Do you think rape is worse than murder?

Rape can murder a persons soul, murder just murders the body, so in many ways, yes.

A person can recover from rape. There is no recovery from murder.

I fail to see why this is a contest.

Right @Coloma. But, depending on what happens and the circumstances, it doesn’t automatically murder a person’s soul. Horrify, traumatize, yes. That’s why I say there are so many different facets to rape. Just one word can’t cover it all. A child being raped is very different from a grown woman being raped.

I agree with @Hawaii_Jake. Very few crimes surpass taking someones life. But I will add that I view rape and murder as equally heinous and should both carry similar punishments.

I agree. Rape is so shitty though. I mean women have cried “rape,” when there was none.

@Dutchess_III true, but I’m pretty sure a lot of victims of heinous, violent rape would rather have been murdered than to cope with the aftermath. I would. While rape is rape there is still varying degrees. Date rape using a substance to knock out the victim while horrible is not going to be the same as being tied up, beaten, gang raped by 4 men and violated with a BBQ fork.

I’m sure that for some of them it’s true. But I don’t know how you can speak for all of them. Being raped by my friend’s husband isn’t the same as being gang raped and violated with a BBQ fork. Does it feel shitty? Yeah. Would I’d rather be dead now? No.

@Dutchess_III Right, it is going to be a very unique situation depending on the circumstance and the victims mental and emotional and spiritual health as well. Some people survive horrific things and others collapse from far less. No telling.

Exactly. That’s why I had to disagree with the blanket statement.

@Dutchess_III I didn’t make a blanket statement, I said ” a lot” not all.

Yes.
I’d rather be offed than being treated like an object and humiliated for someone else’s fun.

Rape is worse.

For good or bad, when murder is done, the victim is dead and will not feel anything going forward.

Rape is never done. The person remembers it, feels it, suffers from it for the rest of her life.

^ Or his life. Just had to say that after being embroiled in a sexist debate in another thread.

No.

@Coloma Sorry for the confusion. I meant that is why I disagreed with the original blanket statement the Jelly made that rape is worse than murder.

@elbanditoroso There are different levels to it. I have never been raped, but I’ve come close. If it had happened, I honestly don’t think I’d rather be dead now. Would you rather be murdered than raped, yourself?

@Sneki95 This never occurred to me to ask before, but are you male or female? I always assumed female for some reason.

I do not because it implies that rape victims are better off dead, and many would disagree with that. Victims of rape and abuse may take pride in their ability to live their lives despite what happened to them.

That’s a very, very good point @DominicY.

@Dutchess_III I’m female.

Generally speaking murder is worse.

I think morality and measures of suffering and terribleness are relative and subjective. One person could assert in both directions from different perspectives without self-contradicting. Also each actual case involves a lot of context, which can also greatly effect how horrible an act is from various perspectives.

I’ve known people who said if they were ever raped, they would kill themselves.

I’ve known someone who asked her attempted rapist attacker to please put down the knife, and it caused him to choose to run away rather than go through with the attack. It turns out that before that he had raped and killed multiple others.

I’ve known many people who were raped and went on to live extremely well and happily.

I’ve known parents who were ready to murder to avenge rape of their children, and some people have.

I’ve known people who murdered, and who are now extremely trustworthy people.

I think there are many justifiable homicides which are sometimes called murder, but sometimes I wouldn’t think that were the best way to interpret that.

There are also many people who have gotten away with murder who should not have.

And on and on… I think the morality and horribleness always comes down to specifics, but even in specific cases, trying to weigh relative horribleness is subjective.

I think it’s a question that every person can only answer for themselves. Some would rather be dead, some wouldn’t just deal with it. I would just deal with it. I certainly wouldn’t want to leave my children and grandchildren because of the humiliation and embarrassment of what had happened to me, thorough no fault of my own.

Yes. Murder ends any psychological impact.

Rape bad. Murder worse.

For the dead person, anyway. What about kids and families @kritiper? After you’re dead you don’t even have a chance to recover.

A rapist might be more evil than a murderer. There are sometimes legitimate reasons to use violence. There is never a reason to have non-consensual sex.

But for the victim, of course murder leaves you with no ability to recover whereas that isn’t necessarily true of rape. But when you’re dead, you don’t suffer either. Some people might find death more merciful than being a trauma survivor.

