Should I continue to let the ill, elderly guy bow hunt on my property?

This might become a self-regulating, non-issue. Last year his aunt told me he probably would not make it another season. Yet, he showed up here at 6:00 AM today. The crossbow (150 pound draw) is already cocked.

Yes, I DO understand your concerns and you shouldn’t be dragged into this. However, let him continue. His time is up and there isn’t much else left for him in life.

I would let him continue since you are ok with the hunting part. It sounds like this will be the last season. If he does die on your property which would be awful, the main thing you’ll have to do is call the paramedics or the police.

I would let him continue. Does he talk to you about his illness?

You’re a good guy to have let him go on for so long, and to have had these concerns, not to mention your active assistance in his endeavor. About the only way that you could be more supportive of him would be … to offer him some of your liver. I’m not advocating that.

I guess that my primary question would be – since you must have already added up the risks that he faces in his weakened condition, plus the weather and other conditions of the hunting season – how much effort and attention does this cost you, personally, on an hour-by-hour basis? It’s one thing to grant permission to have the hunt, since that takes no great attention, and cocking the crossbow is a one-time, here-you-go kind of thing – minimal time and effort again. But as you have already stated, gutting and dragging the deer out takes a pretty considerable commitment on your part (and kudos to you for making that part of your life, especially since you indicate that it doesn’t appeal to you much), but still that’s a thing that you can do when notified that “it’s time”. You don’t have to be looking out for the event, wondering / worrying about it. It takes no particular toll of your psyche except when “it’s time to do the deed”.

But now we’re talking about “taking care of the old man”, and looking out for him, possibly hour-by-hour, maybe even having to track him in case he has a physical failing and then even rescue him (since I’m sure that you wouldn’t simply abandon him while you go to call for help) – and most of all, feeling guilty if something does happen to him in the orchard that could have been prevented (or at least not have occurred at that place) if you had simply said, “No.”

Even apart from that, how likely might it be that he, having come to the same realization that you and others have about his health and pending mortality, might decide to call his own final shot and end his life right there? (And if he did it after you had said “No” to him, then I would imagine that you’d feel even worse. I know that I would.)

Since you’re not a personal friend of his (I sense), would it be an unreasonable compromise that you ask that he be accompanied by someone who can at least look after his well-being while he’s on your property, and then call you if assistance is required? After all, it shouldn’t be your responsibility to be a caretaker on top of everything else that you’re doing for him, but if anything happened to him or anyone else in the woods I have no doubt that you’d drop everything and join in the rescue effort, regardless of whether it was “your woods” or anyone else’s, and regardless of who the person was. At least him having a companion in the woods would relieve your attention on him until “something needs to be done”, whether it’s to gut and drag a deer … or to rescue or recover him.

Whew! He left about 15 minutes ago. He came inside to use the bathroom and told me he saw “the big buck that has been making the big scraping at the west side of the orchard” (as if I was aware of said buck or scraping). “He was probably 50 yards away. Out of range.” I did not ask any questions or mention my concern. .
I walked him to his car and when I came back inside I noticed the crossbow is hanging on the wall in my garage. Maybe he is storing it there for use another day or he is hanging it up I will just leavie it and see what happens.

Could you find another hunter who could use his tag and get his deer for him?

Of course this is too easy to say typing from afar, but I’d be ok with him dying on my watch. Not many of us will get to go while outside enjoying nature.

Kudos to you for your generosity, you have gone the extra mile for this guy.

@Cruiser Two other guys hunt here. They are young, fit and hunt from tree stands. They are totally independent. They come and go without any intervention required on my part. We have an arrangement where each guy has a different colored bandanna and ties it to a pillar near my garage. When they hunt they show up at 4:30 am, get set up, and they’re done in a morning.
I have no doubt they would do it for him. But they’re not here all the time, and I know the experience gives him a lot of enjoyment.

@CWOTUS He has come here with his niece’s daughter. But she is a little older now and does not have the same enthusiasm for sitting in a deer blind for hours with her sick uncle. When she was 13 it was cool. I really don’t know how many friends he’s got.
You bring up a good point about the potential for him ending it here. It would be easy to do with that crossbow. Ugh! Thanks a lot pal! One more thing for me to worry about!!!

The season will be over in a few weeks. I think ‘ll just leave things as they are and let nature take its course.

By ill, in the title, at first I thought he may have been mentally ill or senile, in which case I would not want some madman in my yard shooting shit. But this is not the case. He’s physically fucked but his head is all there. I say keep letting him do what he does if you’re fine with it, which you seem to be. You’re not his doctor, there is very little you can do for him, besides the assistance you lend, which is more than many would do. If he enjoys this, might as well let him have it since he’s probably going to die soon.

