Is this what people here have meant by saying "PC Culture"?

Don’t have time and patience for the videos :p I’m on my phone so I can’t speed up anyway.

I think “PC” is actually just “abusing racial respect”. It is less about “protecting a certain group of people” than “keeping one individual’s thin skin from being torn”. They either have an ego the size of a mountain or completely forget that people fought for their equality, not superiority. Just because they belong to a group susceptible to hate crime doesn’t mean that they can stand above everyone else. You are black and you commit a crime, then you are responsible to the law like everyone else. They are just too attached to their group that everything that sounds like an insult to that group is an insult to their ego. That’s really pathetic.

In some way, this is another sign of reversed racism, and a good cloak for that. By accusing someone of badmouthing them, they are safe from being accused of hating anyone. They get the chance to stand above the “offender” too.

“PC” is right wing code for “I am mad that I get backlash when I refer to black people as “Niggers”, gay people as “Faggots” and “Dykes”, Jews as “Kikes”, Latinos as “Wetbacks”, and fat people as “Landwhales””.

Quoth Neil Gaiman:
“[PC is] not actually anything to do with ‘political correctness’. That’s just treating other people with respect.”

Which made me oddly happy. I started imagining a world in which we replaced the phrase “politically correct” wherever we could with “treating other people with respect”, and it made me smile.

You should try it. It’s peculiarly enlightening.

I know what you’re thinking now. You’re thinking “Oh my god, that’s treating other people with respect gone mad!”

When I was at Memphis Theological Seminary, I had to refer to God as “she” or my work would be graded down one letter grade every time I did not.

However, when I referred to Satan as “she” (in the famous temptation of Christ in the 40-days-in-the desert)—I got in a LOT of trouble. The only reason more action wasn’t taken against me was because I think too many on the other side would have thought it laughable.

It’s a bullshit term used to disparage. I believe in calling people what they want to be called at any particular time and as @Call_Me_Jay says, treating people with respect.

The implication of the term politically correct is that deep down inside progressives have the same hatred of minority groups as people who are openly bigoted, but in order to gain the political support of minorities, progressives pretend to show undeserved respect. The use of politically correct is demeaning to both minorities and progressives.

I think part of the PC backlash is people are tired of other people being so easily offended. People may know in their own minds that their intention was never with malice, and so they expect that no matter how they say something, people will understand or care that it was without bad intentions. The thing is, the people most outspoken about this are usually hypocrites, because they themselves are easily offended. It’s almost a case of thou doth protest to much.

Generally, I feel it is about respect for others. Each person, or even group, gets to say what is acceptable for themselves. If a woman says she doesn’t want to be called a girl, then don’t use it. If East Asians prefer the term Asian to Oriental, then incorporate that into your vocabulary, but I do think that the minority groups can also be understanding that not everyone is caught up with what is acceptable at any given time, and politely correct someone rather than being instantly offended. If the other, offending, person then is stubborn, and doesn’t care that it’s offensive, then that’s another thing.

Specifically, some white Christians in America are using PC arguments trying to say Muslims and others are savages, because of how they respond to offensive talk or cartoons that would be considered not PC, while the Christians argue they are “secure” in their beliefs and never would respond violently. Some of them feel having to be PC shows how out of control and terrible other people are.

I like, and agree with @Call_Me_Jay ‘s definition

PC = “How dare you call me a racist! In no way did I mean “porch monkey” as a racial slur, so don’t call me racist for using it! I even know black people – like that one at work. Not sure what his name is, probably Jamal or something, one of those black names. I dunno, I don’t really speak to him. But I’ve never called him a “nigger”, so don’t call me racist!”

”@Call_Me_Jay ‘s definition”

Neil Gaiman’s definition. That’s all his work, the quotes are a little confusing.

I like this quote I found in the comment section of the first video…

“Political correctness is facism disguised as manners.”

Just my 2 cents worth here, about political correctness.

In my neighborhood, I hear A LOT of rap music. It tends to be especially blasted at me while I am walking and someone drives up in a car behind me. That’s not music. That’s not freedom of speech. That’s intimidation.

The “music” that plays at all hours has the words “Mutha-fucka” and “shit” almost as part of the beat. Yet if I mention this reality, I am branded “racist.”

The music regularly describes women as “Hos” (whores) and both men and women as “bitches” and expresses regular threats and beratement of violence. “Pussy” “Dick” “Trick” and “Nigger” are constant—and if there is anything other than making sexual threats in the content, it is blaming others on all their problems and expressing the need to solve one’s problems with violence and gunfire (also common).

Violence and genocide against whites, law enforcement, even Jews, features heavily in this music, and is often acted out on the streets.

