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Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

When you are not easily influenced but some people are influencing you by their actions to vote in office someone you don’t care for, would you find that unsettling to you?

Asked by Hypocrisy_Central (26879points) October 11th, 2016

I can nothing for the party of Twiddle Dee (the Democrats) or the party of Twiddle Dumb (GOP), and I had zero interest in this election, but the more I log on here the more I feel compelled to vote Trump and not because I believe he will make a good President but if I believe he will reverse some of the nuttiness this nation has fallen into on the last three decades, I feel compelled to vote for him. He was never on my radar, and surely no one in the real put him there, can you guess who did? That fact alone I find unsettling but at this point I am to the point he is the better choice of two evils.

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20 Answers

Seek's avatar

What, specifically, do you think he will change for the better, and how, specifically, do you think he will accomplish that?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^ Means nothing when you say it, he has fooled you to believe he doesn’t exist so he by your definition can’t place trump anywhere.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I get it. Our badmouthing of Donald is proof of his qualifications for office? I agree that he’s the perfect guy to reverse the “nuttiness” in the country. He’s certainly eliminated the “nuttiness” from the GOP through the efficient technique of obliterating the party altogether. The logic in your choice is of course inescapable, and I commend you on your decision to align yourself with the man most closely aligned with your own convictions. It makes perfect sense.

JLeslie's avatar

I think if you’re not inclined to vote—don’t.

I don’t believe in voting just for the sake of voting. Do it if you really think it is the right thing to do after researching the issues and the candidates. Don’t go by what you see on one news channel, or one website. Really make an effort to watch and listen to more than one perspective.

Your vote counts, but I’d rather see a no vote than a vote that doesn’t have much information behind it. Don’t let people shame you into voting, I hate that. If you are apolitical then that’s your prerogative.

CWOTUS's avatar

I’m not going to suggest how you should vote. I try to avoid that, as a rule (a rule which I probably break pretty frequently, I suppose, but whatever), but I would suggest that you might want to pay more attention to what the candidates have said and done over time (not just a single campaign speech, for example) to be able to compare “what he/she said, vs. what he/she has done”, and “what he/she is saying now vs. what he/she has said with equal conviction fairly recently”.

Since you opened the thread, I will share an essay I posted to my FB wall recently, if you care to see it:
——
As nearly any voter in the USA can attest these days – any voter with a shred of actual thought and concern as to who will be elected as our next President, and regardless of how they plan to vote – this election is a travesty. It’s an electoral fraud without comparison in my lifetime – and I’ve never seen a “good” election yet. Nor a good president, for that matter.

Without naming names or appearing to favor one of the current major party candidates over the other, because I truly do not favor either one the least bit (and don’t particularly care much for any of the minor party candidates, either), both candidates can be aptly described as vile, despicable, incompetent, manipulative and pandering. And those are just the overlapping adjectives. There are plenty more that can be applied to either candidate, perhaps more to one than another, but again, I don’t want to appear to play favorites. Hah! As if. It doesn’t matter which one is elected; either one will be worse than the current President, and he’s no bargain – nor was his predecessor.

No, this election is going to be a disaster, and that’s just at the Presidential level. Who knows how badly it will turn out at the Congressional level, but I don’t have a lot of hope there, either. There are a few candidates – none from my state (or even my region of the country), sad to say – whom I hope will survive re-election to keep up the rear guard action they have fought for so well and gallantly against long odds to preserve a form of “small-r” republican constituational democracy alive. But whether they do or not, they’re still fighting a losing battle.

Voters keep looking around and asking (rhetorically) “How did this happen?” They look around (for someone to point the finger of blame at) and wonder “Who could have allowed things to get to this?” And “How did we manage to get the worst possible candidates to ‘represent’ us as President?”

It’s a collective failure. It’s our own damn fault, and I do not absolve myself. I certainly don’t absolve you.

It’s the fault of any and all of us who claim to want “constitutional” government – and only want to stand up for selected parts of it, or who want to assign new meanings to words, or assign whole new duties to the government to which it has no claim. A hint: “to promote the general welfare” does not mean what “Welfare” has come to mean. Another hint: There isn’t a single word in the Constitution about “the economy”; it’s not about the economy, stupid. It’s never supposed to be about the economy. (The word “job” doesn’t appear, either. It’s not about jobs, either.) It’s not even about immigration, illegal or otherwise; that word also is absent from the document. Ditto “border”. It’s the fault of all of us who vote for whatever representation seems to serve our interests of the moment, whether that’s “improved borders” or “jobs in the district” or “strong defense” (which has precious little to do with defense, and a lot more to do with increasing power for its own sake). It’s the fault of all of us who choose from time to time (or all of the time, for some) to overlook “what is allowed” by the Constitution to “what can be got away with”.

