If your country is in a horrible state, should you stay in your country and try to make it better, or leave it?

Let’s begin with the ship analogy. What are my chances of retarding the sinking? Have I any useful skills to apply toward keeping the tub afloat? Ship or country, there are too many unstated variables to make a reasonable guess.

@Sneki95 Have you ever met a refugee from another country and asked them why they had to move? I had the most amazing experience, quite unexpectedly, when I moved to Norway (for love, not abandoning a fucked up country). I enrolled in the local language class the majority of the students weren’t there because they had the choice. Norway let them in because of their circumstances in their country of origin. Their stories were heartbreaking. And I sat there and cried. A 20-something kid from Afghanistan who had never been able to go to a proper school his entire life because there was first war with Russia, then the Taliban and then the Americans. A young man from Nigeria who’s family’s corruption set him on the run because he wouldn’t join them in their government schemes of bribery and systematic theft. His father told him, ‘Join us or we kill you.’ An entire family from Iraq who left during the first Desert Storm War. The got as far as Germany, but it was Norway that finally gave them asylum. The oldest daughter had a beautiful voice and would sing for us. There was a couple from Indonesia who got married and they were very shy about their story, but it turned out they had been kidnapped and tortured because their marriage hadn’t been approved by the extended community. They were not related, but their last names were the same before they got married. It was tabu. Their application was later rejected, so they were sent back to Indonesia. They were having to live on separate islands for a while, but they later found somewhere away from the community that abused them. They had two kids and the youngest had only ever known life here in Norway. He worked at the Universtiy as an associate professor but then his contract ran out and they tried to stay, UDI said their reason wasn’t strong enough.

Most people don’t run because they don’t particularly like the politics in their country. It gets very personal. When bombs are hitting your roof, its not political anymore.

That’s a really tough question. It’s one of those that each individual has to answer for themselves. Nobody here on this site has the experience, or the right, to answer that for anyone else.

We had a rule in disaster work: Take care of number one. If you go down, you have just left the team short handed and added to the burden by becoming another casualty. There is always a moment when you know you have to start taking care of number one. It’s when you realize that you are no longer effectual and either have to take a break, or leave so you don’t become another casualty.

Live to fight another day. Even if it means fighting from offshore in a completely different way.

It is a question impossible to answer as it depends so much on the circumstances. With many people it isn’t a choice so much as a desperate attempt to survive.

And, let’s not forget that the ability to leave is a privilege most do not enjoy.

Fuck my country.

I think there are so many other factors in the decision other than duty to one’s country. I have lived abroad and would consider it again but there are so many threads tying me to where I live – the comfort of my own home, the familiar customs and dear friends. Also, I am poised halfway between my two children. I loved living in England but there were cultural nuances I just didn’t get and never would.

It alsdo depends on your age and familial responsibilities but I think it’s worth considering. And also, if you stay would you truly work to make things better? Are you an activist type?

The best thing if one is serious is to try it for a time and see if it is for you but not burn any bridges yet.

I have thought about a move to Victoria, Canada but am more likely to relocate to California if I move – which is it’s own country.

Another point I’d like to make is I know a lot of people who left their country of birth, but they still send money and support family and friends back in Colombia or Indonesia. My step son’s mother helped her sister set up a pig farm outside Bogota to help support her huge family back there. When people leave, sometimes it puts them in a better position to help. She left Colombia because she had a newborn baby and her friends were disappearing, sometimes completely, some would show back up severely beaten as a warning. She was part of a student group protesting for labour rights.

I’m really proud of my step son’s mother, actually. She’s been very active in an international group that meets online to spread awareness though lobbying different governments and sponsoring art projects for awareness of victims of injustice. She went down to Oslo when the recent peace treaty was signed between FARC and the Colombian government.

@cazzie “And, let’s not forget that the ability to leave is a privilege most do not enjoy.”

True that.

As long as our lives were not in danger I would stick it out.
Even with it’s problems I am kind of fond of Canada.

I really can’t imagine that entire US being in that bad of shape that I would want to leave the country. Illinois the state I live in is an example of how oppressive it is towards small business and income tax overall that makes many other more business friendly states way more attractive that I would move my company if I could.

But to answer your question directly I would not move out of the country…I love it here warts and all.

It depends on the coutry. If it can be considered a sinking ship, how long has it been that way. Did that country really care for your needs, or did you survive in spite of needs going unmet? For some countries, there is a government, a leadership, and the responsibility of that government is to do what is best for the people. If the government fails to do that, then it fails to be a country deserving of allegance, and is simply a geographical location. It then becomes a matter of loyalty to fellow citizens.
It it possible in such a scenario that disbanding could be the healthiest solution for the community.