How much of a societal problem this becomes I’ll leave it up to you. But to even mention these facts of what’s in the music is enough to get one lambasted as a racist—and in some countries you’d be fined or imprisoned for mentioning these things—as a “racist”,

A lot of African Americans in my city (my neighbors, even)—say that Trump “hates black people” and said that Black People were ignorant, violent, had bad schools, etc etc.

When I ask when Trump said this, they usually give an example about what Trump said about conditions in Chicago—and Trump’s promises to bring about jobs and better schools to this blighted, gang-infested city. Hundreds of thousands of homicides occurred while Obama played golf on the Vinyard.

The fact that the percentage of these homicides being rounded up to 100% African American or “black-on-black” crime is not a racist statement. It is a recognition that these particular African American communities need a plan to get out of this cycle of poverty and gang violence. Yet we cannot even talk about these problems without someone saying we are racist.

And it is usually rich, white, privileged class people who are calling us racists. In reality, most African Americans want change in their communities.

One more thing—the word “faggot” is common in rap music, also. No one mentions this.

Ah yes, I always love hearing from old white folks about what the black community thinks and wants.

Are you saying they want gang rape and violence I just described?

If so, YOU seem to be the one who is a tad racist, I interact with the African American community every day. This is where I live. This is most of the people I know,

I’m resisting the urge to drop walls of text on this. I am not familiar with the show but I agree with what they are saying, it’s inline with my opinion. “P.C.” is not about simply being polite. It is about shutting down dialog. “P.C. culture” is this environment of safe spaces, trigger warnings and other “how dare you disagree” methods being erected all over the political landscape, especially at universities.

Several have started and begun to craft responses.

Let me tell you my “credentials”.

I have lived in a predominately African American community in Memphis all my life. I am 52 years old, As a side note (unrelated), most African Americans do NOT live in predominately African American neighborhoods. They are fairly mainstream in all communities.

I have been a guidance counselor in a school that was about 90% African American.

Though I have never served or volunteered in a black church, I have participated in an Angolan missionary church to America (yes—Africans are actually sending missionaries to the United States)—and established an Angolan church here in an area that contains African Americans and “seeker” type whites—mostly white families who move into historic, artsy, or black parts of town.

The Black Muslim groups and the “gangstas” hate us but have no problem coming to us for aid, counseling, financial, or medical needs.

From there, I have also helped Ethiopian (Orthodox) churches get established. There have been Christians in Africa since apostolic times, much longer than Islam (Persians are the ones who started the Slave Trade—Muslims still control the African slave trade but only within Africa now) and Christians (both the original ones and later Missionaries) have a lot more to say and do and help than many of the Muslim, Pan-African, and rich white “liberals” (“P.C. culture—do you identify with this group, Darth?)—that in fact believe they know what “the black community wants”

One more thing—many of you have never even heard what conservatives are saying. You have never heard the other side. That’s TRUE fascism and censorship. Someone TELLS you what to think. You never really heard it for yourself, and would deny others that right.. They show rioters and looters, and you assume they have a cause. Its pretty scary when you have to show up in riot gear and everyone is calling you ‘hate speech’ and is throwing firebombs at buildings.

I only ask for the right to help those who come for help.

I think @yellowdog makes some valid points. I don’t think he should be dismissed out of hand.

Many of my very liberal friends live in places that are so unlike places like Memphis they really have no idea what it’s like there. This applies to race, guns, and other topics.

Thanks, JLeslie.

Just listen to rap music. That’s all I ask. That’s no way to live,

@Yellowdog

I don’t care what your “credentials” are, merely living near/around folks, or even working alongside a few, does not qualify you to speak on their behalf.

@Yellowdog My opinion about the rap music, and using words like niggers and ho’s, is it is a huge mistake! The black community screws itself using that language. They can’t ask other people not to use that language when they use it themselves. Respect begins at home.

Regarding Trump, I do see how his words can be construed as he acknowledging the violence in the ghettos and that he is making a commitment to take action to try to fix it, and I see why other people see it as racist. This is part of the PC problem. Can we talk about it or not? I think part of the problem might be liberals see the cure for the problem as very different than conservatives. I think that’s the biggest issue.

“But rappers say it!” isn’t an excuse.

It just shows that you see black people as “them” and you feel because “they” did something then “we” get to even the score. It’s a thoroughly racist view of the world.

Its a good illustration of conservative values that they think the right to call people ni**ers is a civil rights issue.

The problem with political correctness is that it makes assumptions about what other cultures should find disrespectful without actually bothering to find out what their opinions are (or for that matter even caring).

What’s particularly amusing on this thread is all the PC answers

The problem with the “rappers say ___” line of thought is that rap is music, music is art and art should never have any limits or restraint on what it can or cannot say, nor what language it can or cannot employ.

@Darth_Algar So your saying that child porn is OK as long as its art? Or promoting violence against women is fine as long as long as you do it as song and dance routine.