It has gotten to the point where, if one watches various Congressional hearings – or pays attention to nearly any Executive Order – the various “rules of order” in the House and Senate (or polls to the Executive) matter more than any words in the Constitution. And the Supreme Court goes along with nearly anything that can be gone along with because of judicial deference and other forms of “well, it’s been part of our history, so… that must make it okay.”

We have, each of us who has failed to insist, to complain, to demand that our representatives and government executives understand, live by and follow the Constitution, led us to this. And we’ve failed to understand the Constitution ourselves. How can we expect to hold politicians to constitutional promises if we don’t know the Constitution – at all! – ourselves? What expectation of constitutional government can we have if we cover our ears and eyes to what is right before us, every day in newspapers and on television and all over the internet and pretend that we don’t know we’re being lied to, played for fools and manipulated in every way that we can be, sometimes because it serves our interests? People who have never even been to the United States seem to understand better than our own registered voters – and elected politicians – how badly it has been violated, and how often, and for how long.

It’s time for another Revolution, I think. we shouldn’t need to fight a war, and I don’t want us to kill each other, and we certainly don’t need to reinvent government. We’ve got the framework of a good government – a minimal government, the government that too many of us, apparently, didn’t care to learn about in high school Civics classes – and it worked pretty well for a long time. I think it could still work. I’m revolted enough about our current situation to advocate publicly for the new revolution.

——
I’m also not suggesting that you shouldn’t vote at all, though. Just that you should do it with your eyes open as much as possible, and maybe that you do it with some determination to follow through and make reasonable constitutional demands upon whoever “wins” that job.

janbb's avatar

Your Christian values always intrigue me.

thorninmud's avatar

Everyone thinks that they’re not easily influenced. But what that usually means is that they’ve locked into one particular source of influence and have become very resistant to any others. The fact is that they’re very easily influenced by their trusted sources.

Those who are really good at influencing are effective precisely because they know how to make people believe that they’ve arrived at their opinions on their own, through a reasoned consideration of the merits.

For instance, how did abortion become such a rallying point for the American religious right? What were the behind-the-scenes influences?

cazzie's avatar

Being contrary doesn’t mean you are being influenced. It means you are being contrary because you lack your own thoughts or judgement. ‘If X hates Y and I hate X then I must like Y ’ is not a reasoned argument or conclusion.

JLeslie's avatar

I second what @cazzie says.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@stanleybmanly I get it. Our badmouthing of Donald is proof of his qualifications for office?
Nope, you guys badmouthing Trump doesn’t make Hilary any more qualified than he, they are both very lousy choices.

@CWOTUS [.. I would suggest that you might want to pay more attention to what the candidates have said and done over time (not just a single campaign speech, for example)..]
I have the benefit of not hearing any of the spin, for I paid neither any attention.

@janbb _ Your Christian values always intrigue me._
Oh really, how so?

@cazzie It means you are being contrary because you lack your own thoughts or judgement. ‘If X hates Y and I hate X then I must like Y ’ is not a reasoned argument or conclusion.
<Big swing……..and a miss> That would only work if I liked Trump for some reason like someone I did not like, liked Hilary. I do not like Hilary more than Trump or vice versa, it comes down to which skunk smells the least and can do something to right a ship that is listing more than making take on more water.

cazzie's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central That went right over your head. At least I know my vote will cancel out yours. (but not really because of the stupid electoral college, but I’ll still feel good about it.)

Seek's avatar

If you haven’t paid any attention, how can you possibly know how the skunks smell?

cazzie's avatar

@Seek Crazies are now saying that ‘god’ put Trump in the place as the nominee and morons are eating it up like a fly eats shit.

Seek's avatar

You know, biblically, the people “god” put in charge did really fantastically bad jobs.

cazzie's avatar

Often because people who hear voices telling them to do things are crazy.

CWOTUS's avatar

Well, “disembodied” voices, anyway, @cazzie.

cazzie's avatar

and burning bushes. Disembodied voices and burning bushes.

janbb's avatar

You talkin’ to me?

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