What exactly does America need to be great again?

Civility. Social justice.

“Stand up to ignorance, because if you don’t, the ignorant will run free to spread ignorance like a disease.”

Depends on what you mean by great. With all its flaws, I think it’s pretty great already. Sure we need lots of fixing. But it’s frighteningly evident to me that our thin-skinned, megalomaniacal new president doesn’t have the skills, intelligence or vision to get it done.

Intelligent leadership.

People with ideals, not greed.

How can we make America great again when America never stopped being great in the first place? Do we want to make America great like China? Great like Great Britain? Great like Ethiopia? Or Germany?

There are many nations on this earth that could be considered great. And it depends on the standard of greatness.

I think the slogan denies the greatness that already exists.

Sure, as a nation, politically socially and morally, we have our faults. Our various media outlets make a nice profit reminding us of them.

But it is difficult to find – in all of human history – a greater force for good. For example, the Declaration of Independence; the Constitution and Bill of Rights; Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation; the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth and Nineteenth Amendments; the Land Grant College and Homestead Acts; the transcontinental railroad system; our national parks; child labor laws, Social Security; the National Labor Relations Act; GI Bill; interstate highway system; putting a man on the moon; the Affordable Care Act. Historically, the United States government has been the author of many of the best aspects of our public and personal lives.

More guns, more walls, more isolationism, more power, more laws, more biblical scripture, more authority, more conservative values, more conservative “facts”, more intimidation, more torture, more jails, more lies, more internment camps for illegal immigrants, more low paying jobs, more union busting, more individual responsibility, more corporate freedom, more pipelines, more energy production in park lands and sensitive environments, more healthcare for congressmen, more corporate subsidies, more voting restrictions, more abortion restrictions, more abstinence, more punishment, more patriarchy, more morality, more morality police, more police militarization, more laissez faire, more religious “freedom”, more prayer in school, more lax rules on what is truth, more monetary compensation for congressmen, more lobbyists, more women at the homefront and not the workfront, more market values, more discipline, more private schools financed with public money, more of everything for those at the top, more military parades, more goose-stepping….

@Strauss I find it interesting that those things you listed are for the citizens of the nation and not for the nation itself. One could almost believe that those who came up with them thought that the role of government was to provide for its people, not to subjugate and use them for the betterment of those in charge; a decidedly un-conservative mindset if I may say so.

The 20th century may go down in history as the American century. The U.S. used its strength to play a decisive role in the world wars and then to engage in the Cold War struggle against the Soviet Union, leading to the latter’s dissolution.

Going forward, things are different. No single nation is going to dominate the way the U.S. did. We are entering an era of global cooperation, like it or not. The U.S. can play an important role by recognizing the importance of globalization. Instead of shutting itself off by raising tariffs on manufacturing and trying to prop up dying fossil fuel industries, it should embrace the future by investing in renewable energy and by preparing its workers for jobs in the digital economy. To maintain an educated and healthy workforce, the government needs to provide at least an additional two years training beyond high school and single payer insurance.

Single-payer healthcare. Healthcare is a solved problem. Other countries can care for their ill without breaking the bank, let’s learn from what has worked elsewhere. To be great we must first be compassionate.

I think the whole idea of “making America great again” is a smoke screen. As if America got broke somehow and now it needs fixing beyond what was inadequate to begin with.

What’s so great about 45 million US citizens living at the poverty level and most of them are living food insecure and need assistance just to not starve to death. Over 13 million kids live in homes without sufficient nutritious food…what is so great about THAT?

Trump directly addressed the issue of hunger when last June he met with Church leaders in NYC. He was asked if elected what he would do about America’s hunger problem, he answered…

“Now, there is one word that would take care of a big chunk of it, and that’s jobs. We need jobs.”

He went on to say…

“We’re gonna get to the inner cities. We need a lot of work on the inner cities. It’s one of the toughest jobs we’re gonna have. The inner cities are a tough, tough job. That’s been going on for a long time. And through various incentives and lots of other things, including spirit and training, we’re gonna get things straightened out. ”

Talk, talk talk. That is all Trump does. So sad. Where is that magical ACA revision that he has been talking about?

@LostInParadise Ummmm….He is not President yet. He has no authority to do anything just yet.

@LostInParadise “talk, talk talk.” Did you get this expression from Trump accusing Hillary of ‘all talk no action?”
I’m surprised you think Trump hasn’t done anything to help America yet-even before he’s inaugurated. I’ll give you a hint: “air conditioning jobs Mexico to America.” A lot of work has already been discussed on adjustments in the Affordable Healthcare Act and that’s in the works. If you watched Fox News, which I’m sure you wouldn’t consider, you would find out more good things Trump is doing right now to make America great again. We need less murders in Chicago, our military forces increased and better schools. Do you expect him to do all this before he is in the White House? Do you think the wall should have been completed by now? These things will take months to a year or so to make us great again. Give him a little more time than one day, ok? It’s much easier to do what Osama Obama is doing which is letting many prisoners , many on death row, to be set free. Very smart decision on Obama’s part. Have to give him the Medal of Freedom for that . Oh, wait. I think he already got it.

It doesn’t need lines of poor queuing for free food. It needs Unions. It needs the working class to be able to speak and have power again. It needs Universal Health Care, because it is a basic human right. It needs a higher minimum wage that actually meets the basic standard of living index. It needs an infrastructure that, at minimum, gives adequate housing and drinking water to every resident. It needs REAL education for ALL.

My 12 year old son recently asked me, ‘Whats the biggest barrier to democracy.’ I answered, ‘Apathy’. Then, after a pause, I said, ‘Apathy because of poor education. Because if you aren’t taught how important your participation is and aren’t informed on history and current issues, you won’t be able to participate.’ Then, he said, ‘What’s more important, education or apathy?’ I said, ‘they are are both intertwined.’ and he said, ‘Wrong. The joke is, ‘Who knows and who cares?’ Either my son came up with a joke himself, or he was playing me for the long game. Either way…. ‘Respect’. And he is tragically correct. I give him an A in his civics lesson.

Never been great and probably never will.

@Cruiser Trump isn’t president yet. Does he actually need to be president to pull a replacement ACA rabbit out of his hat? Will that magic rabbit magically appear in his hat at his swearing in? I’m curious…

@kritiper Why don’t you tweet and ask him yourself?

@Cruiser Why bother? According to him, we’ll all know soon enough.

the Republican House has already been very busy, or have you had your head in the sand?

@Aster , I lifted what I said from what Trump said about John Lewis. The only thing that I see Trump doing is breaking campaign promises even before getting into office. He said he would release his taxes. Now he says there is no need. He said that he would defend himself in the Trump University lawsuit and would never settle. He settled. I don’t think he can speak a paragraph without lying.