@Call_Me_Jay The dynamic in Memphis is so different than other places I have lived. I grew up in an extremely diverse area of the country and I wasn’t aware of racism and my parents are very liberal on this sort of thing. I never heard my parents stereotype groups and they had friends of every color and race and it just wasn’t a thing.

When I met my husband he was one of the most nondiscriminating nonprejuduced person I had ever met. He didn’t have any stereotypes in his head, because one I think it’s just not his personality in general, and two he didn’t grow up in America, so he wasn’t very aware of the various stereotypes.

When we lived in Memphis we were thrown by how different it was when it came to race. Many out of staters were bothered by it. We found ourselves thinking things we never thought we would. Stereotypes, frustrations, but the thing is we knew how different it could be, because we had lived differently.

My only point is, you will understand better the point of view if you have lived it, and not be so quick to throw around words like racist, because the word racist shuts down the conversation. Racist is almost as bad as niggers and whores if the person isn’t racist in their heart and mind. The word is thrown around too freely. It’s name calling, and there are real racists out there, and I think save the word for them.

I’m just saying that when a couple of Jews start rapping and calling their own kikes I hope a whole bunch of people come out against that language and song, and I hope it doesn’t get played. Fuck that art bullshit. It is counterproductive, and harms the group.

Racist is almost as bad as niggers and whores if the person isn’t racist in their heart and mind.

Nonsense. Racists have to be told their behavior isn’t acceptable. It took decades to take segregationists and white supremacists out of the mainstream, and now they’re back in.

Conservatives are working very hard to make overt racism acceptable again. We have white nationalists in the White House and on national TV questioning whether Jews are human.

Tolerance doesn’t mean all behavior is equal and we have to respect intolerance. But conservatives are making exactly that claim, and crying “fascism!” when we point out their racism.

This is not a two-sided issue where the truth must be somewhere in the middle.

@JLeslie “I’m just saying that when a couple of Jews start rapping and calling their own kikes I hope a whole bunch of people come out against that language and song, and I hope it doesn’t get played. Fuck that art bullshit. It is counterproductive, and harms the group.”

As a WASP it’s not my place to dictate to a Jew what comes out of their mouth or whether or not it harms their group.

@Call_Me_Jay I live in the land of conservatives. I literally do not know a single racist. This “conservatives are racist” thinking is part of the P.C. narrative you appear to subscribe to. It’s another gimmick just like “check your privilege” that is used to shut down dialog. Conservatives, republicans and centrists are not “racist.” This is another example of why the P.C. left is fucking everything up.

@Darth_Algar So, as a WASP you can tell other WASPs not to use the word kike or nigger, but you won’t tell people who are Jewish or black respectively that they shouldn’t. Do I have that right?

I live in the land of conservatives. I literally do not know a single racist

By the conservative definition of racist: “not wearing Klan robes or lynching anybody at this moment.”

I grew up in suburbia in the north in a heavily Republican area. I know what conservatives are like. I’m a middle-aged white guy and people feel free to vent their racist jokes and opinions, thinking “everyone” (meaning white people) agrees with them.

@Call_Me_Jay I actually agree it should be pointed out when someone displays racist behavior or is saying something racist, but I don’t think it necessarily means the person is racist. So, calling the person racist is name calling. Having a discussion about why what was said or done is unacceptable or offensive or harms a group of people is just fine, and hopefully moves things in a positive direction.

Too many accusations without listening to each other on both sides.

Where you grew up was it very white? Percentages wise? Did you have a large black population where you lived or adjacent to it?

@Call_Me_Jay you knew conservatives like when, 1970? I have not even seen hints of racism among southern conservatives since at least the mid 1980’s. The PC left shouts racism without even considering what the other side is saying. It’s just used to try to steal the moral high ground, it’s another gimmick.

@ARE_you_kidding_me I’m agreeing with a lot of what you are saying, but I can tell you in Memphis as much as I feel and believe people are not racist, there are situations that demonstrate how the races are more divided than I find comfortable. It’s a socio-economic divide more than anything, but many of the conservatives don’t care about helping the problem. In fact they are happy to ignore the problem and just look after themselves. There is an us and them mentality towards the blacks in the inner city. It’s very obvious with the school situation in Memphis and the county. The White county does not want those black Memphis kids in their schools.

I don’t disagree that we should call out racism where it actually exists. Memphis is probably the most extreme example I can think of with that economic divide. Big cities in general, but don’t be deluded into thinking it’s just conservatives. It’s the white middle class including liberals. It’s also got more to do with behavior of lower class than it does with actual racism in most cases. Suburbanites like their false sense of safety and security. They don’t want poor whites either.

^^I agree that its class behavior more than anything, but in Memphis it’s so apparent that the social classes there are quite divided racially. The thing is, it won’t change, at least not very fast, if the white people maintain the status quo. They do use their power to keep it like it is. It’s very tricky. It looks racist on the surface.

