that agrees with their prejudice.

Of course not, that kind of judgemental shortcut is simply paying lip service to those who fancy themselves to have higher intellect because they feel they have the moral high ground on some issue. That usually is indicative of the opposite. Dumbing down is happening because America simply needs to shut the television off.

@ARE_you_kidding_me Got it in one.

@kritiper “everyone having and packing a gun requires a lot of common sense and intellect” Can we in fact rely on the average gun owner to meet that requirement? I would agree that the average person with a gun comes up to that standard MOST OF THE TIME, whether the weapon is registered or not.

But consider the hypothetical situation which very much mirrors our own. All of us admit that there are individuals among us from 4 year olds to psychopaths, who have no business near a weapon. For the remainder of us the likliehood of some episode where “common sense and intellect” take some time off is more or less inevitable: the night you’re falling down drunk, or the night some falling down drunk runs over your dog, the day you walk in on your wife and the postman. So what happens in a society where guns outnumber fire extinguishers to the tune of 300 to one. How many people reading this can put their hands on a gun faster than they can locate the closest fire extinguisher? But I’m drifting from the point.

Just assume there’s a society in which guns are so numerous that any and everyone can lay their hands on one. Then assume that the primary way to demonstrate your unsuitability in having one is to shoot somebody. Then ask yourself what good is the actual PROOF of unsuitability if ANYONE can get their hands on a gun. And finally, what sort of result would you predict for a land of unlimited weaponry where everyone is in actual fact able to shoot whomever they please for whatever reason appeals to them? Now predict what sort of future awaits us.

There is only 1 reason that we here blow one another away at such a staggering rate. And that is because here it is just plain easy to do so. There are those who argue that things will improve when everyone is armed. It seems we are well on the way to testing that particular proposition in earnest.

How many people reading this can put their hands on a gun faster than they can locate the closest fire extinguisher?

That’s fucking poignant.

I would venture to say none. Fire extinguishers are ubiquitous and if you don’t have one within about 10 seconds reach then it’s time to get one or two more. I personally have more fire extingushers than firearms.

Yes that’s why we all feel so much safer with that fire extinguisher under the seat in our car or in the top drawer of the nightstand beside our bed. And then there’s the huge proliferation of extinguisher shows.

I don’t know anyone who treats fire extinguishing as a hobby. Not an effective tool to put food on the table with or remove pests from destroying your land.

You really can’ feed your family in America today without a Glock and a concealed carry license. Or an AR-15.

Yep. You can’t live without them. People without those are starving.

Yes, of course it’s the explosive numbers of folks shooting their meals and pests that accounts for the glut of weaponry, but you can’t stop wondering which society will suffer the higher homicide rate? The one in which every man, woman and child is armed to the teeth, or the one with no access to weapons?

We have the gun cult and the anti-gun cult. The clash is an example of the country dumbing down? When the USA had no anti-gun cult there was no problem. Modern countries that have no gun cult have no problem. It is the clash between the two that is a problem.

When the USA had no anti-gun cult there was no problem.

When will those anti-gun people stop shooting thousands and thousands of Americans every year?

They are such a big problem!

@stanleybmanly According to the rules of gunplay, you learn or die. Simple enough.

Learn what?

The unwillingness of the NRA et al. to concede the difference between a civilian owning a hand gun or hunting rifle and a civilian owning an automatic assault rifle is certainly frustrating. I’d call that sort of stubborn lack of distinction “a failure of intellect.”

If you are a firearm enthusiast ,who is simply intending to hunt, protect, or target shoot. No biggie. If you’re buying a gun ,or certain type because you think you won’t be able to anymore, you suck.
I sold firearms, part time , for the last 3 years. It was at a big box sporting goods store. When the Sandy Hook incident occurred, I had people who had never even fired a gun, buying AR-15’s. For ‘home protection. ’ Can’t think of a much worse home defense weapon… They were easily swayed sheep, who came to buy something that might be deemed too dangerous for society, because they might not be able to buy it later. In the months following that incident, we couldn’t keep them on stick. People lined up at the door before we opened, both to purchase one of the weapons, or 5.56mm / .223 Cal ammo…
We sold countless guns, and millions of rounds of ammo. If we had more, we would have sold more, but distribution was overwhelmed by demand. Prices at local gun stores tripled in some cases. A $600 gun became $2,000. I heard of people buying used AR’s for $3,000 or more, and paying $2 a round for 5.56 and .223.
To me, it was scary. There was no real oversight of who bought whay, or how many. They just had to pass a background check in the form of a 4473 . But if a person buys 12 AR’s and 100,000 rounds at a gun show (back then the ammo was too scarce to buy it at my store) nobody even cares. The only real filter, or thing stopping a person of questionable character from buying a gun is the salesperson. Some, simply don’t care. They just want the money.

