If Trump manages to appoint justices to the SCOTUS who eliminates Roe v Wade, what will women do then?

Of course it’s possible.

The smartest will do it in Canada or Europe. Air travel is pretty cheap these days. Others will abandon their baby or get saddled with an unwanted kid.

Women won’t be any more chaste than they were before Roe v. Wade as this is the way of the weaker sex when she breaks from the moral authority of Man as it was handed down by God through Adam. But there won’t be any unwanted children. Christians of America will unite in a righteous movement to provide good, Christian homes and upbringing for every child born out of wedlock.

Then, after America outlaws homosexuality, God will reward this great country by removing the scourge of AIDs which was his punishment cast upon us for passing Roe v. Wade and it’s evil legalization of sexual deviancy.

It won’t happen
Anymore than Prohibition will return
And even in the fairy tail that it did happen it would become a state issue as directed by the tenth amendment.

Back ally “coat hanger” abortions will go through the roof. So will deaths of mothers and fetuses.

Little would change. Women seeking abortions would merely make the trip from the more backward and destitute places in the country to more “enlightened” destinations, much as they do today.

Women that can afford the trip, that is. The rest will be forced to have the baby. Social service programs, probably next out the window.

Yes once again another measure penalizing ONLY the poor. It’s over HC. Like gay bashing and segregated lunch counters, @josie got it right. “you can’t go home again”

Die. They will die. And so will their fetuses.

Lots of desperate women making desperate decisions, with little or no guidance.

Without planned parenthood, which focuses mainly on contraception, we will have abandoned our nation’s daughters, when they need us the most.

What a pathetic country this is becoming that this is even remotely possible.

California will make it legal. But the poor women who are in states that make it illegal will suffer and die.

I just don’t see Roe v Wade ever being overturned. If it happens it will not be good for anyone regardless if it is something they want or not.

@ARE_you_kidding_me: You don’t think with pro-life Supreme Court justices like Trump is saying he will appoint, they’ll overturn Roe v. Wade?

Nope, I just don’t see it.

^As with many of Trump’s promises, they are difficult to implement. But this one has a chance. “I just don’t see it” isn’t a phrase anyone should declare after Trump winning, and our obstructionist congress getting reelected….

@ARE_you_kidding_me: Can you explain how you don’t see it? If it comes to a vote and the majority wins (the majority being the Supreme Court justices), how would it not happen?

Do tell, @Hypocrisy_Central, what do you think women will do? Become the chaste, eyes-downcast maidens you feel women should be? Be physically punished or killed by back-alley abortions for behaving like humans? Why on earth do you think condom sales would go up? men wear the condoms. If they don’t want to, do you really think they will?
Your naïveté really knows no bounds.

I don’t see a majority vote there even if Trump manages to install a couple pro-lifers

Rises in back alley abortions, like what always happens in backwards countries that don’t provide safe ones.

Rich women will get safe abortions and poor women will get butchered. Yay for progress!

Trump has said – whether he believes it will happen or not – that if Roe v. Wade is overturned, abortion rights will be decided state by state. My answer above still stands.

@josie
“It won’t happen.”
Anymore than Trump could become president. Oh! Oh. oooh…....

“Will the next generation of women be chaste more than now, will condom and IUD sales go through the roof, will women who don’t want to be mothers seek to fly to nations where they can still kill off their unborn”

Oh, fuck off.

^^For once we agree

Everyone has the answer to this question. It’s just what happened before Roe v. Wade. Crack a history book, would ya?

If one can’t have safe, legal abortions, one will have unsafe, illegal abortions.

Become responsible.

@MrGrimm888 Without planned parenthood, which focuses mainly on contraception, we will have abandoned our nation’s daughters, when they need us the most.
If the likelihood this nation jettisons Roe v Wade why do you think Planned Parenthood will go away, they will just have to clean up their act. They can still pass out condoms so our nation’s young women can sneak pass their parents and boink around, they might still have access to the Morning After pill they can encourage girls to pop like all day mints, but they will still be around, no hope to eliminating them.

@ARE_you_kidding_me If it happens it will not be good for anyone…]
False statement, it would be good for a lot of people, just not all of them.

