Is cleaning a learned behavior?

Too busy and I guess she has too many sticky hands around and may have given up. I think with some people it is in their nature and with others it has to be learned. And neat doesn’t mean clean. My son is very neat, but don’t expect him to dust or wipe down or clean the bathroom or clean out the sink once he washes dishes. Or to clean them very well.
Both of my kids can wash clothes but God forbid they bother to fold.
It just makes sense to some people. I’m like you. The little things are just as bothersome to me because in time they pile up and no matter how much you clean the house, collectively they make the home appear dirty. Which is worse than messy.
I rather see a messy home with clean items than a dirty home with no mess.

When I went house hunting I saw a home for sale that didn’t have much furniture or things about. It was pretty mess free. But the hair on the floor, the grease (or some unknown sticky stuff) on the stairway railing, the grime in the tub and mold growing in the shower, and water stains on the counters, and the 3 years of grease on the stove top and kitchen walls, was enough to turn me away immediately. I didn’t even bother to look in the stove. The glass sliding door was dull with grime on it. I was afraid to touch anything. You just knew it was going to stick and the house was just one match away from going up in flames in seconds. All the door knobs and doors and walls were dirty. I did find their mess in the master bedroom.
When we opened the door to the walk in closet, you could see where they hastily threw everything in the closet floor.
My realtor took a step back when she saw it. That’s bad when a realtor seems shocked as well.
It wasn’t the only reason for me turning down the home. It looked structurally unsound. But I wouldn’t have taken it even it it wasn’t because I know I would’ve had to paid someone a lot of money to get all those years of grease and dirt off the wall before I could even paint it and goodness knows how much mold was growing behind in the walls. It would’ve been risky to buy a moldy home. Oh, I forgot. Mold around the windows as well. Nope. Couldn’t do it.
My point is people don’t realize it the little things that slowly creep up and become big things.

I rather see a messy home with clean items than a dirty home with no mess Well said! I agree.

And yeah. They creep up. So I slowly uncreep stuff when I’m there, and hope she doesn’t really notice. I’m afraid she’d take offense.

Like you said -no time means triage. I believe however that your reaction differs from my own. The 9 year old for example should have had that soapy rag thrust into his hands and been marched off to clean every light switch he can reach.

I’m pretty sure he just said exactly what his mother would have said. And he would have told her what I did and there is NO telling what she’d make of that.
However I do make him clean his room, which no one else seems to do. I told my son that the kid needs a dirty clothes hamper or basket.

@Dutchess_III What are these “household chores that you think your son shouldn’t have to do”?

I don’t think so or rather while cleanliness and order can be taught to an individual the decision to be neat and tidy has to be chosen.

I know both my kids were raised in a household where messes had to be cleaned up immediately and toys and such put away once you were through them. They both had chores that had to be done from a young age; were taught to sweep, dust, vacuum, scrub sinks, tubs and toilets, help with food preparation and setting the table; all the things necessary to clean and maintain a home. And yet, if you were to go to either of their homes now you would think they were raised by honey badgers; very messy, disorganized, pig pen inspired honey badgers.
So I know they know how to do it but cleaning and home maintenance is just not high on their priorities list.

It’s definitely not instinctive. Not for me anyway.

Females seem to have a built-in desire for cleanliness, and order.

Men seem less concerned about it.

@MrGrimm888 or as Dave Barry put it ”.... men—because of a tragic genetic flaw—cannot see dirt until there is enough of it to support agriculture”.

@anniereborn He works full time. His wife is a stay at home Mom. She should be responsible for most of the house hold chores, IMO. If he wants to pitch in (and he will, because that’s the kind of man he is) then great. But for him to have to come home from a physically exhausting day, and clean the bathroom and do the dishes and clean the kitchen and fold the clothes everyday because she just didn’t do it just doesn’t seem right to me. But he does it, and I know he rarely, if ever, says anything about it.

@MrGrimm888 In this case my son is more concerned about the messes. But he’s chill enough to not make a big deal about it. He just turns around and does whatever needs to be done.

@Dutchess_III HE works full time and she doesn’t? You are kidding me, right? There are three kids, two that are under five and she doesn’t work full time?

With three children, two being under five years of age, I’ll guarantee you she works a harder job than he does.

People,back off. You’re making an assumption that is so far out in left field. I was a full time, stay at home Mom for 5 years. I know what is entailed, and I know that it’s work. I, personally, had to deal with people who assumed that what I did was a piece of cake, or that I just didn’t have the brains to get a “real” job.

My point is, she DOES HAVE a job, and she should do it. She doesn’t have to go in and cover for stuff at his work that he just doesn’t bother to get done, why should he have to cover stuff in her job? Why should he have to come home and clean a bathroom that hasn’t been cleaned in a month, or dust furniture that hasn’t been dusted in months? Or mop a floor? Or clean a toilet? Or wash 3 days worth of dishes?

