Women, gay men. Do you deserve the respect? (Details )

You are truly an example of patriarchy, so graciously bestowing your respect and admiration of women.

And now you lump in gay men? What, are yo some sort of antediluvian throwback?

People don’t want special rights, they want equal rights. They don’t want the largesse of your granting them rights. They aren’t yours to bestow!!

Quit doing us all a favor.

By the way, I am neither a woman or a gay man. I believe in treating people with respect because they are human, not because you deign to honor them.

Uh. I’m sorry for respecting you?

Good god.

what the hell are you talking about

Please explain what you mean by “If men are nice to you it’s not ok?” I am confused.

^I don’t understand any confusion. We think of women as very valuable, where I live.
What’s the confusion?

There is a difference between being respectful and being patronising.
“We think of women as very valuable, where I live.”
And that is the problem. You think of women, whether consciously or subconsciously, as things, as objects.

^Oh my… It’s a ‘problem’ to value women?

I’m SO lost.

why do you think that women deserve some special consideration over men?

I think there’s some kind of miscommunication going on here. Either @MrGrimm888 means “women and gay men deserve special privelege” or “women and gay men need to be respected”.

Women and gay men need more respect than what they have now, not than anyone else.

If you mean the latter, I can kind of understand. But if you mean the former, that’s exactly why those self-serving assholes using feminism as an excuse “fight” in the first place.

Putting women, homosexuals or other minorities on a pedestal is a poor attempt at emotional blackmail and rather condescending.

@MrGrimm888 You don’t get it. You don’t get to decide what to value or not value! It isn’t your role, your right, you place, your position to judge or value anyone for how they were born or who they are. People get to judge or value other people on their actions, just as we are judging you on your paternalistic view that you have the divine right to put women on a pedestal. I don;t care that you think women should be elevated and worshiped. You don’t get to elevate others!

No, really, @MrGrimm888, in what way are you nice to us that is not ok?

This has got to be some elaborate troll.

“Women, gay men. Do you deserve the respect?
I think you do.”

(sniff)

You smell that? I smell that. I wonder what is that smell….

(sniff some more)

Ahh, I get it, it’s sarcasm!

not gonna work, hun

I didn’t decide women’s role, or respect. It was a environmental thing. Women, in my experience , are very important. A lot of the gay men I know, who identify as gay are equally important.

No trap intended.

Just wanted authentic opinions

No sarcasm. No.agenda. Just a question.

I think these people deserve our respect. Some apparently don’t want the respect. They may see it as patronizing. Instead of built in respect. I don’t understand why I can’t have a natural respect for women. Why is that offensive?

Why is it offensive to be appreciative, and authenticly great full to women?

I’m completely stumped.

No really, @MrGrimm888, in what way are you nice to us that is not ok?

@MrGrimm888 Men start being “nice” to a girl when she’s about 12. When she hits middle age, and loses that youthful bloom, all that “niceness” magically disappears. Wonder why that is? Could it be that temporary “respect” is more hopeful manipulation than anything else?

People deserve respect on an individual basis, based on how they act. People don’t automatically deserve respect just because of their gender or sexual preference or color.

I find it interesting how you put men at the top and everyone else, women, gay folks, folks of color, below you and try to discuss how “they” should be treated.

Oy.

Vey.

This sounds a lot like the Middle Eastern guys I used to work with explaining that they keep their women modest and escort them everywhere because they are so beautiful and respect them so much that they cannot risk anyone else looking at them. It’s for their own safety!

I’m so confused.

I’m pretty confused too.

My mother is a great person. She made me feel like all women were great people, with great value to society . And therfore deserve my respect .

I’m just curious what women think about their role.

As I said. In my life, a woman is treated a certain way, in a good way. This is an insult?

I’m clearly messed up in my head.

I had an ex girlfriend once who didn’t like me carrying the groceries for her. I’m just stronger, so it’s less of an inconvenience to me. I want my girl to enjoy every second of life, and lugging groceries was something I could do with less effort.

Opening doors for females is a big deal where I’m from.

It’s a sign of respect. What’s the problem with respecting females, and treating them as if they have value, and meaning?

I feel like if I open the door for a female, I’m ‘taking away her power.’ Now…

But if I dont, I’m a rude asshole. To me…

Most women take it as a sign of respect, and move on with their lives.

I will continue to be nice and respectful to all females I know.

Dutchess, I have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re saying that because I think women deserve respect because they’re women is a bad thing? Ok…..~

I may have missed where I called men superior. If you READ my responses, I clearly state that females are at least, if not MORE important than males.

I wish I never asked this question. Clearly I’m wrong. ‘Females don’t deserve respect.’

Well. I’ll still admire and respect females. No matter how terrible that makes me….

@MrGrimm888 Your statements above though, don’t show respect, but rather that you in your infinite grace will bestow respect upon the weaker sex.

Ok. Whatever. Sorry…

I do not want to be respected “as much or more than a male” because I am female.

I want to be respected because I am a human being.

I do not want human rights equal to a man, I want human rights because I am a human.

I do not want you to hold the door when I am carrying packages because I am a woman and you feel a burden to help women. I would appreciate immensely you holding the door because you recognize I am encumbered and want to help.

I do not want any man assuming he has the right to determine how much respect I deserve based on my biological sex.

@MrGrimm888

“I had an ex girlfriend once who didn’t like me carrying the groceries for her.”

Did she ever say why she didn’t like you carrying them for her?

Perhaps she wanted and enjoyed the exercise involved.