@canidmajor Why on earth do you think condom sales would go up? men wear the condoms. If they don’t want to, do you really think they will?
Men are controlled by their ”dumbsticks” (aka penises), if it means getting it services by a female they have to put on the rubber because she is not going to get on her back otherwise, they will either do it, or find some woman, as there usually is, that don’t care to be the gatekeeper to her own womb because maybe she is in too much heat to have him wear it or BOB (Battery Operated Boyfriend) was out of power. You don’t know men as well as you think.

@Mariah [..like what always happens in backwards countries that don’t provide safe ones.
I did not know a nation has to allow killing its unborn to be forward….go figure…

@kritiper If one can’t have safe, legal abortions, one will have unsafe, illegal abortions.
Maybe women will get wise and not have them…..maybe that.

@Hypocrisy_Central . You mentioned the morning after pill. Is that not a form of abortion to you?

When does it go from not a life,to a life?

I would think you would oppose the morning after pill.

Trying to stay on thread here…

Plan B does not abort a pregnancy. It only prevents ovulation. If you have already ovulated Plan B is of absolutely no use to you.

The morning after pill is categorically not an abortion.

^ @Seek . Thank you. But I’m trying to get HC’s opinion of when it becomes a life. To some, it starts at conception.

I’m interested in his opinion.

^ You mentioned the morning after pill. Is that not a form of abortion to you?
When does it go from not a life,to a life?
I might be wrong, but IF it worked as I believe it does, that if taken it blocks the egg from anchoring in the lining of the uterus. If that be the case, just because the egg is fertilized there is no chance of life until it is attached and established in the womb, otherwise it will just be voided from the body.

I’m interested in his opinion
Some are so bitter about where their life has gone they don’t care about opinion to the point they overrun the so-called innate ”golden rule” leaning to spew hate and malice as they say is not natural in the hearts of man. What does that show by the fruits of evidence?

How do you counter the argument that proponents of overturning Roe v Wade are insisting that the government should compel women to bear children?

^ How do you counter the argument that proponents of overturning Roe v Wade are insisting that the government should compel women to bear children?
To some it might be, the same as some would see the government barring their right to use the free market system to sell a kidney to the highest bidder, it will not suit everyone.

@Hypocrisy_Central False analogy.

…same as some would see the government barring their right to use the free market system to sell a kidney… doesn’t work, because I am not burdened by keeping a kidney. A kidney does not act on my body parasitically. And you can donate a kidney if you want to, you just can’t make money off it.

It’s a lot more like saying you can’t have a kidney removed if it’s causing you health problems.

@Hypocrisy_Central Right. Just like they didn’t in the past.

Gotcha HC. I was just wondering.

@zenvelo […doesn’t work, because I am not burdened by keeping a kidney.
Neither is the woman obliged to keep the developing human (as nature or God mandated, for lack of a better word) beyond the time specified, which on average is about nine months. It is not a parasitic relationship, it is a designed relationship, naming it other than is just a justification to be selfish and not accommodate that.

And you can donate a kidney if you want to, you just can’t make money off it.
Then I don’t truly have complete autonomy over my body as the government can dictate what and how I can deal with certain parts of it. If the government had no hand in what I do with my body I could sell every part I did not think I needed for whatever I could profit from it.

“Neither is the woman obliged to keep the developing human (as nature or God mandated, for lack of a better word) beyond the time specified, which on average is about nine months. It is not a parasitic relationship, it is a designed relationship, naming it other than is just a justification to be selfish and not accommodate that.”

Literally all of what you’ve said in the above is false. Besides the time of gestation averaging 9 months.

Your ignorance is as exhausting as it is astounding.

^ Literally all of what you’ve said in the above is false.
Where is your scientific proof that the developing human just invaded the mother’s body like a tape worm or developed from tissue designed to be something other than a developing human? I think your denial of the process of how human life is continued is far worse than any ignorance you have.

I know better than to waste any effort on you.

^ Because you don’t come to a gunfight with a water pistol, if you had the ammo maybe it would work better for you.

Literally the same conversation, involving the same Fluther members, has been had on this site before in a different thread. Why would I bother trying to appeal to your sense of logic and reason when there is ample evidence that you would never listen to me anyway?

@Hypocrisy_Central . If it is ‘designed, ’ then why doesn’t ‘He’ intervene and stop abortions ?

For that matter, why does this god allow anything ‘He’ doesn’t support?