A fucking miracle?
I mean, as has already been said, america has never been great.
We, on the other hand, have & always will be Great Britain…which is nice.

@ucme Britain wasn’t great until it joined with Scotland and Wales…

@ucme I’ve often heard that phrase prefaced with “not so…”. Just saying…

@zenvelo & yes you @Strauss Bless, such sensitive little souls

@ucme I think history has record of Britain’s bravery and greatness ;)

Every country has its share of impoverished citizens. America has always had poor citizens. We got greater when we created humanitarian help for them in 1935 and Social Security in 1935. We’ve made so many strides in Civil rights, woman’s rights, gay rights, ever trying to emulate the idea of a more perfect nation.

I don’t know exactly what it is the trumpers think we need to get “back” to.

@Dutchess_III That is why Hillary lost as her supporters were comfy, complacent and in the end arrogant…the real world is anything but comfy and the people in the rust belt who were taking on the chin the hardest by the misguided liberal policies came to the dance and voted against another 4–8 years of the shit on a shingle we have been served by the Barry years. We almost got Sanders who wanted everyone to have unlimited amounts of free Soda Crackers and Chicken broth and now we can all look forward to caviar and champagne thanks to Donald and the GOP!~

We need to at least get back to the 60’s when blacks had been granted rights, but weren’t allowed to use them, and women were dying from back ally abortions. From this article.

“House Bill 948 would mandate that the state attorney general’s office ignore “any contrary or conflicting federal statutes, regulations, executive orders, or court decisions” and treat the procedure as a felony except in cases where the mother’s life was threatened because of pregnancy complications. Abortion was legalized federally in 1973 following the Supreme Court’s decision in Roe vs. Wade.”

I call bullshit on your caviar and champagne post @Cruiser. We will still have poor people. A civilized nations helps them out.

@Dutchess_III Calm down, take a deep breath…you seem to have missed the tilda

Sry.

What we REALLY need we will never get.
The tax system needs an overhaul. It would require planning more complex than anyone can handle.
The same goes for schooling. The entire approach, system, and funding need an overhaul. Again, nobody capable.
We are what anthropologists have uncovered and marveled about other places. We have overpopulated our capacity for change.
The only way to improve would be to implement restructuring which will never be approved because nobody is willing to fund, or initiate something of that magnatude.
Still, I am hopeful we can at least scoot closer.

@Patty_Melt just my opinion but:

The tax system itself is complex and needs to be simplified. THAT is the problem, not that it is more complex than we can handle. We need to determine and focus on what the purpose is and what is the most efficient way to get there. We also need to keep special interests out of the equation. They are the reason that the system has become more complex and more convoluted over the years.

Same goes for education. The biggest obstacle we need to overcome is not the complexity but the fact that we have no common goal in mind. We need to determine what exactly it is that we want to accomplish and come to an agreement on it. Once we agree what the problem is, what the goal is, then we can come up with a working system.

And, while I cannot say we have overpopulated our capacity for change, I can say that the problem, once again, is that we have no goal; no purpose. At least not one we can agree on. We fight each other because we do not have common cause.

I wish I were as hopeful as you but I do not foresee positive change in the future. I envision less than half the population cramming their version of progress (which they define as going backwards to make us great AGAIN) down the throats of the other half of the population and telling us to get used to the idea. Or not, they really don’t give a shit whether we like it or agree with it.

The complexities we cannot handle is the magnitude of implementing, not the changes themselves.
To put the needed changes into effect would be extremely complex.
Changes have to be structured to fit shore to shore, border to border. It isn’t possible to do a one size fits all program. To make changes, every last little detail has to be considered, and addressed.

I think it’s great now.

Anybody who lives here and doesn’t like it is always free to take up residence elsewhere and see if that suits them better.

@Cruiser you’re forgetting that Hillary won the popular vote, so even if ”her supporters were comfy, complacent and in the end, arrogant” they still came out and voted for her.

Today is the day of the inauguration. It’s mourning in America.

@jca That was my whole point! She focused on being popular rather than the electoral college where it all mattered. That is what defines complacency and arrogance.

@jca your statement above reeks of Jingoism. I did not think highly of the “America, Love it or leave it” attitude in the late 60’s & early 70’s and it is no better now. When you see something that is wrong you work to fix it, not just run away and leave the problem to someone else.

America being great again is completely abstract and each person can interpret and define it as they want.

A lot of people think of “the old days” as easier, calmer, more polite, better financial situation, family oriented, and I think most importantly America was heralded as the best country in the world. I’m thinking 40–50 years ago-ish.

We, Americans, boasted about having a large middle class, this made us “better” than other countries. It seemed like the world wanted to immigrate here for opportunity and the American Dream. Women were more equal here than other countries, factory workers were beginning to get decent pay. Suburbs were just starting to significantly grow. Families could make it with just one parent working. Children walked to school and played outside. All the things I name here were not true for everyone nor in every corner of the country, but I think this is what many people picture in their mind.

If I could be back to America financially, it would be the 60’s and 70’s. Someone recently opened my eyes to this business of CEO’s making so, incredibly much more, starting in the 80’s and continuing today, than they did back then. Millions and millions of dollars being horded, instead of put back into circulation, or going to pay for employee wages.

@Dutchess_III It goes without saying that the “hording” doesn’t apply in 100% of the cases. (Just throwing that out there for GP’s.)

The promise of America was never that you would get free stuff but rather the promise of opportunity. That regardless of the circumstances of your birth, you are limited only by your own imagination. We’ve lost much of that in our haste to provide free stuff for the less fortunate. Free stuff will never alter your lot in life but opportunity can. It’s not that the past was perfect nor that it was more equal but that the opportunity was more prevalent. If we can learn from our mistakes but not lose our dreams, we can restore the ‘American Dream’ and the promise of opportunity for all. That is what ‘Make America Great Again’ is all about. IMHO

Not “free stuff,” @Jaxk. Help. Nothing is free, anyway. If we had national health care, we’d see an increase in our taxes. I’m good with that.

@jaxk I don’t think it’s about free stuff, I think it’s about a loss of integrity. Extreme wealth and greed is heralded in a way like never before. Some Christian churches are encouraging it like it is what God wants for “you.” This is a huge shift in Christianity. Pursuing wealth is the American way, but it has crossed a line in many instances.

People want free stuff, because they don’t see any other way to get it. If they could reasonably work for and pay for stuff I think that’s what the majority wants.

That is the majority of the people that I’ve known who’ve received assistance, including myself, wanted.

Please enlighten me about what “opportunities” will save me from my own immune system attacking me. Affordable healthcare, on the other hand….