Very subjective.

@Dutchess_III
“For the dead person, anyway. What about kids and families…”
You didn’t mention any other people. The question you asked deals with the victim, not the victim’s close ones.

I was talking to @kritiper.

To clarify. I think it’s a worse crime. It’s certainly subjective, as far as details. One would probably rather be shot in the head,than raped every day. One would probably rather be raped once,than tortured to death.

The punishment is where the opinion originates ,as far as my statement. If someone raped someone, I would want them to receive the maximum punishment allowed by the law.

The tricky part ,is what someone considers rape. And the “rapist’s” intentions.

I was in a long term relationship with a girl once,and one of our rules,was no insemination (saying that as PC as possible.)
We didn’t use condoms(latex allergy),and she wasn’t on birth control. So whoever was on top was responsible for the rule. If I were on top,I pulled out. If she were on top, I would tell her when I was close enough to get off of me.

One afternoon, she was in cowgirl position. There was no way for me to stop. I told her. She had about 45 seconds,time to separate. She just kept going,and “forced” me to climax inside of her. Then she “finished. ” and dismounted me. I felt like it was a form of rape. I had never forced her to receive my sperm, because we had an agreement. So,she did what she did “without my consent.”

Should she be in prison for that? I don’t think so, but it was, like I said, to me, a form of rape.

Like many issues,it’s not so black and white.

I suppose I was ,again, not as carefull with my wording, or at least not detailed enough. As I was the jelly I believe that @Dutchess_III is referring to.

In the context of my question about rape in general, I stand by my words. In this thread, I see that statement as too vague…

Well, you could have gotten her off, so no @MrGrimm888. Unless you’re using the old, “I’m a man. I can’t help it,” excuse.

Someone very close to me was raped, 20 years later and she has never been the same. If I ever find out who did it, I will be a murderer and I’m being completely serious.

Well, @MrGrimm888 thinks he was raped. I’m sure he’s never been the same since. I’m sure he has nightmares about it.

@ARE_you_kidding_me I am sorry. I regret making that comment. It’s like I was down playing what happened to the person who was very close to you. I’m sorry. It’s a traumatic, horrible, loss-of-control, helpless, violent experience. I am just grateful, and lucky, I never had to face it.

@Dutchess_III Kids and families?? (@Sneki95 was right on track!) I was talking about the victim who has no further concept of kids and families after death. For the living there would be no-win consequences both ways so the addition of kids and families to the subject is moot.

So, you think rape is worse than murder @kritiper?

I’ve been raped. I’ve never been murdered. I am thankful to be alive but, questions like these trigger me. If you have never been raped you will never truly understand what it feels like to experience it. To read some of these comparisons is very hurtful. Such as date rape not being comparable to getting gang raped.

This question has brought an awful lot of terrible memories back to the surface. This pain can be swept under a rug, but it never goes away for good.

@Dutchess_III . I said it was a “form” of rape,as it was not an act of mutual consent. Once a partner starts saying no,or get off of me does it not cross into that territory? I might have had to pay child support for 18 years. It was a big deal to me.

I was simply attempting to contribute to your thread,because you asked me.

I see now it was just a ploy to demean me. Thanks….

@Dutchess_III Who for? Rape would be worse since the victim has to live with what happened, present and future tense, and the family of the victim has to put up with the victim’s psychological problems that result, present and future tense. If the victim was murdered, the family only has to accept what happened, past tense, and move on with their lives.

@kritiper I think it most cases it is very hard for family members to move on with their lives if someone they loved has been murder. I wouldn’t want to hazard a guess as to which is easier to deal with in any specific case.

@McGrimm888 While what happened to you was unpleasant or manipulative, it in no way can be compared to rape which is violent, forcible and unasked for intercourse. You both were rolling the dice by not using condoms and something like that was inevitable although I agree she acted in bad faith.

It seems like a specious question to me because there are so many variables in any case.

*murdered

@janbb I have a sister who was raped years ago. I can only base my opinion on what happened to her and how she has held our family somehow accountable for it, including myself.

@kritiper Not trying to invalidate your experience just saying I don’t think we can judge an either/or – each case is its own. I’m sorry this happened to your sister and your family.

