Are most men clueless?

I’ve spent my life fighting the empty stereotypes listed on both of these threads, so unsurprisingly I’m going to say, “No.” Of course most men are not clueless. Most men are not anything. Most women are not anything. People are individuals.

No, just white noise peddled about by a very small minority of women who, evidently, love the sound of their own cackle voice

You’re clueless, I’m clueless, until we develop telepathy and the wisdom to understand the information that yields, we are all just bumbling about.
That other thread’s responses smacked to me of clichéed conditioning that is so pernicious and goes so deeply into the neurons of our society that we often don’t realize it’s there. Your comment over there, @Cruiser, about shopping was so clichéed and 60s sitcom-esque that I almost choked. That wasn’t the only one. On here I have also seen those kinds of clichéed posts about men, I wince at those as well.
These things reinforce the rift-causing stereotypes.

And just FYI, if she prefers shopping to dinner with you, it says way more about her lack of desire to spend one on one time with you than her enjoyment of shopping.

Short answer is yes, IMO. We are and will always be clueless to women’s minds.

Is what it is.

Sorry @canidmajor I stand by my answer as it is relevant to my life and has been as long as I have had a SO and or wife. Plus my wife is cunning in that she talks me into going shopping with her and wouldn’t you know it, when we are done shopping it is always right around dinner time and we end up going out to dinner. It’s not that she spends money like water just the opposite, it is only made worse when she brings home furniture, paintings…stuff from the re-sale shop and so little matches our decor and I will voice my opinions and not only am I the bad guy but she will justify her purchases saying all we have to do is repaint it. WHO will repaint it?? I just don’t get it and I have learned to not question it…accept it as one of those things about her I will never understand.

As far as your answer over on that question….oh snap! You did not offer one.

@Cruiser No one said that your relationship with your wife is not what you claim it is. We’re just saying that it’s not typical of all relationships between women and men. It’s your experience; it doesn’t have to be everyone else’s experience, too.

If this dynamic is not the result of your gender roles, and is the result of your personal relationship with each other, that means you both have the power to change it. This is a good thing.

Your stunning generalization was what I was addressing, @Cruiser, that’s all.
And as far as my not offering an answer on that other question, it was specifically directed at men and…oh snap! I’m not a man.

@canidmajor We will just have to agree to disagree and my comment was anything but a generalization. I would say that it would be a rarity to find a woman that doesn’t like to shop in all age groups of women. My wife, SIL’s, MIL, most of my neighbors wives, my close friends wives, both my secretaries as they spend nearly every lunch break hitting the stores. I hear from all the men SO similar stories of these shopping excursions and they don’t even have to buy anything. So far @Seek is the only one to articulate a disdain for clothes shopping and that is clearly due to a traumatic experience and I am going to assume I can add you to this short list or would that be generalizing on my part?

When you have the same kinds of experiences with different men / women, either it’s a gender thing OR we tend to gravitate toward the same kind of men / women every time. << That’s most likely.
Most of the men I’ve known aren’t very good with money. They want big, expensive toys, but don’t worry about whether or not they can actually afford it. They want it. Everything else is secondary. Don’t know why the hell I would gravitate toward that kind of man. But…I have it under control. He spends. I don’t.

The only thing I think that seems to be standard with men is their preoccupation with their penis, and they don’t seem to understand why women could care less about them. Some of them literally don’t believe it.

Other than that it’s just different personalities. I know plenty of clueless women.

@Cruiser, from everything I’ve learned about you, I think you’re an awesome husband. (Want to go to dinner? And when we get back would you finish sanding that 100+ year old pine door I made you steal out of a 100+ year old building I used to own so I could do something craftsy with it? :) )

@Cruiser, actually I said I don’t like shopping. Yesterday was the first time in months I’ve visited a shopping center. I needed three things. I had a list. I bought and left.

I shop when I need things. I avoid it otherwise. When traveling, and I include cites like Rome, Milan, Paris, London, Hong Kong, I did not go shopping. Most of my female friends are not shoppers. Perhaps your experience is about who you choose as a partner and who those people choose to be friends with.

I loathe shopping! Especially at malls. I like poking around at Goodwill and garage sales tho. So does my husband. We like auctions.
On the other hand, if we go to Walmart I am IN and OUT. 15 minutes. I get what I came for and I’m gone. My husband meanders looking at all the stuff. He spends way more than I do on needless things.

Well, @Cruiser, I just hang with a different class of women, I guess. Most of the women I know, and hang out with, do not fit your description at all, and I imagine that they are a boatload more interesting than the women you know. My friends dress nicely, but don’t choose shopping over other activities that are more engaging, like just about everything.
But if those are the women that float your boat, have at it.

@Earthbound_Misfit Could very well be a Chicago/suburban/midwestern thing as I have been around the block and at 56 yrs old I have been around 100’s of women and only my 2 sisters, one lives on a ranch the other has had to wear the US Air force uniform for 35 years I would say do not enjoy or care to shop…the rest do and hence my observation.

@canidmajor I would then have to agree with you there as you give me the impression you would not get along with the highly intelligent fun loving people I hang out with.

@Cruiser No, I don’t think you’re clueless, and we are all victims of a certain amount of conditioning as @canidmajor mentions, but…there is, also, more than a grain of truth to many stereotypes as well. Most men like sports, some more than others, but saying most men like sports is not a generalization.
I’m a women who doesn’t find shopping all the time to be of much interest. I have enjoyed finding decorative items for my home and fun clothing over the years but…my shopping forays are occasional, with a purpose/need in mind and shopping is not something I would consider a hobby. haha

Infact, when I traveled with several other women in asia a few years back I ended up ditching them and going my own way as ALL they wanted to do was shop, shop, shop, for knockoff clothes/shoes/purses.
I wanted to see the sights, check out the natural surroundings, explore the culture and food.
It took about 3 days and I completely split and went off on my own, short of the days we had other, sightseeing plans. It may be cliche and stereotyped but a LOT of women ARE shop-a-holic types and are addicted to buying, anything, period.
I did not see @Cruiser ‘s statement as a stunning generalization, as I would agree that most women I have known are very into shopping, a lot.