Or does ‘He’ support carnage, and misery?

Or is ‘He’ powerless to help, and simply an observer?

@MrGrimm888 If it is ‘designed, ’ then why doesn’t ‘He’ intervene and stop abortions ?
Here are why, which you and I am sure some others will not accept, so the question is rather rhetorical, but just to show there is an answer; the reason He doesn’t step in and stop it is the same reason He doesn’t make everyone go to some church house, He allows free will.

For that matter, why does this god allow anything ‘He’ doesn’t support?
If He mad you and everyone else do as He willed as if you were a robot, then you would say He wasn’t fair, that you are controlled.

Or does ‘He’ support carnage, and misery?
No, but as with anything, there are consequences to one’s actions. Some parents don’t condoned their kids fighting but if the kid fights he/she might lose some teeth, that would be a byproduct of his/her actions.

Or is ‘He’ powerless to help, and simply an observer?
I have seen him intervene on behalf of those who are His, do you see parents getting deeply involved of the day to day of kids who are not theirs and have parents already?

The biggest mind jack is people want God to jump in and micromanage what they want Him to, usually when they will suffer loss, but don’t want Him to bother them when they want to do what they want, how they want, when they want. He is going to control every iota, or let some people hang themselves by their own rope by way of free will.

^Yes. Religion is a convenience thing I suppose, for some.

But. If He’s ok with free will, why oppose people’s free will to have abortions?

How do you know God doesn’t favor abortions?

^ But. If He’s ok with free will, why oppose people’s free will to have abortions?
Even secular logic can’t miss the bread crumbs to that door. If you created a robot to build pocket calculators, but the machine somehow started to make pocket watches, the creator of the robot might be opposed to that. God designed man and women to share in creating by making them (both of them) working in unison to create new life, the life that He ultimately installed (for lack of a better word) after the foundation for that life was set in motion by us humans.

How do you know God doesn’t favor abortions?
Show me it in the Bible, if you cannot find it, that shows me He did not create man and women to set the conditions of new life for them to destroy that life, if so why make men and women with the ability?

God punishes people by causing stillbirths.
Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.—2 Samuel 12:14

God punishes unfaithful wives with miscarriages/spontaneous abortions:
The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.—Numbers 5:21–21, 27–28

God’s judge orders the burning to death of a pregnant woman (with no regard to the fetus):
Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.—Genesis 38:24

Infants less than a month old aren’t considered people:
Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD.—Numbers 3:15–16

And there are numerous instances in OT law where he lays the value of any baby under a month old at exactly zero. There are places where the Israelites are actively encouraged to kill any woman that might be pregnant, to avoid the risk of those babies being males who will grow up and want to fight them. There’s King David who wrote the psalm with that lovely line, “Happy is he who dashes the infants’ heads against the rocks”

Oh, there’s also the bit where if a man beats your wife so much she miscarries, you can fine him for damaging your wife, but you don’t get to kill him back unless your wife dies. Thus, the OT law doesn’t consider causing a miscarriage to be murder. That eye for an eye, life for life, thing.

Any other requests, O He Who Knows Not The Word?

^Well. If I was confused by the bible before…..That didn’t help.Seems like people would be offended by pretty much all of that. I learneda new word though “whordom.”

@Hypocrisy_Central . Are there not many modern things that aren’t covered in the bible ?
Does omission of something mean God opposes it?

Are condoms,and birth control condoned, or condemned?

Preach on Sister Seek! Let us rejoice as your righteous gospel smites the false prophet with his own weapons.

Well, @Hypocrisy_Central? You asked for biblical proof (of God’s stance on abortion), and @Seek delivered. Do you have the courage to change your views when presented with new information, or will you stubbornly cling to old prejudices?

inb4 an excuse along the lines of “taking scripture out of context” or “satan quoting scripture to deceive”

@Seek 2 Samuel 12:14
Numbers 5:21–21, 27–28
Genesis 38:24
Let’s see how much more you would lie on God’s word for the glory of men and pats on the back. Were those ordinances for the Jews, God’s people, or for everyone? Just to see you lie to those who don’t know.

And there are numerous instances in OT law where he lays the value of any baby under a month old at exactly zero.
Again, another whopping lie, maybe you better spend more time in the Word and what it says about those who twist the Word and leads the baby saints astray.