@Mariah I am so sorry you are scared. I wish I could do or say something to ease your fears. Honestly, I believe with all my heart you are safe. I know it doesn’t help you to know how I feel. I just hope you see proof very quickly, for the sake of us all.
Why don’t you write the white house a detailed personal letter, letting President Trump know what you need, and why you are afraid. It couldn’t hurt, and he might just keep you in mind as he drafts the revised health plan.

Thanks that’s kind. A lot of people tell me I’ll be fine but a lot of people told me Trump didn’t stand a chance at winning the presidency, too.

@Mariah Opportunities that will save you from your own immune system are constantly evolving antibiotic resistant superbugs. You’ll still be dead but it won’t be because of your immune system.

@kritiper: I think she is referring to an autoimmune disease.

@jca I think @kritiper was being facetious and serious at the same time.

@kritiper She stands to lose her health insurance under trump. She won’t be able to afford ANY treatments, no matter how useless you may think they are. At least she has treatment for her disease now.

@Dutchess_III Anyone on the Affordable Care coverage be it exchange, Medicare, Medicaid was on a collision course of catastrophic failure and ultimately would have had nothing to back them up when the ACA was going to go belly up. Trump is doing Obama a YUGE favor by eviscerating the ACA as Trump will now own the success or failure of the ACE by his decisions he now makes.

@Mariah Do you get your health insurance through your company or you buy it yourself? Even before ACA many large companies didn’t have a pre-existing clause for their employees. Some did, I’m not trying to downplay it, I’m just saying it’s a possibility. Is your company self insured?

@Cruiser I’m sorry for you for wishing people to DIE just to remove Obama’s name.

There will be deaths because of the removal of ACA and people will just not be covered for medical insurance. My younger brother could be one of them. But that is not your skin in the game.

CONSERVATIVES will be out looking for liberals to get tattooed for registration as a Muslims because,“All liberals must be Muslims or sympathizers”

In my neck of the woods “if your great grand pappy wasn’t a ‘Johnny Reb’ and your grandfather and father weren’t members of the KKK, you must be a god damn liberal”

@Cruiser How about the people like me who are covered by employer insurance but now face discrimination due to pre existing conditions and lifetime caps?

@JLeslie I am at a very small company. A start-up.

@Dutchess_III I understand her dilemma.
I don’t have any health care coverage at all and don’t qualify for Medicaid. But there are worse things in life these days. Things that will very soon have no treatment at all save amputation, if that.
I wish her all the best.

I know one thing that would make America great, Affordable health care for everyone not just the wealthy Obama really did try that for Americans but the republicans were going to have none of it.
The USA as far as I understand is the last industrialized nation on earth not to have universal health care for all it’s citizens Obama really did try and change that but the conservatives were not going to have that, now that they are in full power they are drooling all over them selves to repeal it, think they will have anything in it’s place before they strike it off the books?
My money is a big fat no, but I really hope I am wrong.
All I can say is THANK GOD I am a Canadian!!!

@Tropical_Willie @Mariah Please do us both a favor and make an effort to tune into news other the faux news. I have not seen one legit news bite that even remotely suggest Trump and friends will do anything other than to ensure that those with pre-existing conditions will be able to have access to AFFORDABLE coverage and those who are poor will also be entitled to Medicaid. Can you please clue me into why you support all this mass hysteria about the sky is falling? FACTS please! Not asking much here….

Christ @Cruiser, could you do me a favor and stop accusing me of being ignorant every time we have this conversation? I wake up every morning and the first thing I do is get on news.google.com and type in “ACA” and read everything new that comes up. My life depends on it; you can be assured that I am doing a lot of work to be informed.

Are you aware that Congress is CURRENTLY in the process of repealing the ACA and they have NO AGREED UPON PLAN for a replacement? Are you aware that even if they do replace simultaneous with repeal, the replacement plans that have been floated are terrible for people with high medical bills? Are you aware of how badly high-risk pools have failed people like me in the past? Are you aware that an HSA equates to paying all your medical bills yourself with only a small tax advantage to offset it?

You’re only accusing me of ignorance because you have no other defense for the cruelty of your beloved party towards the nation’s ill.

” even remotely suggest Trump and friends will do anything” you coulda stopped here

@Mariah And you once again have ZERO proof of Trumps cruelty and ill will towards you at this moment in time. You still have coverage do you not? The fact that you keep harping on the sky is falling and is in fact not only magnifies your ignorance on this issue going forward. I realize your life depends on health care and since it is THAT important to you I would sincerely expect you to be better informed.

Maybe because he constantly says he’s going to repeal first the AMA with no replacement?? Geez, ....WTFU

@cazzie Show me one person who today does not still have the coverage they had yesterday….watch out don’t let the sky hit you on the head.

@Cruiser He keeps saying he’s going to do that. There are people whose mortgage is either not going to happen or is going to go out now, and we’re only on day 2.

We don’t know what Trump will do. He said that he is going to make health more affordable and increase benefits. Based on his track record, I do not suppose that anything that Trump says is true. Health care experts I have heard on the radio question whether the Republicans are going to be able to suddenly craft an alternative to the ACA. Interestingly though, Trump made no mention of ACA in his inaugural address.

Exactly @LostInParadise No one knows what Trump will do and I would go so far as to say even Trump doesn’t yet know what he will do either do the Republicans. The Repubs have had 6 years so far to figure this shit out and they are so far empty handed. All Trump can really do right now is remove some of the nefarious hidden taxes in the ACA bill.

The ACA is a house of cards. As good as it may seem to those enrolled in it who think it the best thing since sliced bread are clueless as to the mechanics and financial underpinnings supporting the ACA. The ACA is slowly eroding away. Insurance companies are abandoning this sinking ship. Premiums are sky rocketing, doctors and hospitals are leaving the ACA, wait times for specialists are going into the months out time frame. It’s not pretty and only getting worse by the day. Trump could easily keep his mitts off of the ACA and let it die a slow death along with many of those who depend on it…and then what? IMHO if anyone whose life truly depends on affordable health care you would serve yourself well to hope and pray Trump fixes Obama care….your life does depend on him doing this before it is too late.

To do nothing means the inevitable implosion and collapse of the ACA. This is not just my own opinion

Ok, so Trump takes apart ACA. Then we get to see if prices go down and if more people are covered. When this doesn’t happen then will republicans finally agree the free market is for shit regarding health care?

I give Trump two years regarding healthcare, and hope to God not too many people suffer or die. Although, that might have to happen. Just like the traffic light doesn’t go in until two people in two separate accidents have died at that intersection.

I say two years, because the first year he and the republicans will plead for America to give them a chance to fix it and to give it a chance to work. We’ll have to wait to say it isn’t working. The majority of republicans have incredible amnesia about how sucky and full of thrives healthcare was before ACA.