@JLeslie

What I’m saying is that I’m not going to presume that a Jew is using the word “kike” in the same manner that my old, Nazi banner flying white neighbor did. Just as I’m not going to assume that a black person is using the word “nigger” in the same way my “I got no problem with black people but I wouldn’t want my daughter bringing a nigger home” uncle does. Reclamation is a thing (like the other day I read about an all Asian-American band named The Slants) and I’m not going to tell someone that they should or shouldn’t have that.

@JLeslie I see the racial divide, there is no way to deny it. It’s rampant, especially in cities. It’s a transient from generations of actual systemic racism. The deeper back people lived during that time the more likely they are to hold racial beliefs, especially if they are deeply conservative but not exclusively. As a late gen-x almost millenial I grew up after the shift. I see racial beliefs that linger in people older than me, even people in their 50’s. I also see older liberals that still think systemic racism is a thing with conservatives, just not the case.

I am 52 years old and live in Memphis and am, of course, white, I have never heard the word “Nigger” said by a white person except old people in rural areas in the 1970s and 80s. It was always a “dirty word” when I was a child—like calling someone a nasty name,

When I was a child, there were racist and ethnic jokes. They provoked laughter but not hate. Gradually we all learned that they were hurtful and learned better. Today, jokes that could be hurtful or racist or even too ethnic have become strictly taboo,

Conservative groups are never racist and, sorry to disagree with Darth and a few others, but never anti-Jewish—most are in fact Pro Israel as the birthplace and culture of Christ and the Holy Land, Most normal white people in churches are active in helping the inner city poor.

what is white genocide?

I have not even seen hints of racism among southern conservatives since at least the mid 1980’s

Conservative groups are never racist

LOL

Like I said, the conservative definition of “not racist” is “not in the Klan”.

“I am not a racist, all my slaves are black.”

“Conservative groups are never racist and, sorry to disagree with Darth and a few others, but never anti-Jewish—most are in fact Pro Israel as the birthplace and culture of Christ and the Holy Land”

Pro-Israel, maybe, but only insofar as they believe that Jews must live in Israel in order for Christ to return. But when I hear one of my “pro-Israel” relatives say “oh, don’t deal with that motherfucker, he’ll Jew you out of your money” I find it hard to believe that person hold any particular fondness for Jewish people.

@Yellowdog When I lived in Memphis there was almost a complete absence of acknowledgement of ethnicity and national background. It was odd to me coming from the Northeast and South Florida. Where I’m from people ask where your family is from and we do joke about some stereotypes, the ones the people themselves joke about that aren’t hurtful, and most often taken as compliments if anything. It felt to me like the South had been racist in the past, and now it has swung way out the other direction when in mixed company, just to be in the safe side. It also seemed like a lot of Southerners were very out of touch with the idea that their families came from another country.

@Darth_Algar The Slants. I do see your point. Although, I personally would not put slanted eyes on the same level as kike. See, we Jews can joke about our noses, and back in the day nose jobs were very common, less common now, because an interesting nose seems more popular now.

I find Asians attractive, especially the women, and so their eyes are not a negative attribute at all to me, it’s just a fact. But, I see how that all gets very tricky very fast. Which word do we deem unacceptable? As I said I try to leave it to the individual or group themselves. Most black peoples agree nigger is not if when said by someone who isn’t black. If that’s the case then I say don’t use it at all. That’s how I gauge it. I would tell them, even in my whiteness, that I think they are making a mistake. As a minority myself, I wouldn’t do it, and I think it’s best not to. I don’t need to be part of the group to identify with being a minority. It’s advice, it’s not about telling them if it’s PC or not.

There certainly are a whole bunch of white liberals out there telling the country what is ok to say and what isn’t. They are out there fighting to change team name, like the Washington Redskins for instance. I’m pretty sure I hear more outcry from white peoples about it than Native Americans. If the Natuve Americans do find it offensive I’m on the side of changing it, I don’t know if they are very offended or not.

@JLeslie

You do realize, of course, that “slant” has long been used as a racial slur against Asians, right?

@Darth_Algar I only know it as a tease about their eyes. Like some people use it to make fun of Asians, which isn’t nice. I also know plenty of Asians who wouldn’t be bothered by it, and Asian comedians joke about it.

I’ve never hear slants used as a word to describe the group. I’ve never heard it used like WOP or Chink or Spic and so on.

@JLeslie

“I also know plenty of Asians who wouldn’t be bothered by it”—I have black friends

“and Asian comedians joke about it.”—Rappers use the N word.

Can I call you a cunt? Are you okay with that.

Anything goes and your feelings are irreverent. So CUNT CUNT CUNT

Does that feel good?