^I did a lot for her. She said I made her feel helpless sometimes by helping her.

I also didn’t beat the shit out of her like her boyfriend before me. She stayed with him for like 4 years. She cheated on me after about 3 months.

Women seem to prefer men who treat them badly. I can’t treat someone I care about badly….

Those super-respectful sweeping generalizations again.

“She said I made her feel helpless sometimes by helping her.”

Did you respect her feelings about that and then not interfere when she wanted to do things for herself?

Respect is earned, so just being female should not make it automatic. “Automatic” respect is not respect. Allowing a woman to earn it on her own merit is. Work is a good example, if you can be fully competent and be that person that people lean on for knowledge or just getting the job done kind of respect is actual respect. Its not paying lipservice to it or “granting” it by default as if it was yours to give. That is condescending.

Also, what some guys think of as chivalry actually is not.

Yeah so I’m a guy, whatever. I am married.

@Brian1946 . Yes. After that discussion I stopped.

It may be relevant that she was a coke head, who didn’t deserve my respect. I was 19 years old. And, like now, stupid.

I’m sorry. But women can make more people. They are a walking miracle. They have the strength to survive any pain , or situation. And are most likely to out live a man. Women are simply more valuable.

It doesn’t make you a bad woman if you don’t accept your importance, and stature in your community. But
how does it hurt?

And how does valuing females hurt?

We are literally sitting here telling you why your version of “respect” and “valuing” is wrong and you are not paying any attention at all to what we are saying. Which is exactly the opposite of respect and value.

I think you are actually confusing respect and admiration. You can’t “give” respect, it’s more of an acknowlegement. A person earns respect by building it. It simply cannot be given.

@Seek . Most women I know are in a bad relationship. They aren’t respected by their boyfriends as equals. They are sometimes forced to have sex, beaten, or frequently verbally abused.
When they get a boyfriend who doesn’t do those things, they don’t like him. I’m just going by what I witness.

If life were a chess match
Certain pieces have higher value because of their abilities. A woman has the highest value to me.

I know though. I’m a bad person for thinking that. And you can ‘sit there and tell me I’m wrong’ but I’m right.

@ARE you kidding me . A stranger on the street gets a certain, base respect from me. A strange female gets a little more. It’s earned by her abilities, given from nature. Not by me, or her.

Should I clutch my pearls, thank you for being so chivalrous, and offer to put on my high heels and bring you a chilled Martini?

^What does that have to do with anything?

I agree with @ARE_you_kidding_me – you’re not describing respect.

You’re describing the fact that you’re in awe of basic female anatomy. Which, while it’s adorable that you’re still so shocked at how humans work, doesn’t really equate to respecting someone as a person.

Deep sigh…. I tried….

This is getting Kafka-esque.

“I tried”

Not really.

I’m throwing in the towel. Please feel free to cast further aspersions upon my character for granting women respect for just having to be a woman. They go through a lot in this world, and they’re capable of making life. No respect due.

Sorry for caring.

It’s still closer to admiration. There are plenty of women born who do not deserve anyone’s respect.

Uh huh. So this wasn’t an attempt to understand or appreciate how other people feel, just a way for you to demand we accept your backhanded compliment.

Feel free to take your ball and go home. I don’t care. But don’t claim that you respect me for whatever reason in the same breath you’re telling me you have no interest in my thoughts on the matter.

Yes, we do go through a lot in the world. A lot of the shit we go through is at the hands of people who think they know better than we do what we deserve and what we should think.

I also have to wonder how your hierarchy of respect takes into account women who cannot bear children, or women who choose not to.

They’re all beautiful. They all deserve respect.

This might make it easier. There is a concept known as ‘subtle prejudice’. For example. I love all black people, I really like Red Indians. All people from Denmark and Norway or slim. Other examples, people over 40 are so wise, black women are better in bed, all guys under 20 can think of is sex. The list is endless.

Alongside that would be, all women deserve respect. All women feel oppressed, all women are insulted when you are nice to them, all women want to carry their own parcels. Those are notions based on prejudice. Or limited experience of ‘all women’.

I also would not categorize in your assumptions, all gay men and women. I see the two as both very exclusive but also inclusive. If you follow?

Why is it I seemed to get so much more “respect” when I was young and beautiful and sexually attractive? Now I’m just left to fend for myself, which is fine. It’s not like I don’t know how to open a door or change a tire or change the oil in my car.

That wasn’t really “respect,” of course.

@Dutchess_III I think you said that before and I actually burst out laughing, so very true. Somewhere along the line, we become invisible. At times I certainly need help with my parcels now, much more than when I was 20!

Right?

@MrGrimm888, would you have asked this question, phrased this way, about African Americans?

^African Americans I know have self value. African American women especially, are a valued, and respected by their community. When you give them respect, they don’t throw it in your face , and say I don’t understand why I respect them is actually a form of prejudice.

This thread is probably the one I wish I never posted the most.

The answer is clear to me now. No….The don’t deserve it.

My mother taught me to respect all women. But she never told me too. She taught me respect through her words, actions, and love. Same with the other women I grew up around.

I will lose much sleep over the females here offended by my respect, admiration, and gratitude. ~

It’s ridiculous to give some one your respect just because of their gender or color or any other physical attribute. Respect has to be earned. Lots of women, and men, don’t deserve our respect.

Maybe you’re confusing every day manners and politeness with respect. Everyone deserves to be treated politely.

^Maybe you’re right.