Let it go—unless YOU or anyone on your property is in danger of being shot.

You could get a lawyer to draft a waiver for him to sign, removing you of any responsibility should he die on your land…

@Berserker As you figured, I meant physically ill. He has some type of degenerative liver disease.
If his head wasn’t right there’d be no way I’d allow him on my property or provide weaponry assistance. The new generation of crossbows are fearsome weapons. They fire an arrow (called a bolt) with such speed and so much energy it passed completely through the deer. The arrow head is razor sharp and cuts blood vessels and internal organs as it travels through. Often the deer does not even recognize it has been hit. It stands there and looks around for the sound. Then it walks off. Eventually it gets light headed and lays down.
I would not be surprised if that crossbow could shoot a bolt through the outside walls of my house. Anyone carrying one needs to have their head on straight. And he still does – I think.

@MrGrimm888 Good advice and that is probably the right thing to do but it would be almost insulting to him.
I’m just going to leave it alone and let things ride and take my chances. I will stay home when he is here. If I see his bandanna still tied to the garage pillar after about 4 hours I’ll dress in orange and go out looking for him.

I can’t imagine there would be much paperwork involved if he does pass on your land, whether by nature or by his own design. He has a well-documented terminal illness. No one will blame you.

I just read your most recent post, but I was going to ask you about your legal liability should he have had an accident and hurt himself or someone else. Could you be held legally responsible since you are aware of his incapacity?

3:43PM He just came back!!! It’s painful to watch him slowly trudge out there. Today is a gorgeous day: sunshine, clear, with temps in the in the high 50sF, 15–20C. Perfect for him. Maybe this will be the last warm day of the season.
Oh well. I wasn’t planning on going anywhere.

I really don’t know about my liability. I have liability insurance of some sort on my homeowner’s policy. I’m not going to worry about that.

Let the old guy be. Let him have some fun.

I’m thinking that the hunting is keeping him going. It’s perhaps something that he loves doing. It might be very therapeutic for him and makes him feel alive and or want to continue to live. Perhaps his continued hunting will bring enough joy into his life to spur his immune system into action and he will beat the cancer. Such miracles are known to happened.

If you’re allowing people to go out on your property to do things that might cause them to be injured, your liability coverage may be voided/ cancelled ab initio. Read that policy very carefully. In some cases, the liability coverage only applies if you’ve done everything possible to prevent people getting onto your property/become injured.

I would recommend contracts of some sort with anyone you allow to use your property. Particularly if you’re in the US.

Do you have contact info for the other hunters? I would call them and outright as them to help.

@BellaB I honestly don’t know of anyone who even considers this issue – hunters nor landowners.

@JLeslie I do have contact info for the other hunters. I’ll mention it when I see them although I’m guessing they know already. They are rarely around when he is hunting. Over the years all three have met here so they sort of know each other.

Unfortunately, while I don’t like to consider what @BellaB has said, I think you probably should.

Let’s say that the old man – or any hunter whom you allow to be on the property – is injured and requires expensive medical care. Let’s further assume that the cost of the care is not going to be fully covered by that person’s own medical insurance. Someone will need to be paid for the cost of the care, and they will be looking for someone to pay. You (or your insurer) would be collected in the net of “who can we get to pay this bill?”

So even assuming that the old man (or whoever) is friendly and would never dream – on his own – of suing you for an injury that may even be 100% his own fault, and nothing to do with you or any fault or condition of your property, no negligence or bad act on your part, his own insurer or medical care provider may come looking to you for compensation, if only because “you’re involved”.

I would put in a call to the homeowner’s insurance agent if I were you, just to ask, “Hey, am I covered in case …?” and “Are there any things that I should be doing to limit my liability in case …” I suspect that this is one of the prime reasons why so much rural property is posted “No Trespassing. No Hunting.” these days. It’s not that the landowners hate hikers and hunters so much as having learned from some bitter experience that they have to at least appear to want to keep people out.

@LuckyGuy ,most country property owners I know are aware of this concern and take care to sign their properties appropriately. Bankruptcy as a result of cancelled insurance and lawsuits are a real concern.

^^ That’s why I asked you about your legal liability @Lucky. While you are being kind, you live in a litigious society and should something happen to a hunter while on your property, their family could hold you legally responsible. Especially if some lawyer gets involved. They might not plan to now, but with medical bills or just the possibility of profit, people can see $$$ and you could be at risk.