^^Most women aren’t ok with cunt. Plus, I’m not calling anyone anything. I’m the one saying don’t use kike or nigger. Nobody, not even Jews and blacks. WTF? I said I’ve never heard slants used as a slur, I’ve only heard jokes about Asian eyes. If it is a word used in lieu of Asians, then I’d say better not to use it as a band name, and better not to throw the word around.

If someone says cunt cunt cunt I figure they are assholes. Does it feel good? No, but my feelings about the other person being an idiot are way stronger than me feeling badly.

I said rappers shouldn’t use the N word. @Darth said it’s ok if blacks want to use it. I disagreed with him, I think we should eliminate that word except for educational purposes regarding history.

I’m not calling anyone anything. I’m the one saying don’t use kike or nigger.

You’re simply telling us to consider the delicate feelings of those who call people kikes and slants and niggers.

That we need to meet them half way, that being not racist is as offensive as being racist.

No. Fuck that. Conservatives have to be confronted.

What? What halfway? I don’t understand.

I don’t understand.

Clearly. Make an effort.

^^Well, you’re such a sweety aren’t you. I say I don’t understand and your response is to demean me? You will really win hearts and minds with that. Are you saying it’s not ok to ask a question to better understand? Seriously, check yourself. Maybe someone else will explain to me your point. How dare you question my effort. I’m in the conversation aren’t I? One of the best parts of fluther is it is a place to learn. Really disappointing.

And, what the fuck delicate feelings? I said no one should use the words kike or nigger. I’m talking about the feelings of the minority group! The minority group gets to decide what’s offensive to them. Outsiders don’t get to tell them they shouldn’t feel offended if they do. They have the experience of what it is to be them, they have the experience of their people’s history, what their people have been through, they decide.

Let’s take a break from this usual Rural Southern Democrat assault on the Jewish woman (which had to be moderated – ) and let me respond to Darth:

(1) Darth: Ah yes, I always love hearing from old white folks about what the black community thinks and wants.

I never really responded to this. Darth, the way to find out what the black community thinks and wants is to ask them. I live and work .among them Although they are still spoon-fed the lies for votes which democrats have been using since Eisenwower was president (accurately portrayed in the movie Selma), most African Americans DO want less crime, better jobs, and less dependency. They want solid, middle class families and safe places for their children. Blacks are obtaining these things in mainstream society but face many obstacles and have to abandon their culture to obtain them and assimilate into the white culture. But as a distinctive culture and ethnic group, they’d like to retain a sense of who they are and have safer neighborhoods, less poverty, provide for themselves and their families and communities, and less crime.

As for the “old” comment, well, I am old enough to remember history – especially recent history. I am 52 years old and the picture on my icon is me last July. I am old enough to remember when the democrats were the Klan in the rural south (1970s and 1980s), and threatened both Blacks and Jews with burning their homes and businesses. I remember (as you later quote) when Democrats said to never trust a Jew, they’ll “Jew You out of your money.” I am old enough to remember when Campus democrats torched and firebombed and stormed college buildings in the 1970s protests for the legalization of Pot and LSD and other drugs – and was horrified to see that both blacks AND Jews took up the baton of the Democratic party in the 1970s and 1980s.

Today, Democrats are pretending to be the Moral High Ground and say it was the Republicans and not the Democrats who did these things (Slavery, Trail of Tears, anti-civil rights, drugs). They have duped a whole generation of Millennials who were not born yet into believing this. They are again burning and firebombing and rioting as their parents and grandparents did before them. They are working to de-legitimize Israel (whom they have a long and almost secret conspiracy against) insofar as nominating Keith Ellison (Farrakahn’s henchman) to be their next DOC chair.

(2) ME: “Conservative groups are never racist and, sorry to disagree with Darth and a few others, but never anti-Jewish—most are in fact Pro Israel as the birthplace and culture of Christ and the Holy Land”

– Me (Yellowdog) as quoted by Darth Agar

Darth: Pro-Israel, maybe, but only insofar as they believe that Jews must live in Israel in order for Christ to return. But when I hear one of my “pro-Israel” relatives say “oh, don’t deal with that motherfucker, he’ll Jew you out of your money” I find it hard to believe that person hold any particular fondness for Jewish people. – Darth Agar

New Response (Yellowdog): I’ve never heard these views out of a conservative or a republican. It was democrats who were always anti-Jewish and accusing them of their (democrats) economic woes – at least here in the South. The Klan, a Democrat organization, has always run the Jews out of town in the rural South. Most in the U.S. recognize that Israel is Israel out a U.N. resolution and by military conquest. Barrack Obama is the first U.S. leader to want to de-legitimize Israel, our only true ally in the Middle East, The Democrats have now lined up Keith Ellison to be their next chairperson. Fortunately, Trump won this election and the Democrats won’t get to implant their century-and-a-half old agenda.