Obama’s ACA was broken or, at least, well on it’s way to failing. I don’t want to get rid of it, only get it fixed so that it works and works for everyone, @Mariah included. I can only hope that Rumpy can do (at least) that much.

@Cruiser Insurance companies are abandoning this sinking ship. Premiums are sky rocketing, doctors and hospitals are leaving the ACA, wait times for specialists are going into the months out time frame

Do you think this is because of the way it was designed? Many Most of the ACA’s imperfections are a result of compromises made on in order for Congressional Republicans to be able to make it palatable for their lobbyists, the insurance companies and Big Pharma.

Bro I am scared BECAUSE I do not know what he’ll do. Do you understand that in issues of life or death I cannot simply wait for him to kill me before I start complaining? I will be dead. I have to complain while I’m still alive if I want to influence events.

It is not acceptable to begin dismantling my healthcare while giving me no information about what you’re going to replace it with. I must assume it will be nothing because I have to plan for the worst because if I do not I will die. If they have a plan why have they not released details of that plan? Reasonable people can only assume there is no plan. And like I said, the replacements that have been suggested have already been analyzed and been shown to be bad news for people like me.

Don’t tell me to shut up because I still have coverage on the second day of his presidency. Repealing laws takes time. The process is happening now.

Stop fucking calling me ignorant. I’m way more informed than you are on this issue.

@Cruiser whines about this issue because his STATE and INSURANCE is charging him more as an employer and it’s not the ACA’s fault, unless cost restrictions should have been written into the legislation, (which never would have been passed, then because the Insurance lobbiests would never have allowed it.) but he’s blaming ACA when he should be blaming the Insurance companies. Some states, like Wisconsin, turned down Federal Support to help put things in place with the ACA because they wanted to see it fail (they were Republican States). It cost their citizens dearly and drove up premiums, especially for self employed and small employers. The Republicans cutting the noses off of their citizens to spite the ACA.

Baron Trump
You lot had the Clinton & Bush dynasty, welcome to the future, the Trump clan…enjoy.

Trump is desperate to be “popular.” Maybe HE will push universal health care through to achieve that. Just a thought.

@Dutchess_III for the sake of the millions of Americans that can not afford high priced health insurance offered by the rip off insurance companies I sure hope so, but I won’t hold my breath.

Me either. I’m safe with my insurance, but my heart goes out to @Mariah, and my fellow citizens like her.

I have great insurance through my job (when we go to the ER the staff tells us we have a great policy) but they say changes to the ACA will be affecting all insurance policies.

@Strauss With all due respect I am unaware of ANY compromises made by the Dems with respect to Republican desires. Did not see it happen.

The ACA WAS the compromise. Dems wanted single-payer.

@cazzie Get your shit straight before you open your yapper. I pay near double what the ACA offers. I would much rather pay more for what suits my needs and my family’s needs that the shit on a shingle HMO with a $10,000 deductible ACA offers to make it fucking “affordable”. I was promised my premiums would not go up when the ACA was implemented…well fuck me they have gone up 55%. Obama did not say that those insured outside the exchange would be fucked in the ass by the ACA he in fact promised ALL Americans rainbows and butterflies when he passed his POS policy. Thankfully I can afford his charade.

@Cruiser I am unaware of ANY compromises made by the Dems with respect to Republican desires.

I followed the process almost religiously while it was happening. I’m on my phone right now and don’t have a lot of time to research, but I’ll post some links later.

@Strauss You know some people will just put their hands over the EYES and EARS and go La-La-LA I don’t see it or hear it. If you don’t see facts or hear them, then the “your reality” is your’s alone.

@Cruiser who is raising your premiums? It’s your insurance company. Not the ACA. Scapegoat. Shut your fucking yapper before you tell me to.

@Cruiser How many times do I have to say this. If you have insurance, they come under the umbrella of the ACA. They have to abide by the laws provided in the ACA. If you have insurance you “have” Obamacare. IT’S A SET OF LAWS VOTED ON BY CONGRESS.

@Dutchess_III You could not be more wrong. My health insurance is purchased outside of the ACA run exchanges. My company is less than 50 employees and exempt from the oppressive overreach of the ACA. I am free to pay the fine or get my own health insurance. Please READ THE LAW and get your facts straight before you tell me what you want to believe is right in my world. I really thought you to be smarter and more rational than this.

@Dutchess_III When I went to the ACA to explore, the company I spent some time with, and thought I was going to get insurance through, kept advising me to lie on the application, and when my husband read the fine print it did not comply with ACA and technically I should have checked on my taxes I was not covered and paid the penalty, even though I would have had insurance. When we asked the representative about it she said no one has any trouble with it. Which I guess means no one gets caught in the lie by the government. We didn’t take that insurance in the end and stuck with COBRA for now.

I don’t have insurance for the employees in my company. I am going to look into it this year when my own COBRA expires. I know one of my employees doesn’t have any insurance, the other might, I never asked him. I think my third employer has insurance through her spouse.

Our insurance is outside of the exchanges too. Our insurance company still has to comply with laws set out in the Affordable Care Act, @Cruiser.

@Dutchess_III I don’t think it does have to comply after my experience, it just has to disclose it doesn’t.

The ACA is not a “company,” @JLeslie. It’s a set of laws.
The exchanges were set up in the hope that it would help people find what they needed more easily than researching each insurance company individually.
It was a courtesy. Worked for some, but not for others.

No. It HAS to comply. By law. Just like, by law, landlords are not allowed to refuse to rent to minorities. They can’t just post a notice that says they don’t comply with that law, and be good to go.
That isn’t how laws work

@Dutchess_III I know. I got the bunches of calls from companies trying to get my business once I did the ACA form. Well, my husband did it.

Well, yeah. It makes sense that sales people would react like that.

I’m telling you thousands of people think they have insurance that complies with ACA and it doesn’t.

In what way do they not comply? Do you have an example?

My husband caught it when we went through all that shit because he was a VP of compensation and benefits. He had to deal with all the compliance shit from the government for his company. Then, he gets laid off and we are out there on our own like so many, and the ACA is way below par in delivering what I feel would be ideal.

I found this

You’re right, to a certain extent. Grandfathered plans:
Plans that were in force prior to 2014 have varying degrees of exemptions from the ACA’s rules. Grandfathered plans must have already been in effect as of March 23, 2010, and while they are required to comply with some of the ACA’s regulations, they are exempt from many others.

Grandfathered plans may remain in force indefinitely as long as they are still offered by the carrier and do not make any substantial changes to the plan. But they are dwindling in number due to normal turnover of insurance products. No individual or business has been able to purchase a new grandfathered plan since March 23, 2010, although eligible employees may still enroll in existing grandfathered plan.

This only applies to grandfathered plan.

Much of the problem lies with Republican states who refused to expand medicade (or care, whatever.)