It always amused me when someone would talk bad about Obama if they sold guns. He was the best thing for arms manufacturers/dealers in history. People acted like he was going to land on their lawn in a helicopter and personally take all their guns, because he wants them to be defenseless for when he puts us in death camps….
People are FUCKING IDIOTS. But at least in America, they are heavily armed fucking idiots….

America is passed the point of no return. There are far to many in circulation to logistically outlaw a certain type or confiscate…
This is America now. Like it or not.

@stanleybmanly The rules of gunplay!
Rule #1: NEVER pull a gun on someone if you don’t intend to use deadly intent to shoot them and kill them. Understand the possible consequences of your actions!
Rule #2: ALWAYS shoot to kill. (Dead men tell no tales or testify against you. If you kill them, you don’t have to pay for any of their medical bills or for recovery therapy.) See rule # 1.
Rule # 3: If you draw your gun, be deliberate! Be sure of your target. MAKE EACH SHOT COUNT! See rule # 2.

Now that’s simple enough, isn’t it?

Kritiper. The act of pulling the trigger is indeed simple. Living with it is different.Many variables play into the firing of a weapon.

As they say ‘bullet ain’t got no name’ to defend stray / unintended casualties, you sadly left out, the actual guideline…Which is, “Be sure of your target, AND WHATS BEYOND IT.“You were good otherwise. Bullets can easily permeate drywall, wood , and glass. Shotgun loads are better for HD because of the unequal power close up (within 20 yds) and stopping power. And best of all, the small pellets don’t penetrate nearly as much as a slug.
With bullets, it’s not good to shoot them in a crowd, or dwelling . That’s part of the reason cops use JHP instead of FMJ usually. The JHP has increased stopping power in close proximity(with similar penetration ), while it also is a projectile designed for soft tissue, not wood, drywall, brick etc. The idea is, if cops shoot a few rounds in a crowd, the projectile, if it doesn’t hit soft tissue, will shatter ,instead of ricochet. Therefore , reducing slightly the chance of unintended casualties.
Bottom line. You better be an EXPERT marksman to open fire anywhere but your house. Even then, you risk injuring , or killing a person who is in proximity.

@kritiper thanks for the clarification.

@MrGrimm888 – Or accidentally shooting your own family members thinking they’re intruders

@MrGrimm888 If one doesn’t understand the rules, one shouldn’t play. I understand the rules. Many obviously don’t.
It’s a dirty, nasty game for those who chose to play! Nastier if one doesn’t play by the rules!

It’s going to be an interesting experiment, our return to a gun-slinging frontier mentality. Back when I was 10 sitting around watching the Lone Ranger, Gunsmoke, etc. on the bulky old black & white, if you had told me those days were returning in 50–60 years, l would assume you to be an escapee from one of the multitude of mental institutions. Curious that our “civilization” has “advanced” to the stage we lived through in the 1880s. We’ve probably diminished the number of mental health facilities to 1880 levels as well while gun toting displaces baseball as the “national pastime ”. That’s progess for you.

@kritiper It sounds like you are in daily combat. That sounds interesting. Tell us all about that.

Seek, always a pleasure. Try searching for articles where a rape victim can leave her house now because she has a concealed carry permit. Or when a home invasion was stopped by the home owner by pointing a gun at the intruder until police got there. Or a hiker who defended himself from a bear. Or the shop owner who isn’t robbed anymore because he has a shotgun under his counter now. Not all firearms stories end badly. Most uses of firearms go as planned.

Like kritiper and me were talking about the rules. Be aware of your target, and what’s beyond it. In the article you posted, this man wasn’t sure of his target, but fired anyway. If he followed protocols, his estranged son would be alive. I also feel it was stupid on the part of the estranged son. When breaking and entering you are discovered by the homeowner, who announced he was armed and asked for identification and police were otw, the man failed to respond.
Bottom line is that guns are tools. Tools that can kill a person if safety measures aren’t taken . A table saw is quite deadly if you don’t follow safety guidelines. A lot more people in America cut off fingers and smash hands with machinery than are shot breaking into their estranged father’s house…
As with any tool, people already thought of the dangers associated with tool, and put forth rules designed to keep the operator from accidents.