@Yellowdog So, you are arguing the Republicans are the party who will fight for minorities? You have never heard of republicans being pro-Israel for religious reasons? I’ve gotta say you’re losing me. I’ll say that most republicans in Memphis I know aren’t racist, not by my definition of racism, but they certainly aren’t keen on helping minorities, and many of them do support Israel because they believe its the land of the Jews for biblical reasons, many are waiting for the prophesy to be fulfilled.

You are probably familiar with the school situation there. The county voted to keep the black kids away, they don’t want those black parents voting for people in the county school system, and they basically feel let the blacks sink or swim by their own hand. They butch about paying for “those” children to go to school, and overall think the entire thing is hopeless and all the money in the world can’t fix the problems that community has. That’s their basic take when I talk to the white folk out in the county. They want the black kids to do well, I genuinely believe that, but they don’t see it happening and aren’t going to try to help it.

@Yellowdog You are immensely dishonest to deny that conservatives fought civil rights and they switched from the Democratic party to the Republican party long ago. You have no credibility. Your arguments are worthless.

@Yellowdog “As for the “old” comment, well, I am old enough to remember history – especially recent history.”

Clearly not, as you conveniently ignore the shifting racial-political landscape over the past several decades.

I’m sorry, but anyone who thinks the modern Democrats/Republicans are direct reflexes of their 19th century incarnations is severely misguided. The 19th century Democrats were the conservative party, the Republicans were the more progressive. They switched sides in the 20th century (gradually, but it happened). So the “blame” still rests with the conservatives. It was conservatives/reactionaries who said they’d rather die than let a black child attend a white school (and attacked black students at said schools), conservatives who fought against women’s right to vote, and conservatives who opposed the Civil Rights Act. Were some of these conservatives Democrats? Sure. The Democratic party used to be more conservative, especially in the South. When the Democratic party moved away from that, the South became strongly Republican.

As regards PC, I’ll just provide this example (whether it helps answer the question or not, I don’t know, and I guess I don’t really care): I’m a gay man but I don’t like the word “faggot”. I don’t call myself that, I don’t call other gay people that, and if you call me that, we’ll have a problem. That said, I don’t feel that it is my position to tell other people not to use it among themselves. In general I’m against “context free” analysis of language since language is all about context. I can’t tell someone that they should be offended by something or that they can’t say something. Just respect me and don’t call me that word. And know that since the word is offensive to many (more than other words that mean the same thing), exercise caution with it. If that’s PC, then I support PC I guess.

@DominicY That’s exactly how I feel about PC, but somehow I didn’t communicate well I guess. Although, I did take it one step further that if someone does care that other people don’t use the word faggot, wouldn’t you advise them not to use it among themselves, or at least not within earshot of others? What do you think? If gay friends of yours hate when other people call them faggots, or when people use the word in front of them, don’t you think they would be well advised not to be singing the word in a song, and not be saying it out in public in mixed company?

@DominicY , It is not the names that count so much as behavior that matters. For example, there used to be sodomy laws in several states. The laws did not reference gay people, but they were clearly aimed at them. I thought it would have made an interesting test case if a heterosexual couple tried to get arrested for practicing sodomy.

@JLeslie

Context counts. Context counts a lot. A gay guy using “fag” among his friends like a term of endearment is a bit different from some asshole shouting “die faggot!”, don’t you think?

^^Sure.

Two true experiences of this “Older White Guy”:

A Caucasian friend one-time buddy of mine referred to my wife (fiancée at the time) as “some nigger chick”.

While hanging out with some “African-American” friends at their neighborhood bar, I was casually referred to as “my nigga”.

JLeslie: — The school situation you describe was a hostile takeover, pure and simple. The Memphis City Schools were so bad, their charter was being revoked. Several of its leaders were under criminal investigation. Tens of millions of computers had been stolen, textbooks lost for five or six years, millions of dollars of food missing or destroyed, tens of millions of misappropriated fuds— this on top of leaders who lived like royalty, with expensive vacations, limo services, Rolex watches – the most ostentatious display of corruption imaginable. On top of that,the system was one of the top funded in the nation and was failing on all levels.i They were about to be shut down and go under the auspices of the Tennessee Board of Education.

But when the charter was dissolved, the Shelby County Schools (top rated in Tennessee) took them under their wing. Tnere were those who made the argument that that was the next level of govornment However, they were stabbed in the back by the leaders of the failed/dissolved city school system— a commission was formed thaty basically said the eight seats of the county system couldn’t represent “minorities” and fired them all. Oddly enough, no one in the county system was allowed to even vote in this or their takeover.

So, the failed city school system runs the county now and is now about to lose its charter again. Under much opposition, many of the former county system now run six or seven municipal school systems that were formed— the individual municipalities had to purchase the buildings and organize themselves. This was the only way to save quality education in Shelby County from the corruption, criminal activity under investigation that destroyed the old city school system. To say it was racism is a very strange position, considering that the county had nothing to do with it. It was a takeover, pure and simple.