And nobody HAS to go through the exchange. You’re free to call up each insurance company individually and get information from them.

^^It was something with the type of coverage, or the minimum coverage. I don’t remember exactly. I might be able to dig it up in his email. When we questioned the representative her first response was no one has a problem, meaning the government never questioned any of their insured as far as they know. When we pushed them they told us to just pay the penalty then if we were uncomfortable lying. Most people in that policy I’m sure don’t know they are lying they think they have insurance that meets ACA requirements. It said right on their form it doesn’t comply, but they didn’t tell us until after we went through the stress of answering a long application with them in the phone. They didn’t verbally tell us anything of the sort, we had to read I in the fine print.

@Dutchess_III I can’t argue with you concerning what the Ins Co’s have to comply with…I am acutely aware of what I have to comply with and the hidden fees taxes are what frosts my cookies and hope Trump holds true to his promise to ax those BS fees taxes.

@Dutchess_III No one has to go through the exchange, but they technically have to comply with ACA or pay the penalty. The exchange gives a false sense of compliance, but it is not the case.

Listen, I’m the rah rah for socialized medicine girl. It’s not like I want the Trump answer. He wants to hope the free market works. Part of me thinks without socialized medicine maybe an extremely competitive market is the second best choice, but I don’t believe it will be a totally open and competitive market. I also feel strongly collusion will happen more than competition, so I’m pretty negative about that choice.

The penalty for not getting insurance in the ACA was too low, and too easy for people to just opt to pay the penalty. Moreover, the insurance was still done by private companies and so paying insurance only helped you during the month you paid. Stop paying you’re not insured. If you paid Aetna for 5 years and used it twice for a routine physical, and then now had to stop paying because you lost your job, and suddenly became sick, Aetna doesn’t give a shit. The only way to cute that problem is socialized medicine.

@JLeslie Would you explain to me what your understanding of the ACA is?

@Dutchess_III You fill a form online answering questions about what state you’re in, I think your age, if you have dependents etc. Then a bunch of brokers call you to sell you their products. If you make less than $60k you get a break on the price. I don’t remember the exact numbers, but like less than $25k you get so much off, less than $40k you would get less of a break, etc. Above $60k you’re paying the same as the family earning $300k.

Companies/employers could choose not to comply with ACA and then they would pay penalties in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, but they were able to not comply. For large companies it was hundreds of thousands, because they were fined per employee.

That’s the exchange. It’s just a small part of the ACA, as a convienience.

The ACA is ” is a United States federal statute enacted by President Barack Obama on March 23, 2010. ”

I know. So what?

Well, companies can also opt not to comply with the Persons With Disabilities act too. Nobody can make you obey the law. But, of course, you pay the price.

For some reason you seemed super focused on the exchange as though that’s the heart of the ACA. It’s not.

No, it’s different. You have to comply with ADA or you can be sued. Companies are allowed to not comply with ACA and pay the penalty. People can bring civil suits regarding ADA. I don’t think they can do that with ACA, not that I know of anyway. The ACA provides outs. You can choose a policy with less coverage than ACA requirements and just pay the penalty.

@Dutchess_III I’m just saying that there are a whole bunch of problems with ACA that a lot of people ignore or don’t know about. It did cost companies more money and it didn’t help people making over $60k and it threw people out to the wolves too often in my opinion. The system is still full of sharks.

I like that preexisting went away and young adults could stay on their parents plan, but there is all sorts of crap not addressed.

@Dutchess_III Again a small business like mine is exempt from ADA requirements.

“That means if your business has 14 or fewer full-time employees or is in business for less than 20 weeks a year, you do not have to be ADA compliant.”

Right, I don’t have to provide any insurance at all because I’m a small company of 5 employees. All employees are full time.

@JLeslie Obama wanted more. A lot more.

@Cruiser (ACA) I sympathize with the onus it put on small businesses like yours. Are you exempt from ACA requirements for your company?
Still doesn’t change the fact that whatever insurance provider you DO have has to be compliant with with the laws enacted in 2010.

Being able to get insurance is the heart of my concern. During the application process I spoke of above that representative wanted me to lie, because she was afraid I’d be turned down for the insurance she was trying to sell us.

@Dutchess_III I believe he did want more.

Still, he never put a third party watchdog to expose the scams and high prices. We learn about that through the media. I don’t see anywhere where he tried to control prices except through subsidizing people who make less than $60k. Insufficient!

Is your insurance through the exchange?

@Dutchess_III Yes…my company is exempt from both ACA and ADA requirements. That said we are technically compliant with both. I provide health insurance that meets and exceeds ACA requirements complete with an “affordable” deductible that won’t put my employees in the poor house.

Well, if you didn’t like the exchange, don’t use it, @JLeslie!

We could nohow noway afford insurance for our employees, @Cruiser! We didn’t even have insurance ourselves when we had the shop.

@Dutchess_III It is indeed a heavy cross to bear.

OMG I’m not talking about the exchange. I’m talking about the laws. There is still insurance out there that does not comply, but it is being sold like you are now insured and comply.

I’m talking about how imperfect the ACA is.

I’m talking about my anger regarding the health care “system” being theives and still being theives under ACA. Lower income people don’t feel
it because now they have fairly reasonably priced premiums. Although, I do realize for some it’s still not affordable, they still fall between the cracks.

When I asked you to explain what you thought the ACA was you said, “You fill a form online answering questions about what state you’re in, I think your age, if you have dependents etc. Then a bunch of brokers call you to sell you their products. If you make less than $60k you get a break on the price. I don’t remember the exact numbers, but like less than $25k you get so much off, less than $40k you would get less of a break, etc. Above $60k you’re paying the same as the family earning $300k.”
That’s the exchange! It’s like the pinky finger on a large man. Almost expendable and a very small part of the overall.

All insurance companies have to comply with the law, except in certain grandfathered plans. It was insurance reform.

A big part of the ACA was for the individual states to expand medicaid. The republican states, like Kansas, refused. Not much has changed for poor people here.
But if they DO manage to get insurance, the insurance company they use has to comply with the ACA, or face whatever punishments we face for breaking the law.

@Dutchess_III You’re right. I did answer about the exchange. I do understand the ACA was a set of laws. But, it’s all part of the changes Obama put in place.

Do you have healthcare insurance? If so, how did you pick it? Through an employer, the exchange? Going directly to insurance companies? Which in my opinion going directly to insurance companies is not really any different than the exchange. Or, are you on Medicaid and you basically get what you get and didn’t have to deal with any of the sales people and forms regarding your medical history. Don’t get me wrong, I know getting Medicaid requires forms and stress, I help my aunt with all the documents for her Medicaid.

Yes we have heath care insurance, through my husband’s employer. It is ACA compliant.