@LuckyGuy is such a careful, thorough guy. I think we can trust his assessment of the country culture where he lives and that is not the risk he is expressing concern about.

@janbb, it’s precisely because he lives in such a community that I mentioned it. The ‘people here would never do that’ idea isn’t much help when one of those people does decide they need to take you to court.

If this man accidently shot someone while on @Lucky’s property (even if the person shouldn’t have been there), or he injured himself, @Lucky could be considered liable. The country people who I’m sure are lovely might not want to sue, but if they have mounting legal bills and a lawyer saying ‘he should pay for letting that man carry a crossbow’, will they really just say no? You can’t guarantee that. That’s why it’s better to err on the side of caution and make sure you’re covered.

I wouldn’t worry about putting up signs. If you do I guess it could say “trespass at your own risk” rather than “no trespassing.” I can’t see any of those hunters suing if they get hurt, but it’s true you never know. Some people feel nothing when it comes to getting money out of an insurance company.

Hunting is so common here. I live across the street from a wildlife management area so there are all kinds of hunters during the various seasons.
I do not know of anyone who has had any legal problem whatsoever. I know of one injury in our area, next to my property in fact. About 10 years ago a 20 something bow hunter in great shape was seriously injured. He got a deer and rather than gut it in the woods decided to take it home and do it there where he could hose off and get cleaned up easily. He carried his 100–150 pound deer (with the arrow still sticking out) to his truck and flopped it into the truck bed. Unfortunately, the tail end of the arrow hit the truck bed and pushed the arrow head into the guy’s abdomen hitting his liver!!! Hunting arrows have barbs so they can’t be pulled out. He carried the deer with the arrow inside the deer and his gut, to the neighbor’s house about 600 ft away and called for help. We heard the ambulances through the woods but did not know what was happening and ignored the commotion.
He recovered fully. And nobody was sued.

^^Wow. I can’t believe how strong that guy is. Luckily, the liver is an organ that can regenerate if it’s not damaged in some sort of fatal way.

I think the hunters treat the property like open land and aren’t really thinking about the survey maps and ownership.

In my case all three hunters are using blinds or tree stands. They each know where the other guys’ stands are located and they are sufficiently far apart that they cannot hit each other with an errant shot. From their stands they can’t see each other.
If they have to find a wounded deer they will put on something orange (they usually wear heavy camo) so they are visible.
Every property owner here will give a hunter a free pass if they need to trespass to find their deer. And I do mean, Every! In fact they will gladly help try to find it. The neighbor to the south (The guy who injured himself did it on his property) will ride out on his 4-wheeler and help look. They will also help look for lost arrows.
Inside the tail end of the arrow, the nock, there is a small light, battery and switch. The nock light turns on when the arrow passes over a magnet attached to the frame of the bow or cross bow. You can’t see them during the day but at night they blink like a bright, red firefly. If you can’t find your arrow during the day you come back at night and look in the dark of the woods. They really stand out. Any property owner around here will gladly go out and look for you. Good hunting arrows are $25 – $30 a piece and they have razor sharp points that can damage tires or injure people. You really don’t want to leave any behind. .

@LuckyGuy Everything you describe is why I think the other hunters will gladly help the guy who is likely on his last season of hunting.

Is there established law protecting landowners from liability when hunters use their land?

It seems like the question would be an ancient one, and the law would be settled a long time ago.

There are many lawsuits (and insurance claims) between hunters/landowners/municipalities in the US and Canada every year. I’ve sat in on more than a few insurance committees where decisions were being made about whether coverage (including response to litigation) would be provided to the landowner or if the policy would be cancelled ab initio.

Update:
He is hunting again today, and was here yesterday as well.
Funny story. As stated before, we don’t lock our doors. We were up about 6 AM (well before sunrise.) and had just walked into the kitchen. Suddenly this voice from the family room loudly said: “Don’t Shoot! Don’t Shoot!”
He had showed up without notifying me and while in his hunting blind had a terrible need to use the bathroom so he came into the house to use the half bathroom near the garage.
No doubt, the scare helped his bowel movement. :-)

He left a little while ago, empty handed. But I noticed his crossbow was still cocked. It is a 150 pound pull and takes a lot off effort to draw back all the way. I didn’t cock it for him. Either someone else did it for him or he did it himself. I hope it is the latter.

LOLL!!! I mean, your post above the one above me!! Your household just sounds like mine. Never know who’s gonna walk in, or why, but whoever they are, they’re welcome! LOL!

@Dutchess_III Yep. Things are pretty casual around here.