I tutor in the inner city on a volunteer basis. I was a guidance counselor in the former system but the old corruption order was so mismanaged that only the city police operate in this capacity now—and the schools are run like juvenile detention centers.

@Yellowdog I can tell you that the county was afraid of busing, even way out in Arlington. The county constantly cited Cordova schools now having problems ever since the black families started moving out there. The 8 who were fired must be what some of my friends were talking about, which of course is a legitimate serious concern.

So, let’s see, are we saying the blacks did fuck it up? They can’t help their kids? They are so concerned about being represented as minorities they won’t listen to, or keep people in positions, who really know something about education? They are criminals, and did destroy their schools? Or, was their concern the white people wouldn’t care about their kids enough?

I don’t think my white friends out in the county are racist, but it all looks racist on the surface. They don’t want those black families to have influence on their school system. They don’t want the black kids bringing violence to their schools. It happens to be in Memphis the socio economic strata is very divided by race. I do know people who call Memphis Memfrica, that sounds pretty fucking racist, believe me they aren’t saying that in a positive way. The same people don’t believe all black people are bad, or that they are born bad, and they don’t have a problem with the color of someone’s skin, they work with black people, interact with black people, their kids have black friends. I know to liberals (I consider myself liberal) that doesn’t sound like enough, because just having to say “I have friends who are black” is a trigger for the most liberal of people. I will say, among my peers while I lived in TN, very few people had interracial friendships or marriages. Black and white worked together, but rarely socialized together. It’s the situation there. It’s the most divided I have ever experienced. Closer into the city might be different. I was out in Lakeland.

As you know I no longer live there so I’m now out of the loop on the school situation. However, I was there for the vote for the towns out in the county to separate from the county and raise the sales tax to pay for new schools.

I can’t help thinking more should have been done to fix the situation rather than run away and leave the city still in a bad situation.

@JLeslie “know to liberals (I consider myself liberal) that doesn’t sound like enough, because just having to say “I have friends who are black” is a trigger for the most liberal of people.”

It’s not a trigger, it’s just that it’s almost exclusively used by people to excuse the shit derogatory shit they say about blacks.

^^I’m agreeing with that. At the same time I am saying what sounds racist has nothing to do with the person being black a lot of the time, it has to do with the behavior of the particular subgroup being discussed. Real racists hate all blacks, think they are born bad, and at worst want them wiped off the face of the earth. I’m telling you that people who never had an ounce of racism, when they move to places like Memphis, all of a sudden what they say sounds racist. This is the biggest problem I think with people misunderstanding each other and throwing the word racist around too fast.

I know then people jump to xenophobia, but it isn’t that either, it’s just bad behavior. Stealing computers has nothing to do with xenophobia.

The real problem is socio-economic, it just appears to play out as a race thing, because of the economic circumstance in that part of the country.

It’s really frustrating to watch. For me anyway. Most places I’ve lived race was a complete non issue, and there wasn’t any extreme economic divide among race, ethnicity, national origin, etc. It’s a much better circumstance. I really feel reducing poverty should be the biggest goal. That and helping people with mental illness. A lot of people fail to see that if we all do better it’s better for all of us. You don’t have to help others altruistically, you can do it for selfish reasons to. That’s what I tell people who don’t want to pay tax money to educate other people’s kids, and who don’t want to pay decent wages.

Where do you live? I’m curious.

Although the towns/municipalities that survived the debacle are mostly white, as you know, the former county system was about 80% black and the former city system was about 96% black. It is true that most whites in Shelby county were in the county and the suburban towns, however.

The Memphis Mophia referencs are not racist—that is a sad state of the politics in Memphis. Many of these people are under criminal investigation by the outside, even. There are at least two “mobs” —the Ford family and Willie Herrington’s—both are African Americvan. White people have very little political power in Memphis and hunker in a few independent, long-established suburban towns where there are also a good number of African Americans. Bartlett is about 30% and Millington abouit 50%— Germantown and Collierville have only about 20%.

The “New” Shelby County system has gone from one of the best in the country to again (like the city system that usurped it) on endangered status from mismanagement. There are few programs like band or foreign languages—only in charter schools, run by African American individuals and organizations— and in maybe a few “optional schools” is there any sense of normal education in the former city system

Hey, this is a sore spot with me because many excellent teachers and guidance counselors were defunded and police from the city run the schools now, I still desire to help and do so where I can because the children and families (no matter who they tie to) are not responsible, The inner city is almost a mission field in itself. And unless you are in the trenches, you don’t know anything about it. Its a sore spot with me so I drop the subject on my part at least. You cannot make a career out of education in Shelby County and all help you give must be volunteer,

Not to drag it out, but I just want to say I voted to keep Lakeland in the county. I just saw forming our own district as abondaning the inner city kids, and I didn’t see how that little tax hike would pay for schools for Lakeland either, but that was secondary to me. Places like Bartlett is large enough alread, has schools, and has commercial businessses that bring in tax money to the city. Plus, I felt like we needed to do more to try to help the city kids, at least give it a try.