This gun owner was not competent in his decision making. Sounds like he fired on a man who was right against his kitchen window. So, even if it were a shooting of a strange intruder, he may have injured or killed someone in his own house. He exercised poor judgment through the process. He stated he called the police before going outside. Also stupid, responding officers could have mistaken him for an armed assailant and killed him. Guns are a last resort. He should have called the police, stayed inside with his family, and only if the house was breached, then loaded a round in the chamber, then , if sure of his target (that it wasn’t someone he knew) , sure of what was behind the taget and it’s his last option, then fire for effect.

The police could have arrived and cleared his area, afterwards he could have spoken with the officers over the phone about feeling safe to open his door and interact with officers on scene. Again, he made multiple bad choices, and now someone is dead.

I also feel it’s relevant to say, his estranged son’s motives for breaking in were unclear.He could have become a desperate drug addict or something. He may have intended to burglarize his father’s house. Most addicts start stealing from their family first. They know where valuables are and ramifications for being caught are usually more lenient. He didn’t respond when approached by his armed father. Not saying that I would kill my estranged son over a break in, but the fact remains that this was a B & E in progress. Both parties showed extremely poor judgment in this case.

In addition, hopefully you live a long happy life. But if one night, if you find yourself and the kid in your picture staring at a door being actively broken into while police are still 20 minutes away my guess is you would prefer a firearm over a kitchen knife, or baseball bat. Your attitude suggests that you haven’t been cornered by someone who might wish you harm. (And that’s good)

As I mentioned in other threads, I have sadly been a part time firearms salesperson in the past. I spoke to several women who had been assaulted or raped in their past. They all had common stories. After the attacks, their lives were lived in fear. Many became reclusive or didn’t leave their home anymore. They felt vulnerable (which they are to a man.) There lives( or ability to enjoy life) were taken from them by the cowardly act. Once they obtain a firearm, and are trained in its operations and safety the next step is a concealed weapons permit. They don’t have to shoot everything in sight. But they feel like they aren’t a potential victim anymore when they have a gun on them. They are free to go out into the world again. For most people bums are a piece of mind thing.They have no intention of shooting anyone. But knowing that if it came to it, they could potentially save their lives or that of their families is a comfort.
Sometimes my father has to stay in the hospital overnight for his many afflictions. My Mom is very scared without him at night. The only way she can sleep is because of the comfort of a pistol in her nightstand. Their dog died recently, so that is her only realistic form of protection. She stands little chance of defending herself with a bat. She’s almost 70 yrs old.

Like I said. Weapons are a tool. When properly used and stored they are useful. Don’t bring up kids killing themselves with guns they fingers either. Because again proper protocol is to keep a gun in a house with children inaccessible. If a 4 yr old finds a reciprocating saw and kills itself with it, same thing. Keep all ‘tools’ with capacity to injure or kill away from those not capable of safety operating said tool.

Peace n love

@MrGrimm888. GA

There is a significant history of mental health issues and self-harm in my family.

I will not keep a firearm in my house. The potential to use one in defence vanishes against the risk of it contributing to the harm of my loved ones.

I’ll just have to settle for locked doors and a barking dog.

Understood Seek. Life is risk vs reward. Your evaluation of your options seems feasible. And I’m sure you thought it out.
Dogs are a great deterent. Several times when I sold guns, I would get older people who recently had break ins trying to buy guns for protection. If I didn’t feel , through our conversation, that they would be capable of using a firearm safely, I would discuss their comfort level with obtaining a dog. I usually recommended a rescue dog that was already house broken. I would like to think that in some instances, I kept a gun out of unqualified hands, and saved a shelter dog in one interaction….

I’ve been told by cops that even if you don’t have a dog, get an extra large dog dish and keep it outside your place.

My dog would probably try to cuddle up with the theives. A dog dish is a good idea though. Door alarms and random timed lights help too. While we are on the subject I’m considering an alarm system right now, just don’t know if it’s going to be much more effective than basic window and door alarms. I see a gun for protection as an absolute last resort. but one that is needed If theives are just taking stuff then plan A is to get the hell out of the way and call the cops once enough distance is between us.

