Is Trump really that different than Warren Buffet?
Asked by
JLeslie (
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October 3rd, 2016
from iPhone
I know Buffet has spoken out for years about the unfairness of the tax system against the average middle class worker, but do you think if we looked at Buffet’s tax returns that he didn’t take all the tax savings he could? Especially regarding his business and investments?
Moreover, why are people all wound up regarding Trump writing off a loss? Don’t you want to be able to write off losses?
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24 Answers
Trump structured paper losses to offset income, and used specific real estate development tax loopholes.
Warren Buffet has done tax avoidance by making large donations to charities.
The structure of losses that Trump wrote off are for the very wealthy. Saying you support those is like saying you support the very wealthy not paying anything because they bless us with their investments.
Trump also directed money owed to him to his charity, so it would not be taxable income. Then he used the charity money for personal expenses.
It’s like stealing from the church collection plate to buy yourself nice things.
It’s called self dealing and it is absolutely forbidden – tax exemption is granted for non-profit work, not to benefit yourself and evade taxes.
Washington Post – Sept 20, 2016 - Donald Trump spent more than a quarter-million dollars from his charitable foundation to settle lawsuits that involved the billionaire’s for-profit businesses”
TPM – Sept 23, 2016 - “Multiple times, Trump wrote foundations checks for items—self-portraits, sports paraphernalia—he had purchased at charity events.
@zenvelo You may want to find a different example than “Trumps tax deductions are only for the very wealthy”. You correctly mention that Buffets deductions are there because of his contributions to charities. When you look under the hood, those contributions are of appreciated property which if he kept these “properties” he would have to pay taxes on the gains at his higher rate, but instead he gives them away. He only cashes in what he needs to off set his ordinary income amount that would be taxed at the 35% or whatever percent and then sits back and let all the other income which is all capital gains and dividend income taxed at the miniscule 15%. Even he brags he pays the lowest effective tax rate in his office. This is such a powerful tool for him that he still has over 10 billion in carry overs he can use on future returns and with that much in carry over….he may never pay his higher tax rate for as long as he lives.
”Buffett and Bill Gates asked other billionaires to sign their pledge to donate half their net worth to charity in similar fashion. Others are not as wealthy as Buffett, so figure 50 billionaires’ times $5 billion of tax savings equals $250 billion of taxes diverted from the IRS and states.”
Trumps tax maneuvers are childs play compared to the likes of Buffet, Gates etc.
@Cruiser I was only restating the NY Times article from Saturday. In it, they said:
“Tax experts hired by The Times to analyze Mr. Trump’s 1995 records said that tax rules especially advantageous to wealthy filers would have allowed Mr. Trump to use his $916 million loss to cancel out an equivalent amount of taxable income over an 18-year period”
Buffett and Bill Gates asked other billionaires to sign their pledge to donate half their net worth to charity in similar fashion. Others are not as wealthy as Buffett, so figure 50 billionaires’ times $5 billion of tax savings equals $250 billion of taxes diverted from the IRS and states.”
That is a guess as to what MIGHT happen in the future IF fifty people did something in the FUTURE.
Irrelevant.
Is Buffet running for president and boasting about his tax avoidance?
In spite of his boasting, I would hazard a guess that Trump knows about as much about the tax code and system as does Joe Average Citizen. His advantage is that he has a horde of tax attorneys and accountants at his beck and call and THEY know the system.
Following his logic, we should not be electing him to office but his head accountant.
@rojo I wish I could link to the accountants quote but the other day someone reported that the accountant had a tough time watching Trump turn in the tax filings he did for him that showed little to no tax due or even the losses for that matter all the while living in the lap of luxury. Seemed to really bother the man deeply.
@rojo That’s what I was thinking.
@cruiser I think the story you are thinking of is a deposition of Trump’s accountant in one of his hundreds of lawsuits.
The accountant said he didn’t prepare the return. Trump’s people forged his signature.
The Daily Beast – June 15, 2016 - But when shown a photocopy of Trump’s 1984 tax return, Mitnick testified that “we did not” prepare that return, referring to himself and his firm, and he said did not know who did. However, Mitnick did not dispute that it was his signature on the photocopy.
Among the issues raised by Mitnick’s 1992 testimony is whether Trump or someone acting on his behalf substituted a return that he or someone else prepared and then transferred Mitnick’s signature using a photocopier.
@Call_Me_Jay Nope…you made me go find the quote…
“Mr. Mitnick, (Trumps old accountant) though, said there were times when even he, for all his years helping wealthy New Yorkers navigate the tax code, found it difficult to face the incongruity of his work for Mr. Trump. He felt keenly aware that Mr. Trump was living a life of unimaginable luxury thanks in part to Mr. Mitnick’s ability to relieve him of the burden of paying taxes like everyone else.”
Actually the whole article is a good read if you want to know the whole story on Trump and his use of the current tax codes. This same accountant praises Trumps command and understanding of the tax codes to be extremely good.
@Cruiser
Who Buffet supports is irrelevant to the question. He’s not asking us to put him into office while boasting about his gaming the system.
@Darth_Algar No but he is using his power and influence to game the system to support Hillary. Trump is asking voters to elect him and Buffet is asking voters to vote for Hillary…..really how is that any different?
@Darth_Algar He^^ has a point there. What is the difference? Not that I am voting for Trump, I would not buy a used car from the man let alone elect him to a public office
He really doesn’t. The question is about why people are bothered by Trump when someone like Buffet might do the same. The difference is that Buffet isn’t asking people to vote him into office. The difference is that Buffet isn’t bragging about this shit. That is the difference. In the arena of public perception (which, you know, is kinda important to elected office) what you say, and how you say it, can matter just as much as what you do. How you present yourself counts – this isn’t a difficult, or a new, concept.
Buffet gets tax deductions for giving to charities for good works.
Trump gets deductions for loading debt onto projects, shifting the burden to investors, not paying contractors and extracting millions for himself.
He claims no income while living in a gold plated penthouse and flying in a private jet.
He uses charitable donations for personal expenses.
If what he is doing were honest and honorable, he would release his tax returns and prove it.
@Darth_Algar When Buffet explains how he uses this charitable deduction to cancel out all his ordinary income and not a penny more all so he can avoid paying taxes at the highest effective tax rate in the IRS tax law and then crow about how he has the lowest effective tax rate in his office is not bragging? Come on now!
The true irony is how Clinton can embrace Buffet and his 10 billion dollars worth of tax write offs and she and all the other liberals get their undies in a bunch over Trumps legal use of the Federal tax codes to write off a mere 195 million. The hypocrisy here is boundless.
@Cruiser We know Trump wrote off $916 million in one year. You linked to a story that detailed it.
You need to stop parroting AM radio talking points. It makes you appear foolish. I know you’re smarter than that.
I stand corrected @Call_Me_Jay even with it being 916 mil my answer still stands and these are my own original thoughts based on my own 32 years of filing business and personal taxes complete with loss write offs and not AM hack radio’s. And if you think Trump did anything illegal here then it is you that is drinking the Kool Aid
I see, the $195M was a typo. Understood.
But stop pretending it’s about hypocrisy. Read the tweets up above. Trump was attacking others for not paying taxes. Until his non-payment was revealed, now he’s bragging about it.
Trump knows his record is shameful and his business dealings are shady, or he would release his returns like Clinton has.
He isn’t making excuses. why do you feel the need to jump in on his behalf?
@Cruiser
Show me where Buffet is running for public office then smugly gloating when his dishonesty about his taxes is called out.
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