How much violence is too much?(details )

The problem isn’t going to be solved with police funding. Education and jobs are the solution.

There is a large swath of the population with no education and no prospects. They literally have nothing better to do than crime.

“Forty-seven percent of 20— to 24-year-old black men in Chicago, and 44 percent in Illinois, were out of school and out of work in 2014, compared with 20 percent of Hispanic men and 10 percent of white men in the same age group” link

We need a radical re-organization so that most kids are getting a decent education and the skills to earn a living.

I wish I could tell you the steps to achieve this, but I don’t know.

The mindset determining our priorities is clearly out of whack. If air superiority actually requires a plane that costs a billion dollars a pop, there are clearly reasons for questioning the economic feasibility of the F-35. The idea of billion dollar planes deployed world wide by a landd of crumbling roads, rusting bridges and declining standards of living, seems a rather queer choice, but then again, those defense jobs do pay a living wage.

Let’s put some things in some perspective, okay? If we’re going to have any military force at all to project force abroad – the need for which has been evident many times in the past century, even if one does not agree with every deployment – then yes, air superiority is an unquestioned and absolute priority. At least it is now and will be until more modern forms of warfare are developed which require an even “higher” degree of military superiority.

I have grave reservations about the Pentagon’s (and Congress’) development and procurement policies. A Navy carrier-based fighter / bomber / fleet protector does not have the same requirements as an Air Force long range interceptor / fighter and does not have the same requirements as a Marine or Army combat air support fighter / attack plane. So the one-plane-for-all-missions (and parts-from-every-ally-and-every-Congressional District) is clearly not the best way to design, procure and develop the next generation of jet fighter / bomber. That’s why it has cost so much to design and develop, taken so long, and run into so much criticism – and still isn’t deployed.

Nevertheless, the plane is not “a billion dollars a pop” as some, notably @stanleybmanly, have mentioned. Just like “the first aspirin off a new aspirin production line” can also “cost a million dollars” or more, over time and as the procurement contracts are met, the per-copy cost comes down more in line with equivalent planes.

So, yes, we need “a next generation fighter / bomber”, absolutely. And yes, the design, development and procurement chain is whacked, because Congress and the Pentagon deliberately make it so. But that aside, it’s a necessary evil.

Also, as @Call_Me_Jay accurately states, solving the problem of crime in Chicago – or anywhere else – is not a matter of throwing money at the problem. If it was, Washington DC would be Heaven on Earth.

The plane is not a billion dollars apiece. But regardless, US military spending is greater that than the second thru 9 ninth place spenders COMBINED.

And we just lost two wars to guys in sandals wielding AKs and IEDs.

Military spending is harming US security and interests.

New York “putting a cop on each corner” did not cut crime rates. In fact, there is evidence that it actually increased crime rates. The man who has single-handedly hammered the “broken windows theory” into every gestapo unit across Amerika, James Wilson, is an outright fascist and is the single person most to blame for turning Amerika into an increasingly oppressive police state.

What cut crime rates in New York was probably the elimination of lead from gasoline. It’s one of the leading theories for crime rates dropping all across the US at about the same time, particularly in urban areas. We know that increased levels of lead is associated with aggression and excitability, and when lead was removed from gasoline, crime rates began following a downward trajectory.

What the broken windows theory does do is turn poverty into a crime. The premise is that cracking down on “nuisance” activities like begging, skateboarding, graffiti art, etc., shows police will not tolerate serious crime, so bank robbers and rapists go into hiding while homeless people get brutalized in prison at a cost of $300+ per day to the State. This is, of course, utter horseshit.

And there isn’t too much violence, there’s too little. It’s just pointed at the wrong targets.

“The police and army are there to keep a brake on the people and assure the landowners’ tranquility. But if they have guns and cannons, there’s no reason why we have to fight empty handed. We know how to use guns too, and can get hold of them with astuteness and courage.” – Errico Malatesta

@SmashTheState And there isn’t too much violence, there’s too little

That is a horrendous childish idea.

I live in Chicago. I have lived most of my adult life here since 1988.

I have spent time in neighborhoods where you hear gunfire every night. I am not exaggerating. Every night. I have seen people carried away in ambulances and I have stood by while cops with flashlights mark the shells and families cried.

Fuck right off with your call for violence, typing anonymously on the Internet.

^Wise words @Call Me Jay.

More violence is NOT the answer.