A company I used to work for had extra stickers from their alarm company. I put them on my front and back windows. I can’t afford such a nice system. But nobody else has to know that.Every little bit helps. I like the dog bowl. Never heard that one before. Indeed, deception is sometimes effective in nature. Like a puffer fish making itself look bigger a more intimidating when ‘puffed up. ’

@Call_Me_Jay No, not in daily combat, although daily life is a sort of combat.
Dealing with people and guns requires a lot of just plain common sense. Knowing how to be safe with guns is good to know.
My dad was raised by cattle ranchers in Wyoming back in the 30’s. There were still lots of cowboys, soldiers, gunfighters around from the old west of the 1880s. Lots of mysterious killings, hangings. All sorts of stuff. Dad gleaned lots of information about guns and people from these old timers, as well as the likes of Charles M. Russell.
Some old westerns are very exact when portraying people with guns. In reality, if you didn’t watch what you were doing or what you were saying, and you pissed some guy off too much, you might find yourself dead some morning from ambush by rifle or shotgun. It happened all too often! And not out in the street at high noon like so many westerns suggest.
I know a guy who was having some kind of road rage incident with another driver one day. This guy thought he’d scare the other guy a little, so he flashed a gun at him. He scared him all right. And broke the law by doing it. (He didn’t get caught but that’s beside the point. He broke the law!)
What I say here about gunplay is how I see it. How I would conduct myself if I carried and what I would do if I found myself in a situation where I might have to pull my gun. I do have guns and I treat them with great respect. Gunplay is not for the timid or the undecided. It is mighty serious shit!

Here in America some people give lip service to freedom until somebody does something actually free. Then they start saying “Uh oh, we gotta put a stop to that!”

This is no excuse for such a ridiculous question unless you are not American. There is no cult of the gun. Gun ownership has always been part of the American way of life. Always. The only thing new is the weak-minded population who are controlled by the likes of NBC and the inept current Federal administration.

The Constitution is not new. We’ve lived under it the whole time we have existed. That has included the right to own firearms and the actual ownership of firearms.

Any more intelligent questions?

The constitution isn’t new @MollyMcGuire, the weapons capabilities are. And the ability of those who shouldn’t be able to wield theses advanced weapons to buy them is not addressed in the constitution. And the ease with which one can aquire them is not realistic. Just because someone has the right to bear arms, doesn’t mean that they should be able to aquire them without evaluation of their ability to safely operate them.

The 2nd intended for citizens to have the same type of arms that a standing infantry soldier would.

Correct, but it doesn’t mention competence to aquire/own weapons beyond the comprehension of the men that drafted it. They tried to think of everything, but they neglected several subjects. That’s why they left it open to amendment. People often have the misinterpreted view that things like impeachment, or amendment are a failure of our democracy. It is the opposite. Those are the functions of a healthy democracy. Not admited failure. People were always the ones intended to have the power, so in part having equal weapons made the government HAVE to respect the people. But our founding fathers never could have conceived of the power of weapons governments would eventually wield. I never said people shouldn’t be able to own military style weapons. Only that the process of aquiring them should be harder ,depending on the weapons capabilities.

Civilian weapons are already toned down quite a bit and I think to an appropriate degree. I think we have let commercial interests write the talking points for firearms for too long. While not as common as you think gun nuts really give your garden variety gun owner a bad name. Most of us are not hoarding ammo or attaching every tactical fad widget to our AR. We don’t march down main street with a rifle sling in tote “just because it’s legal” That really pisses me off.

@ARE you kidding me. When I worked a gun counter in the past 3 years. The type of enthusiasts you describe, that ‘piss you off,’ made up about 60% of my customers. Many lined up before the store would open to buy 22LR , .223, 5.56 rounds because we would sell out of any quantity in minutes or hours. Most were very comfortable telling me of their distaste of Obama. They personally blain him and Democrats for them not being able to find ammo. Even though their own behavior is the reason why certain calibers were unavailable. People would curse at me for only allowing them one box a day. Some changed clothes in the parking lot to try and get more. At least where I live, the nuts you speak of are not a minority.

Citizens should own guns so they can protect the nation against enemies foreign or elected.

@SmartAZ I completely agree as long as they’re in a well regulated militia (i.e. the National Guard).

@MrGrimm888 no they are not the majority they are just the ones that you will see more often working at the counter.