If I had to get health care on my own I’d just start calling insurance companies directly. I’d start with BCBS.
I’m not old enough for Medicaid and I wouldn’t qualify for Medicare even if I was poor, becasue I don’t have any dependent children.

Hijack alert. Uhhhhh, what was the question?

What the exchange does is pull a list of insurance companies that may work for you, based on the information you plugged in. It isn’t supposed to be anything but a convenience.

@Dutchess_III Medicaid is for low income and Medicare is for the elderly.

So, you haven’t dealt with the new system, you just dealt with picking one of the 4 plans (I made up the number) your husband’s employer has to offer. You haven’t really dealt with the exchange or getting your own insurance at all, is that right? And, you aren’t a corporation that has to deal with complying.

Maybe you have dealt with it in the past, having to get your own insurance, I don’t want to assume.

I agree the exchange is supposed to be a convenience, but you wind up getting sort of harassed in the process too.

Iget them confused! But you know what I mean.

No, I haven’t gone through the exchange. From what I hear I probably don’t want to deal with it! And no, I’m not not a small business owner or corporation that has to deal with it.

Yes, when we owned the shop I looked into several different insurance companies. No way in hell could we afford it even for ourselves, much less for 3 or 4 employees. This would have been 2002 – 2007.

a couple months ago I helped my daughter pick from the health insurance options offered by her company. Her health insurance provider is ACA compliant. Otherwise they wouldn’t be in business.

@Dutchess_III: Medicaid is not age based, it’s income based. Medicare is age based.

@Dutchess_III Ok, so my only point is you haven’t dealt with the shit that people are complaining about who are basically out there on their own, or who are having to comply.

The people who benefitted from ACA are very happy, and in theory the benefit is for all of us, because anyone at any time become sick, and really need that preexisting clause. But, you are fighting for ACA like it’s a panacea and it’s far from it. In my opinion. It doesn’t even bother me that might pay more than someone who earns less than me, because I’m socialist minded when it comes to healthcare, but it does really bother me the cut off is only $60k for discounts, it bothers me that companies are out there scamming people, and it really bothers me healthcare is so expensive. No one is addressing that. Obama did not address it. I don’t want to be so happy about the 25 year old dependents and the preexisting that we space out about what is still really really wrong with healthcare in this country.

I hear people all around talking about Obama like he is amazing like so many Republicans talk about Reagan. Bullshit. They are both imperfect. They both did some good, but let’s not forget what is still bad. Idealizing our leaders is a huge mistake in my opinion. I feel like I’m constantly defending Republicans, when I have been a Democrat my entire adult life. I have serious issues with a lot of what the republicans stand for. However, I see problems with the Democrats too.

I did know what you meant. I wasn’t “correcting” you to be obnoxious, just letting you know in case you didn’t know.

@JLeslie already told me that @jca. I was going to Google to make sure I got them the right way because it always confuses me, but I was too lazy. Regardless, you understood my post.

I’m not so much fighting for the ACA as trying to get people to understand what it is. It isn’t a company and it isn’t an insurance provider. It’s insurance reform.

Obama wanted a single payer system. He had to settle for insurance reform. It has helped a great number of people. Mariah comes to mind, and I’m worried for her.

Re the corrections, it’s OK guys. I didn’t mind. I didn’t think you were being obnoxious.

I’m worried for Mariah too. Is her insurance through her company? I’m still not sure. I know she answered me that she works for a small start up. I think if her insurance is currently through her employer she won’t lose her coverage. That’s what I hope. A small company doesn’t have to comply to begin with under ACA yet they chose to.

I told my mom a few years ago, it will have to get really bad, really expensive and people dying and people finally not buying health insurance for things to change. Obama bandaided the system enough that it staved that off from happening longer than if he hadn’t done the ACA. When people truly stop buying insurance then everything will finally fall apart and people will be desperate and the insurers will finally have deep cuts in their revenue.

We could band together like a union, but it’s not enough, it’s too difficult. But, it does look like it needs a grass roots effort of some sort. I think there should be an hour show dedicated to pricing and profits in healthcare every week.

She said the ACA was the only reason she was able to get insurance, I assume because of the pre-existing condition clause in Obamacare. . Millions of people will lose theirs if trump fucks up the ACA. He doesn’t care.

We’ll have to ask her more.

As long as they can afford it, people will buy insurance. You’d be cracked not to.

^^Right, but it seems to me it’s close to unaffordable.

It’s damned expensive if you try to get it on your own.

There were many years, when I was a single mom, that I had no insurance. The kids did. They had medicaid, but I was denied. I GOT IT RIGHT!!!

Lol. Yes, you did!

Mariah will be here to explain tomorrow.

I typed it up tonight after all. I can’t resist a good ACA debate.

I have health insurance through my employer. I pay extra for a nice PPO plan, though it has a pretty high deductible. My employer is a small start-up, <200 employees.

I am not poor, I make a good salary, I recognize that I am fortunate in many ways and so I am not even the most at-risk demographic here. However, because my medical bills are extremely high, I cannot survive without health insurance, even with my good salary. An incident like the one I had in November would cost my entire year’s salary if I were paying out of pocket. And they are not one-time events. In the last ten years there have been 2 calendar years in which I have not been hospitalized. My disease is not going away. I will require care of this nature for my entire life. I am 24.

Because I do not get my insurance through the exchange it seems to be not immediately obvious to some why I am threatened by the repeal of the ACA. But the ACA is forcing even private insurers to play by a set of rules that makes the system survivable for people like me. Without the ACA I would have lost my health insurance in 2010 when I was too sick to be a full time student for a period of time. And someone like me can’t recover from even a short lapse in insurance, even if nothing happens with my health during the lapse. Because before the ACA, people with pre existing conditions had to maintain continuous coverage in order to avoid discrimination. After a lapse you can be denied for the rest of your life. This is a black cloud of anxiety that hangs over the head of every sick person. You cannot make a mistake. You cannot change jobs without being extremely careful. You cannot get a divorce if you get your coverage through your spouse. God help you if you become too sick to work and get kicked from your employer’s plan just when you need it the most. Your insurer owns you.

Furthermore, lifetime and annual caps threaten to fuck me even if I do manage to maintain continuous coverage.

The ACA is also protecting me from being charged more because I am unhealthy, so the insurer can’t pull some shit like “oh we’re not denying you coverage due to your condition! We’d never do such a thing! You can have coverage! It’ll just be $10,000 a month is all.”