Of course they always toss out disclaimers about how, really, they don’t shop that much, and are fond of telling you all the reasons why they bought something, what a deal it was, how they really weren’t looking to buy the item but it was such a good deal, etc. All a cover for someone that knows they shop too much. haha

Most women I know are also into shopping, more so than the men. However, we women also are under pressure to look a certain way. Wearing the same thing twice in a year is a no-no. (I’m exaggerating.)
If a woman gives me a compliment on an outfit, they invariably want to know where I got it and how much I paid. I always get odd looks when I say, “Goodwill. $5.99.” Not the right answer, apparently.

I think I’m becoming ever more gender fluid as I read. (Except that I do prefer to snuggle with boys.)

^^^^ Yes. With just a few exception both my husband and I break all gender stereotypes.

He spends.
I save.

I deal with things logically.
He is much more emotional.

I hate shopping.
He loves shopping.

I’m not fond of his driving (but he is improving) and he’s been in far more wrecks than I have (not including wrecks from his racing days.)

And Lord, the man loves to gossip. His whole family is that way. At the first (his) family reunion we went to after my hospitalization, I wasn’t feeling well, so I privately told him was going to the car to lay down for a minute. When I came back, 15 minutes later, everybody was like, “Are you OK? What’s wrong? Are you feeling better now? Maybe you should go sit down!” I got on Rick about that. I hate that kind of attention and it wasn’t anybody else’s business.

Yes. There is a reason why the world is as messed up as it is.

My most clueless moments usually hit me years later when I realized that certain women were actually hitting on me and I was just oblivious to it. Some serious opportunities missed. My wife sometimes has to remind me to get out of my head a little and pay attention to hints she is dropping. I can be a bit too literal and at times insensitive. I just have to tell her to be direct with me but it’s not really in her nature. It’s a southern thing also to beat around the bush and not be direct. Drives me crazy sometimes at work or out in public. Polite people are a little annoying at times.

I’d say my biggest Ahah! moment was when I realized that when she comes to me with problems she does not want me to solve them. She is looking for a little support. I can imagine a couple of years of frustration when she needed support and I said “well just do this, this and this….”

Yeah, I don’t like going to my husband with problems because his response is to get angry with whomever or whatever the situation is. His anger doesn’t help me at all. It stresses me out even more. So I just keep it to myself.

Well, that is not exactly healthy. Keeping it to yourself that is. Anger is not so much either. I do know not to get angry, Even though I keep the fact that I am to myself She’s been sexually harassed at two jobs now and this last time I was so pissed I wanted to confront the asshole personally but I had recently paid our debt off and was able to afford for her to just quit if it continued which thankfully she agreed to do, and did

Well, it’s much easier! Much less stressful. I end up worrying about whatever and trying to do damage control due to his anger. I keep most everything to myself.

They say hell have no fury like a woman scorned, same goes when someone messes with a mans woman. It’s just old biology coming out.

I guess! So that’s why he never knows if someone is messing with me! Unless I WANT them to get beat up. Then I would tell him. ;)

Well, containing anger is a learned behavior and not exactly an easy one to acquire.

It just seems to be his go-to emotion. He doesn’t get frustrated or bummed or confused. He just gets angry. It’s learned as well, I’m sure.

Well, I was twice the “man” and more women than my ex could handle. lol

I’m clueless what was this thread about?

Wow… Wow… Wow… with the responses.

@Cruiser. You are a stand up man with an intelligent wife and friends. I’d love to hang with you and your family.

Different strokes does not make one better than everyone else.

We are all clueless

I can speak for myself and yes, many times I am clueless. I thought this was right or something you would like but evidently not. Or maybe just not at this time. I don’t know for sure but what I do know is that it is without a doubt my fault. I tend to coast through life with as little thought and as few complications as possible. I have been married a bunch of years now, have a daughter and a granddaughter and yet I have been and am unable to fathom the female mind. Men, yeah, They are fairly easy, most of their wants and desires fall into the basic pattern, food, shelter, sex….......... but the ladies? No. They seem to have a different agenda or perhaps plan that requires much more foresight than I have to determine the exact make-up.

Ah well, such is life.

I think I will go get a beer and sandwich before going to sleep on the sofa.

^GA ×10

I’m not only clueless, but I have no idea what I’m clueless about.

@rojo Let them go shopping as often as the want and you will no longer be clueless,,,trust me on this one!~

I like @rojo‘s answer. But it’s odd how in tune to our “different agenda” men seem to be when they’re courting us. Then, after we’re all settled, they can’t figure us out any more.

Courting is all together different story from both sides..)

@jonsblond, you said ”Different strokes does not make one better than everyone else.” I think that depends. Men, and women, who resort to screaming, hitting, childish temper tantrums and the “silent treatment” are cut below.

@imrainmaker Why? Why would my now-husband remember the first birthday I had when we first got together, and never remember it again after that?

Thanks @jonsblond I think it would be fun to hang out with you and Jon as well! :)

Me too! Me too!

Well @Dutchess_III During courting period both parties are trying to impress each other hence the difference.

I know that. The question is, how do men know our “other agenda” during that time and then forget it once the relationship is established?

@Dutchess. You are speaking about emotional maturity. I’m speaking about likes and preferences. Some women prefer to spend the day shopping and some would rather watch sports or read. These activities do not make anyone more intelligent than the other.

I agree.