I want to live where @LuckyGuy lives (in the summertime). Friendly neighbors, no locks, I love it.

He is here again! (Dec. 13) I heard him come in to the house and use the bathroom this morning. It is just below freezing out!
I figure he might be considering this his last year and he wants to get something. I wish I could help him. :-(

He just left, empty handed, after sitting out there for 4 hours. I could see deer from my kitchen window, out of range and out of sight from his hunting blind at the edge of the orchard. There are so many deer tracks and pee patches in the snow near his blind it has to drive him crazy. The last time he was here I lent him a thermal imager that highlighted any warm-blooded animals in the area. He thought it was interesting but not useful since it showed deer deep in the woods out of range and he can see deer with his eyes if they are in range. Good point. It would be really useful for tracking but he cannot walk far in the snow.
Anyway I really want him to get something. His clock is ticking and I feel for him. I can’t imagine how he must feel.

Awww. I feel kind of bad for the guy. He sounds lonely.

You are correct. He is lonely. He never married. Has no kids. Has an ailing mother who is in her 90s. And he has a liver disease and was rejected as a candidate for a transplant
Life is not great for this guy.

^^Oh man. And, his mom is losing a son. Really sad. That happens too often to parents who live very long lives. :(

HE GOT ONE!!! 12/14, About 4PM , 24F, Snowing hard. I estimate it to be about 150 pounds.
I helped him do what needed to be done. We loaded it into a wheelbarrow and then loaded it into his car. He left at 5;30 pm.
I took lots of pictures for him. He is a happy man.

Good for him. Glad you could help him.

@LuckyGuy Good for him and good for you!

@LuckyGuy That counts as a mitzvah for you.

I don’t remember if you said he just does one per season? Or, will he be trying again this winter?

Good job! I was looking at stats for states where I have a little familiarity, and lots of people go home empty-handed.

Michigan 2015
607,113 hunters took 335,000 deer

And specifically the crossbow rate was much lower.
185,632 crossbow hunters took 65,988 deer

He said this one is enough to last him a year so I doubt he will be back. The season ends on one week.
Odds are pretty good this is his last season. That seems sad. But at least it is a good way to end it.

@LuckyGuy: Does he look yellow?

Actually he looks gray and straggly. He has not cut his hair in probably a year.

This counts as a BAR Mitzvah for you, and him! Bring him in for some Baily’s and hot chocolate! And a hair cut.

You are so awesome, @LuckyGuy. I wish the whole world was full of people like you. I never dreamed I’d be happy about someone killing a little deah…

^^Just mitzvah. Bar mitzvah is when you come of age.

Well, he deserves a drink. Hence the BAR.

Oh. Lol.

Thanks! I got the joke. :-)
Actually a hot spiced cider would be perfect.

And a blazing fire in the fireplace.

I was driving to work yesterday, at 7 a.m., and I glanced down at the small temperature display on the “dash.” It’s been, you know, 24, 28, 34, 38, 17, 38, up and down. This time I went, “40 degrees??”
So I slipped my glasses down for to read it better, (because it was in that range) and said, “Oh. 4. Yeah.”
And by the time I got to work, 20 minutes later, it was 2. 2 degrees.

Update… March 24 2017

I was walking in my back woods, surveying the tree damage from the wind storm two weeks ago. The snow has started to melt so about half the ground was uncovered. At the edge of the clearing I found an intact arrow flat on the ground with the razor sharp broad head ready to cut anything that happened to step on it, Yikes!
He told me he lost one but couldn’t find it. Fortunately, I did, without incident.

Update… August 27, 2017
UNBELIEVABLE!!! The guy just came to my door, (looking like a healthy skeleton), and asked for the crossbow! I asked how he was doing and he said “Well, I’m alive.”
He plans to hunt again and wants to practice with the crossbow.
He is going to hunt with a grandnephew who just got his license so he won’t be by himself.
WHEW! I am so relieved.

Wow.

Update Nov 4 2017

The guy has been hunting here ALONE for the past 4 days.
Well, today he got a 100–120 pound doe!
He was thrilled. That’s enough meat to last him for a good part of the year. Wow.
He also said “I’m getting too old for this.”

Another wow.

Update Nov 1 2018
He came over last month and set up a very nice, new hunting blind. Roomy!
He is still hunting alone. The other day I saw him carrying a recovered crossbow bolt that had the nock light on – meaning he shot and either missed or the arrow went through. (He missed.)
I find it incredible that he’s still here. So does he!
The fresh air and exercise must be good for him.

Wow. I love these updates.