I get it. The ACA isn’t perfect. So Congress should fucking improve it, instead of ripping it to shreds and leaving people vulnerable in the interim while they figure out wtf they’re gonna replace it with, which they’ve already had 7 years to stew over with no results. If you’re looking for some magical solution that is going to not fuck the ill while also being cheap, you’re not gonna find it. Our bills are expensive. There’s no way around that. It’s just a question of whether you prioritize people’s lives over people’s wallets. Raise taxes on the 1%. Cut the obscene military budget. Follow in the footsteps of Scandinavian countries where single-payer works and tax the shit out of junk food and alcohol to reduce the nation’s medical bills and fund what remains. It’s a solved problem, guys.

@Mariah Thanks for writing all that out.

See, I still go to how much profit did the hospital and doctors make off of your illness? It shouldn’t cost $10k for your two hour surgery (I totally made up those numbers) and $1,000 for your blood tests, and $5,000 a day for your hospitalization, and $2,000 for your medication. I really wish people would bitch more about that.

I have chronic health problems too. Right now my husband and I have to work a week to pay for our monthly health premium, and then add in my prescriptions, and I do take daily meds and I’m about to start three weeks of two antibiotics, and if I go to the doctor add that in too. I don’t bitch about it too much in these Q’s, because it’s not so much about me, but everyone in my position. Everyone who pays anything for healthcare, and we all do, whether it’s directly or indirectly. Plus, most jellies know I have savings I can dip into if I must, but I resent it!

I don’t see improving ACA. How? I don’t see how anything short of socializing the system will work, except maybe imposing big time regulations to put ceilings on fees. Right now you benefit by paying less in than you use, which doesn’t bother me at all. One day it might be the reverse, but even if it never is I don’t care. But, what I do care is paying for your treatment when the treatment costs three times what it should if our system wasn’t profit centered. I had to pay thousands for treatment outside of my network years ago. Thousand and thousands while paying premiums for insurance. I’m pretty sure I’d have to pay for that treatment even with ACA. There is so many things wrong before, during, and now it will be after ACA, I just don’t understand how any American is ok with health care here.

@Mariah Thank you so much. I so totally understand now.

Hospitals and doctors making a profit is a whole other animal, @JLeslie. For starters, maybe there could be some sort law dealing with a cap on the amount doctors and hospitals are allowed to charge. I mean, if a procedure in Mexico costs $350, and the same procedure in America is $35,000, that’s a problem. How can that be?

When I got sick, my bill was…$200,000 or so. I only paid $1,900 out of pocket and I’m grateful. But I went through the bill with a fine toothed comb anyway. Unreal charges.

When I had my first baby I went through the bill too. They charged me for a plethora of procedures I didn’t have, like an epidural, and an episiotimy. I brought it to my insurance company’s attention. They were grateful. But someone, the hospital, someone should have been charged with something.

The problem with Trump is he can’t begin to fathom having any kind of procedure that he couldn’t pay out of pocket, easily. He doesn’t understand what the big deal is.

@Dutchess_III a whole bunch of people pay the $1900, because it’s not too much of a burdensome amount and never go through the bill. When people have to actually pay high amounts, then they are more careful. I agree with the republicans on that point.

Moreover, your bill probably wasn’t actually $200k. That’s an inflated EOB number. The hospital didn’t get that from your insurance. The $200k is completely bogus. The hospital gets paid a percentage of that or some sort of flat rate from your insurance company. The hospital inflates the number so they get a reasonable amount in the end. It helps you (the insured) be oh so grateful you have insurance when you see those scary big numbers.

My $30k bill for my hospital stay was bullshit too, because my deductible about paid for what was actually owed to the hospital. Around $2500. See, the high deductible plans give us more of a window to how much things really cost, because we are paying 100% until we meet the deductible. Oh, and that accident I had was part of a lawsuit, and you get to use the $30k number in the lawsuit, not the actual that the hospital actually billed and received in the end. See how that all works. The lawsuit asks for treble damages on the $30k. The lawyers make money, people are grateful they had insurance, etc etc.

It’s all a horrible web of lies to make people rich.

It’s not a whole other animal, it is extremely important. People are terrified they can’t afford health care for themselves. Yeah, well, because it is much higher than it should be or needs to be.

How can the cost not matter? I hate paying more for anything that I think is unjustifiable. In Memphis I paid $20 an hour to the kid who cut the bushes in my yard and to the maid that came a few months when I was battered by the accident. That’s almost double what people paid there. I could have gotten away with paying much less. It’s not a matter if being stingy, it’s a matter of whether I feel ripped off.

Charging $500 for an epipen is immoral in my opinion. I don’t want to pay it, but someone can die without it. That’s the thing. They have a hold over us regarding healthcare, we can die.

I deeply fear that’s a ship that sailed once and for all with the election of Donald Trump.

”They are more careful.” Really? Did you just say that, @JLeslie? That damned, uninsured person got hit by a drunk driver while they were sitting at a stop light. That uninsured person should have been more careful.
@Mariah should have been more “careful,” right?

Don’t say that @Pachy…..

More careful looking over the bill. You analyzed your bill, a lot of people don’t. Reread what I wrote. I wasn’t saying @Mariah should have been more careful. WTH? I’m completely empathetic to her situation. I have my own fucking situation. Hell, when I have my heart attack I’ll wish I had kept my cholesterol down, I certainly can’t be critical if anyone with my own health situation and I’m not!

Why are you so ready to think the worst of me lately? I don’t get it. I’m a liberal, I’m a democrat, I’m pro socialized medicine. I didn’t vote for Trump. I just went through chaos in my life the last few years. My husband lost two jobs in a row and we have zig zagged up and down the country trying to Turn things around. I work doing something I don’t love. I have a room packed with ⅓ of my household goods in boxes, so I can’t enjoy things I have acquired. I lost $150K on my house in TN. I had to get the fucking county involved and pay engineers to deal with the major screw up my builder did on my house in Tampa, and it practically put me in divorce court. I have had a chronic condition since my 20’s that ruined my sex life. I’ve been pregnant 5 times, always wanted children, but I lost all 5 pregnancies. Geeez, lay off. Try to think I have good intentions and empathy because I do. I’m not looking for pity, I just don’t want to be treated like I’m a naive bitchy JAP.

Flipping edit didn’t work.

In Case You Missed It
The Senate voted 51 to 48:
1. To end coverage for preexisting conditions, veterans benefits, and aid to rural hospitals.
2. To remove discrimination protection for women in healthcare.
3. Against the provision allowing children to remain on their parent’s insurance till the age of 26.
4. To cut off funding for the Child Health Insurance Program (CHIP).
5. Against ACA contraceptive coverage and maternity care provision.
6. To direct committees to send budget legislation to defund and repeal the Affordable Care Act.
For those who get health insurance through work, no pre-existing conditions. Lifetime caps for coverage are back for everyone.
Real and disastrous actions are being taken that will affect more than just the 20–30 million people who will lose their health care coverage and the 3 million people who will lose their jobs.
Despite their assertions of this being an action to “repeal and replace,” no viable alternative plan has been proposed.
The House votes Friday.
As of this moment, no replacement exists.
Apparently, Speaker Ryan has had his phones cut off because of the volume of calls, so here is his mailing address:
1233 Longworth HOB
Washington, D.C. 20515
Fax: (202) 225–3393

@cazzie Thanks for the update. While I am saddened by this action by all these “compassionate conservatives” I am afraid that the only way 30% of the people here in the US who voted for Trump and the rest of them will ever understand their mistake is to suffer the consequences. Unfortunately, the other 70% of us also have to suffer.