I also think the disarray of the school system is a leftover symptom of racism in the South. Back during desegregation a lot of whites pulled their children out of the public schools. The white people for generations (I’m generalizing) didn’t care about the public schools, and the whites had the money, power and authority for most of that time. Now, out in the suburbs, there are decent public schools, but those schools are “recent” growth of the suburbs.

I feel the the problem started a way long time ago.

I know it sounds like I’m talking out of both sides of my moth, because I accuse the situation of being born of racism and even still appearing racist on the surface, but I also defend white people who say some of these things as not racist. See, that’s the thing I think northeast liberals don’t get. I’m born and bred northeast liberal, but I’ve lived in other places and I see how complicated it is.

@JLeslie “Where do you live? I’m curious.”

That info can easily be seen on my profile.

BTW: I didn’t say “racist”, I said ” derogatory ”. I know there are plenty of folk who aren’t actively racist, yet still see no issue with lumping blacks (or Hispanics, or Jews, or Asians or whatnot) in as a whole and painting them in the worst brush strokes they can (then using the “I have ___ friends” line to excuse the shit they say).

@Darth_Algar I think a lot of people make “sweeping statements” but only mean the ones who fit the bill. It might be sloppy, but I know I’m guilty of it. When I say ketchup on a hot dog is a goy thing, I know there are some people who aren’t Jewish who agree that ketchup in a hot dog is awful.

And I’d hardly consider ketchup on hot dogs to be a derogatory stereotype.

The thing about municipalities—well—let me say that the issue is crime, not racism.

Many who are able, regardless of their color, race, or heritage, flee to the suburban municipalities. There is FAR less crime, and people have a say-so in the way they are governed, The “Rich Republicans” see the inner city as a sort of mission field. The rich mostly-white liberals live closer to the inner city, usually in artsy places, but definitely maintain their big houses and churches and private schools. There is a class of middle- and low-income millennials who live in and near the bad areas—once they were sort of a Bohemian class but now they’re sort of a politically independent Mosaic culture.

But crime and safety are why people live in the suburbs. Not perception, not racism, but safety for their families and freedom to govern themselves as they want to live.

@Darth_Algar Because you don’t know any better.~ Lol.

But, seriously, I’m just saying sweeping statements are made good and bad as a short cut, because if you’re in the conversation with people you know, you know they know. I have a girlfriend who is the most liberal woman you could meet. A product of the hippie 60’s. I know her, she meets everybody as an individual. I can’t think of her stereotyping groups negatively, but when she talks about the Hispanics where she works, people could easily accuse her of being a bigot.

@Yellowdog Thats right. It is about crime most of all. Safety.

Then it snowballs.

Crime, schools, housing, the tax base, etc. etc. Then eventually the crime starts moving out to the burbs too.

Cities like NY and Chicago are so different than Memphis and Detroit, because in places like NY and Chicago it’s so diverse and even though there are some bad pockets, overall there are miles of good neighborhoods where crowds of people are every day.

We miss Memphis, don’t get me wrong. We really liked it there, but it is the least safe I have ever felt living somewhere.

@JLeslie “Because you don’t know any better.~ Lol.”

Like you, apparently, don’t know any better about the term “slant”?

As for your friend – if she’s making derogatory statements about Hispanics then people are right to call her on it.

Seriously, if people are calling your statements racist/bigoted then perhaps, rather than getting defensive, it’s time to reexamine what you’re saying (or at least your delivery of it). If, for example, you’re about to make a statement that begins with “not to sound racist but…” then what you’re about to say is probably going to sound racist. Take a moment and think about what you’re about to say.

^^I agree with you. Like I said, if it offends people then we need to listen. My point is we don’t have to jump to assuming people are racist, and be shouting it from the roof top before we ask them their intent or what they mean by what they are saying. Like I said, people can be sloppy with how they word things, or ignorant. Once shown their mistake, then it’s up to them to make the correction.

My friend doesn’t say anti-Hispanic things. What she does is complain about how they speak Spanish all the time at work, leaving her out, and how she is sick of it. So much that she sometimes wants to look for another job.

Anyway, there are people who would hear her bitching about the Spanish, and accuse her of being a bigot, or might overhear it and assume the wrong thing about her.

It’s common practice in Florida to use English at work, unless you are working with a Spanish speaking customer, or in a private conversation on your break obviously you can do what you want. These girls don’t do that, and the management doesn’t require it. Even outside of work we always try to use the language that the entire group knows.

Where she is it’s very very Spanish speaking. It’s probably close to 50%, I don’t know for sure. Other parts of the county it’s way over 50%.