Psalm 139:13–14
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.

Psalm 22:9–10
9 But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.
10 I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother’s womb
You have been My God.

Psalm 127:3
Behold, children are a heritage from the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward.*

You should know how God regards the unborn as well as those who get the chance at birth, but those who enjoy going back to their vomit (Proverbs 26:10–12) it makes no sense, so think what you want, however wrong.

Any other requests, O He Who Knows Not The Word?
If so, I guess I need a different source, you show you know the word about as well as a chimp knows rocket science.

@MrGrimm888 Are condoms,and birth control condoned, or condemned?
I do not believe so, any more than if a man and his wife (female) decides to not have children and get a vasectomy, or she gets her tubes tied. Condoms and birth control between married people is OK. If they are not married then the prophylactics or birth control is still just tissue, product, items, etc.. use in the commission of sin, no different from a handgun being used to murder someone, it was the heart and actions of the person that is in play.

@AnonymousAccount8 Well, @Hypocrisy_Central? You asked for biblical proof (of God’s stance on abortion), and @Seekdelivered.
She proved she can use political spin in a biblical way, but it is still a festering pile of pseudo secular voodoo disguised as Christianity. You do not know the word or studied the heart of God by His word so you would not know what lies are being shoveled in your face, but you would believe whatever sounds good to you.

So predictable.

^ So predictable.
Yeah, those who do not know the bible from a hole in the ground always come with the same weak rantings. 

except of course none of the passages you cited contradict Seek’s examples in any way.

The fruit of the womb is a reward, but it’s not a person, Biblically speaking, until the living infant is a month old. Killing it is not a crime, Biblically speaking, until it is a month old. It is a reward for good behaviour that your God is more than willing to violently rip away at a moment’s notice for any number of perceived slights.

I’m sorry you only like the parts of the Bible that conform to your worldview, but that doesn’t make those uncomfortable scriptures any less present.

And since you say I lie:

And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.—Leviticus 27:6

No word at all on the monetary value of infants less than one month old. This is when Moses is talking about the value of dedicating a person to God. No value at all for dedicating an infant under a month old.

Proverbs? Is that not a part of the bible?

I’m admittedly (great fully ) ignorant of the Bible. In large part because when ever I hear a quote ,or try to read a passage it’s crazy hard to understand, contextually. To me, it’s so confusing it could be interpreted in many different ways.

@Seek . Why is the one month old thing so important? Is there mention of the significance? Or is it just like a posted rule?

@MrGrimm888 probably has to do with the mortality rate of infants being highest during the first month of life.

No specific mention that I’ve ever seen. It’s probably because if you’re living in 4000-ish BC, babies die. Kind of a lot. Not much sense in investing a whole lot of money into them until you know they’re not going to croak in a few days.

It’s a bit odd though since circumcision – the covenant between a male child and G-d – was done after 8 days.

Proverbs is a part of the Bible, yes. It’s one of three books attributed to King Solomon, the other two being Song of Solomon and Ecclesiastes.

Solomon was the son of David with the woman Bathsheba (whose husband David had killed so he could have her. Those family values!)

Actually, Solomon would have had an older brother, but God made Bathsheba miscarry because of David’s sin of having Bathsheba’s husband Uriah the Hittite murdered. (Woo! Holy Abortion!)

Solomon is most famous for asking for the gift of Wisdom with fasting and prayer after being annointed to the throne of Israel. God was impressed as this request (as opposed to his asking for a long life or death of his enemies) so it was granted to him.

He was also quite the ladies’ man, which got him into a lot of trouble and ended with God punishing him by stripping ten of the tribes of Israel from his patrilineal descendants. All God’s wisdom, and ends up ruined by the whim of his cock. What a story.

@janbb – That’s probably so you could tell them apart from the non-Israelite babies.

@Seek Yes, but it’s still giving value to an infant under one month was the point I was raising.

Ooooooooh! Bible fight!

@canidmajor Hold the popcorn. I wouldn’t fight with @Seek on biblical questions, she’s got me beat there, but it is a curious point.

But fun to watch, no? :-)

Pass the popcorn and a dog or two!

@Seek . It’s the balls. They’ve been the downfall of many a male of every species…..

Thanks for the biblical info.