Anonymous? I’ve spent 25 years in the public eye calling for revolution. And it’s very easy for you people to wash your hands like Pontius Pilate and talk about peace and love while it’s people like me and the people I care about dying down here at the bottom of the dogpile. I’ve buried too many fucking friends whose crime was to be poor to cry crocodile tears for the State’s gestapo street gang of armed thugs.

When you talk about fighter jets, you’re talking about federal tax money. When you talk about Chicago police and the lack of resources not recourses, you’re talking about local taxes. In a poor area, there is not going to be a lot of money for things like local services (street cleaning, police, fire, social services). That’s why there is much money in the US for military and wars but many areas of the country lack basics like an ample police force. Newark NJ has the same problem – many big cities do, too, because there’s not a lot of local money from taxes.

@SmashTheState

Reining in police abuse is necessary. Their training and methods need reform. But fighting the police in the streets will not gain anything

The world you want exists today in Iraq and Syria. There’s no need to rail against the system, get yourself a plane ticket.

@jca, sorry for the typo. My ‘smart’ phone often makes me look stupid.

I also never said the jets were a billion dollars a piece. Somewhere that got tangled.

I understand the difference between federal and state tax money. But it’s really all from the same pile. And the same people.

@CWOTUS. We already enjoy air superiority, and likely would even with inferior planes due to training. New jets are NOT required for the US to still ‘police’ the world, as we so frequently do,with NO authority to do so. The F-35 project is a HUGE waste of money and ultimately a luxury item. Economically speaking, this country is not doing well. Hell, this country isn’t doing well in any sense. Spending countless dollars so that we can further alienate ourselves, and make more enemies is a slap in the face to those living in poverty, and it’s subsequent side effects (violence, drugs,death, low education, poor health. )

The truth is, we (USA) have plenty of money and resources to take care of our own. But billions upon billions are spent lining the pockets of defense contractors. It’s total bullshit. For every dollar burger I consume ,I can read an article about how the US just built a new type of stealth helicopter, battleship, submarine, aircraft carrier, guided missile, drone, IED resistant hummer, laser guided this and that etc.

It amounts to an international pissing contest. And it’s getting really old.

@MrGrimm888 today’s military spending – when we’re not already in a war (cough, cough) is to be prepared for wars that may occur within the next 5 – 10 years or more. And next-generation fighter jets are always required, as soon as one is introduced. (I’m sure that there is already an F-35 replacement plane on figurative drawing boards, and if not here, then elsewhere in the world.) So I don’t begrudge planners, developers and the Pentagon for their perceived need to always be developing and acquiring better equipment.

I agree that the US attempts to do too much with military force projection for non-existential threats to the country, but that’s a separate issue. As long as we have a blue-water navy we need to have carrier-based planes that are the best that we can afford to protect those fleets. If you want to make that case that we should not have a blue-water navy, then make that case.

Since we have a continental-sized nation to protect, and treaty commitments overseas as well, then we also need the best ground-based air force that we can afford. And given that we do send ground forces overseas (I’m not arguing whether we should or should not here), then we also need to afford them the best combat air support and battlefield protection that can be provided.

If you can get people to elect politicians who won’t throw down around the world – sometimes just to distract voters from what they’re doing at home – then perhaps we could afford to spend less on our military and use them less. But that hasn’t been our recent history. Even our Nobel Peace Prize winning president has not been immune from the lure of “projecting force” for non-essential reasons.

^Sad but true….

It’s had the attention of the government. Neighborhoods have to be involved to make a change. That is not what the cops are for.

^They’re supposed to ‘protect and serve.’(cops)

The neighborhoods are as involved as they can be. Should they take ‘justice’ in their own hands?

It sounds like you’re blaming the community for not being able to control gang warfare due to poverty and drug sales/abuse.

“Justice” is simply the code of behaviour dictated by the guy with the biggest gun, which is almost inevitably the State. You create justice by having the most force.

“Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you’re a man, you take it.” – Malcolm X

^That’s the problem @SmashTheState.
People in those impoverished areas ARE taking what they want. They ARE using force,on each other. In the process women and children are being hurt,or killed.

They also pay taxes. That money is distributed to many sources. One of those is Police. They are supposed to stop your anarchy lifestyle from being reality. If funding is an issue they simply need more.

The ‘State,’ which you hate so much needs to use it’s Police ‘force’ to try and keep the violence down. I’m afraid I don’t share your opinion that lead is to blame for the violence.

I don’t know the solution, but it seems like the government has simply given up on these impoverished neighborhoods.

If you pay taxes in America, you shouldn’t have to have a bullet proof vest to walk to school,or just sleep in your home.