^^That’s what I think. It needs to get really really bad for it ever to really change probably. It already was bad, but people have amnesia. I also think that we had a really good employment rate and unions were stronger for a while there, so a lot of people had health insurance. Then people lost their jobs and the government helped individuals pay cobra. Then ACA. All these bandaids so the majority isn’t traumatized enough to approve single payer. We need to let people (more people) die and lose everything, and be in hospitals for panic attacks after dealing with hospitals and insurers to get the support we need I guess. That’s totally depressing.

I don’t think I would have understood why single payer is important if I hadn’t been chronically ill at a young age. Plus, I have been in a single payer system, so I know what it can be like. I think the average 40 year old hasn’t dealt with the worst of the healthcare system, and the average 65 years old had employment and decent insurance for most of their life that didn’t cost them a crazy amount. Now they have Medicare.

I think a lot has to do with the timing of things regarding our economy and employment rates.

So tell me with all this, why is the USA the greatest country on earth?

^^Why do foreigners always say things like that? My Mexican relatives talk about how they idealized America and never thought anyone lied or stole anything. That officials were never bribed. That everyone was treated fairly and none of the advantages because you knew the right person existed. The idealism boggles my mind.

We, in America, know our country isn’t perfect and bad things happen. 100+ years ago we were one of the few countries with religious freedom and democracies. America was truly a moment of brilliance when it was founded in my opinion. 100+ years ago people came to America fleeing religious persecution and extreme poverty. During the last 75 years we had incredible growth in the middle class, education for everyone, women got the vote, women gained more and more protections under the law. That is being eroded a little.

Now, many countries have large middle classes, education for all, religious freedom, etc. we are not as unique as we used to be, and some countries are doing better than the US in some realms. Most of the countries that are examples to look at right now don’t have many palm trees though. Lol. I guess yours has a few on the west coast.

When you travel around the world aren’t you happy to come home to Canada? Canada isn’t that much different than America in terms of day to day life.

Sorry I misunderstood you @JLeslie. There are a lot of people out there who assume if a person is poor they don’t understand how to keep themselves as healthy as they can.

^^No problem. Thanks for saying so.

Plus, as a separate issue, I don’t think of Mariah as poor anyway, and especially not that she doesn’t know how to take care of herself. I think of her as brilliant, and responsible beyond her years, and I assume she makes a fairly good income, but I have no real idea what her income is.

She mentions that above, here

^^I still have no idea. It’s not like she really defines her salary. It’s irrelevant anyway. I’m not thinking of income when I think of how smart or able someone is. Just Siena some time on fluther and you meet people who are smart, interesting, caring, and a wealth of knowledge, and some of them are having a really difficult time financially. It can happen to anyone.

@SQUEEKY2 So tell me with all this, why is the USA the greatest country on earth?

No one that I know is saying the USA is the greatest country on earth. There are a lot of great countries in the world, and the US is right up there with some of the greatest.

I think some of what I posted above can bear repeating.

Sure, as a nation, politically socially and morally, we have our faults. Our various media outlets make a nice profit reminding us of them.

But it is difficult to find – in all of human history – a greater force for good. For example, the Declaration of Independence; the Constitution and Bill of Rights; Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation; the Thirteenth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth and Nineteenth Amendments; the Land Grant College and Homestead Acts; the transcontinental railroad system; our national parks; child labor laws, Social Security; the National Labor Relations Act; GI Bill; interstate highway system; putting a man on the moon; the Affordable Care Act. Historically, the United States government has been the author of many of the best aspects of our public and personal lives.

I make a very good salary for my age. I am not comfortable disclosing an exact number. I am fortunate that I had parents who put me through college and that I chose a high-income field. Many do not share that privilege.

^^^^ Of course you aren’t. No one would be. I think “I make a very good salary for my age” should be quite enough.

Why do people want to come here? If you are sick and walk into an ER, they’ll treat you.

If you slip and fall on someone’s property, you can sue them for a pretty penny.

If you are pregnant and come over the border, and have the baby on US soil, the baby is now a US citizen. You can then get public assistance, WIC, food stamps and Medicaid for the baby. You won’t be rich by any means but it’s better than what you’ll get in Central America or whatever.

That’s because we have this thing that Central America doesn’t have. It’s called compassion and humanity.

“Men should almost all be neutered/spayed/castrated, to curb their male aggression, and massively reduce violent crimes and rapes. Keep some intect and locked up for breeding purposes.” @ragingloli

I stole this from a prior question (probably that damn testosterone thing) I think this works well here too, don’t you?

@Mariah I don’t think anyone would expect you to disclose your salary.

You seemed to suggest she should, @JLeslie. You suggested she wasn’t specific enough. This comment is what prompted her to post that response.

^^I said it’s irrelevant to me. Her salary is irrelevant, so why would I care what it is. I was it asking her what it is, I said she didn’t state it. You seemed to be saying (before) the poor and Mariah and lumping everyone together.

It’s not like she really defines her salary…” @Mariah felt the need to excuse herself for not defining her salary.

Right. She didn’t define it. She doesn’t need to. It’s irrelevant. You had accused me of judging the poor and Mariah as stupid. We sorted that out though.

I assume she makes a fairly good income, but I have no real idea what her income is.

Oy vey. Ok, how about I apologize for how I worded it and you believe my intention was not to know her salary. I never asked her salary. Nowhere did I ask mariah her salary. It’s just how you are interpreting what I wrote.

No. You just hinted that what she provided wasn’t enough. That’s why she felt to need to explain. Apparently @Mariah interpreted it “wrong” too.

Fine. She interpreted that way also. Now, I’m clarifying what I wrote. Why is this such a big deal?

Because I think it embarrassed her.

^^I embarrassed her for pointing out she read through her bill. I think it’s great she looked over her bill. A lot of people don’t. That was my original point.

Let’s let this drop. I’ll PM @Mariah and apologize for any miscommunication, and if you want to reply once more to me you can have the last word, but I’ll just stop on this Q. You obviously have it out for me here, and I guess you don’t believe me.

Guys don’t worry about it. My feelings were not hurt by either party, k?

At this point it means impeaching Trump.