Before you get even more het up, this does not include stuff that needs to be done while they’re both there. I’ve always been impressed at how there is no division of duties, whatsoever, when it comes to the kids and they’re both home. What ever needs to be done, one of them steps up and does it. I’m talking about the division of household chores. A logical division based on their individual jobs.

Householding isn’t a job. There are plenty of folks out there who work their ass off and still have to come home and clean the toilet after putting in a 8-hour shift. They don’t have spouses they can assign it too, but it still has to be done. If she’s too exhausted from raising his children (and cooking his meals, and vacuuming the floors and all the other big stuff), and he feels he shouldn’t have to clean a toilet or polish a table* then perhaps he should hire a housekeeper to come in once or twice a week to do the small stuff.

(*Although, it doesn’t sound like he feels that way, but rather that you feel that way. I dunno, maybe he has his own ideas of how his household should operate.)

My old roommate stopped by for a drink last night. When I went to sleep she was still in the house with my other roommates.

When I woke up the next morning she had cleaned the bathroom we used to share. Scrubbed the toilet and all!

Some people are definitely cleaner than others.

@Darth_Algar So if I cleaned houses for a living it wouldn’t be a job? Care to explain that to me? You’re the kind of person @anniereborn needs to be settin’ down and having a talk with. It IS a job. And with kids, it’s that much harder.

She only has two kids there, the 18 month old and the 3 year old. The oldest, who is 9, is in school all day, until just before Dad gets home, and the other is with her bio Mom Sunday through Wednesday, then she has school on Thursday and Friday and dad either brings here here, or takes her to work with him.

I can not even believe you just preached to me about those poor people who come home after working their ass off all day and have to clean house too. Oh, and you forgot yard work and repairs around the house too, which they have to do by themselves. For me it was yardwork on Saturday, and deep cleaning for the week on Sunday. Then 8 – 5 at a ”real” job M-F.

It sounds to me like @Dutchess_III‘s DIL is overwhelmed with little kids in the house. I think I would be, too.

When my daughter was a toddler, I used to say “I go to work to rest.” Not that I got to rest at work, but it was easier than chasing after and picking up after a toddler, along with the meals, diapers, etc.

For the DIL, having an 18 month old and a 3 year old is a lot. For some people, it may not be, for others, it may be. For me, one was a lot, I think I’d not be able to handle two.

That the hubby comes home after working all day and then pitches in to clean up is great. He seems to understand that his wife has a lot on her plate. Maybe by the time he gets home she just wants a break. It’s easy to second guess what other people do but if it works for them then that’s great for them.

@Dutchess_III

Wow. I’m not sure that you could have misread that and missed the point by any wider of a margin.

He does more than “pitch in,” @jca. He does most of the house work, after work and on weekends. I’m just wondering if my DIL just doesn’t think it’s important, or, perhaps, just doesn’t know how to clean. Her son saying to me “That’s crazy! No one cleans light switches!” kind of took me aback.

OK, @Darth_Algar. Then ‘splain it to me. Explain what you meant by “Householding isn’t a job”

@Dutchess_III: OK. That he comes home after working all day and does most of the housework is a great thing. To me, it shows he doesn’t feel the line is black and white (she does the house work, he works out of the house)

First, a lot of you guys are acting like I have no clue what it’s like to be a stay at home mom, watching multiple preschoolers. I do. And I felt then that since I am home all day, the responsibility for keeping the house clean was my job. It’s not something I particularly enjoyed, but I did the best I could do, like I would any job.

Some of you also seem to assume I have no clue what it’s like to be a single mother, responsible for not only supporting the kids, but for keeping the house clean and doing all the yard work and everything else. Wrong again.

I even had a daycare for 3 years. I had SIX preschoolers every day, 5 days a week. I STILL kept the house clean.

Now when it’s both of them together, I am so impressed with the absolute absence of any kind of division when it comes to the kids. My son has expressed frustrations more than once that around here there are no diaper changing stations in the men’s restroom.

@jca, I just don’t think it’s a fair division of labor. She has the time to keep the house clean, she just doesn’t do it. Yes, she DOES have the time. When I watch them, I have the time to clean. Maybe she just doesn’t know how.

@Dutchess_III: I have an example from a good friend of mine. She was a stay at home mom, kept the house spotless, never bought a loaf of bread because she baked bread and all other kinds of things – she was so impressive. She sewed clothes and quilts and all kinds of stuff. In order to survive around here (high cost of living area) with only one income (her husband’s), this is what she had to do. She used to say it was very hard but she did it as that was the deal she had with her hubby. Her brother married a woman who was a school teacher, making a huge salary (around here, school teachers make about 100k and more after a couple of years). My friend expressed resentment that the schoolteacher wife of her brother did not cook and probably didn’t clean either. I said “if Patrick doesn’t mind it, then why should you mind it?”

For you, with your son, I’d view it as it’s between him and his wife. If the wife doesn’t clean and he does, who cares? If it bothers him enough, he’ll say something. If it bothers him and he doesn’t say something, it’s on him. Maybe they’ve discussed it and you’re not privy to the conversation.

I think it’s mostly learned. My parents were not very near and clean. When I was little our apartment was fairly straight with almost everything put away, but I don’t think my mom every took the knobs off the stove to clean them. As I got older they became messier and less clean. As I got older I became more aware of how clean the houses were of friends of mine. Clean and straight. I envied them, and was embarrassed by my home. I started taking it upon myself to clean up sometimes. My boyfriend when I was a teenager knew how to clean and I learned some things from him. I also sought out information myself or learned from trial and error.

As an adult, at one point, I hired a professional organizer to help me with my home office. It was eye opening.

I really appreciate a clean home, but I can live in a mess too up to a point. I still don’t want people to catch me with a sink full of dishes though.

I prefer to clean than put things away. Clean the bathroom, kitchen, vacuum, all of with me, but I will put off putting away laundry, bringing my shoes to the closet, and having to tidy the junk drawer for days and weeks.

I think your right that it might not matter as much to her. I also think she is probably prioritizing what she feels is most important.

I have a few friends with adult children who were fairly OCD about keeping a clean home when their children were little and they regret it. I’m talking about an extreme though.

As a result of my messy upbringing I don’t like to buy things. I don’t want clutter and don’t want to find a place for things I don’t need. I keep telling people and facebook to please don’t buy me anything for my house. I love my sentimental things, but im not good at finding places and putting things away and I’m tired of packing it all up when I move. I try to throw stuff out as much as I can, but it is a little hard for me with some items. Partly for emotional reasons, and partly for money reasons.

My sister has become the extreme the other way. It happened in her 30’s from what I can tell. Not she is rather obsessed with her apartment being neat and clean. I feel it is a direct reaction against how much she hates our parents for keeping a messy household, especially my father.

In summation, I think it’s learned and also tied up psychologically in many different ways just like how people save and spend money.

He hasn’t really said anything @jca, but I know he isn’t very happy with it. I don’t know if he’s ever said anything to her.

Gosh, I went to the bathroom and the toilet bowl was utterly filthy. It looked like it hadn’t been cleaned since they bought the house, over 2 years ago. I started looking for a toilet brush to see it it would come off….and they did not have one. It probably HASN’T been cleaned since they bought the house. I know it wasn’t that way when they moved in, because I would have noticed it.
I finally said to my son, “Is that just hard water stains in the toilet?” He said it was. Then he started looking for some chemicals that would remove it. It took several rounds (and the purchase of a toilet brush) to finally get it clean. But it probably won’t stay that way, unless my son does it.

@JLeslie Good post. Yeah, I quit buying things for my house. When we go to auction Rick will look at this piece of furniture or that, and I’ll say, “OK. What are we going to get rid of if we buy that?” I also warn him that if he buys something that we have no place for it will end up in his small home office. Well, the home office has a bathroom off of it, and that bathroom is just packed with useless shit. He refuses to get rid of it so we can actually have a second bathroom we can use.

@DutchessIII: Maybe he’s not thrilled but he realized this is the way it’s got to be for now.

Yeah. Sucks. IMO.

It’s between the married couple, they need to sort it out. Maybe if they clean together for an hour every two weeks it will be something they do together and the majority of the deep cleaning stuff will get done quickly. Making it a one person lonely chore sometimes makes it suck more.

The best would be if they could hire someone to do it. If they have the money they should consider it in my opinion. Everything gets done top to bottom in one fell swoop. They can tidy areas of the house even as the cleaning people are cleaning. Even if it’s just once a month.

They don’t have the money. I guess he’s just going to keep doing it. It’s just that some of the stuff is SO dirty. They haven’t been wiped clean in years, if ever.

@Dutchess_III If it’s years then it’s his fault too. Do you want to do it? It sounds like you already are little by little. You risk her being either very upset and embarrassed, or very grateful. If she doesn’t seem to mind and it bothers you, or you just want to help, just keep doing a little project when you are there.

Did you teach your son how to clean? Maybe I missed that.

I would bud out of it unless you want to risk pissing her off and causing a rift. If he tolerates it then all is well.

I am only curious about why she doesn’t really clean. She’s a hard worker, otherwise. Other than that, things are split pretty evenly.

@JLeslie Oh, yes. I taught my son, all my kids, how to clean. I did mention above that my son is a bit anal about neatness. I never had to tell him to clean his room. It just was always clean.