@MrGrimm888 If all a woman had to do to stop a rape is roll over and shove the guy off of her, then hold him down by dint of her superior strength, as was your option, then maybe knock him out so she could escape, there would be a lot less rape. So no. It wasn’t rape. You weren’t helpless. You weren’t forced to do anything against your will.
Wait…maybe she was stronger than you and held you immobilized, maybe with her hands wrapped around your throat, clamping down tighter when you resisted, slowly choking you to death.

It is a highly subjective and highly individualized situation, there is no one size fits all. So many factors come into play. The victims original state of mental and emotional health, the degree of trauma involved and the X factor of resiliency, something psychologists still do not understand. Why some can survive and go onto thrive and others crumble under much less trauma.

@janbb Well, everybody is entitled to their own opinion… Not saying you’re wrong… Just sayin’...
@Coloma had a good answer. And it could apply to all who the victim might come into contact with or be affected by.

@kritiper Which was the same point I was making in different words.

It’s always those different words that get us into trouble huh? Oh, ‘communication’ .lol

@Dutchess_III . Again I said, that I thought it was a form. I was attempting to convey the many variables that exist in regards to what people consider rape.

Again , your double standards are in full swing. By your own logic,if someone doesn’t “fight hard enough” they weren’t raped. Can you imagine the flashback I would get for saying “well all you had to do was run,” or “you could’ve fought harder” to a female rape victim?

I know one of my half/sisters was raped repeatedly by her father,for years. She often just let it happen, to keep him from her younger siblings. Your logic implies that this was not rape. Many times,the person eventually stops fighting her/his attacker. That doesn’t mean that they were giving consent.

In the position I was in,I didn’t have leverage to simply roll over. By the time I realized what was about to happen, it was too late. I did eventually wiggle out from under her,but not until it was too late. I suppose I could have punched her in the nose… She later apologized, and we talked about it. Her apology was an admission of guilt. She didn’t run out of the woods and hold me down, no. But it was not an act of consent.

Did you ever watch the movie where Demi Moore forced herself on Michael Douglas? (Yes, I know it was a movie. ) He could have physically gotten out of the situation, but he just said no a lot. In the end, that was proven to be rape in court.

I’m not crying for empathy. I was just bringing up something that happened to me. I felt that it was relevant to the thread. As far as others were mentioning the grey nature of the word rape.

The fact that you would make fun of me for a situation where I felt a sexual act occurred without my consent makes you sound just as bad as the men you describe in your unfortunate stories. I know you have PTSD from your experiences, and I’m sorry they happened to you. If I were a stranger close by you when they happened, I would have tried to help. I have to throw men out of my venues all the time for being inappropriate, so I understand how men can be.

If you want to give feedback on one of my responses, feel free. If you’re goal is simply to insult me, or make fun of me, please refrain.

@janbb . We weren’t using condoms because I have a latex allergy. We tried multiple latex free condoms, but they weren’t effective.

And I disagree that violence is required to define rape.

@janbb Sorry. Couldn’t tell.

No, violence isn’t required. But some threat of something is. Well, even at that, if you use a drug to render the person unconscious that’s rape. But if you’re really able to stop it, and stop it easily, but don’t…what is that?

Not all men are comfortable getting physical with women. In my case ,the angle I was laying, I was on a chair that was laid back. She was straddling me. There were arms on the chair, kind of locking me in. I would have had to push her up ,and off of me to the floor,probably hurting, or injuring her. I repeatedly said stop,get off me. She always had before, for 3 years.

In Michael Douglas’s case, Demi was his boss,and he was also caught off guard,and unsure about how to handle the situation.

If you’re able to stop it but don’t, I don’t know what to call it. I couldn’t hurt her,I loved her. I just let it happen I guess…In this case the ‘threat” was how I would feel if I hurt her. I don’t know….

Consent can be withdrawn at any time and if the other person then continues then that is assault. You don’t have to attempt to physically fight someone in order for your situation to be considered assault, although this argument is used to cast doubt on both male and female victims of assault (the good ol’ “did you fight back?” question). I’m really sorry to hear about your experience @MrGrimm888.

Thanks @Mariah . I’m not emotionally scared,but it kind of changed the way I felt about her,and for 5 months I was worried about the implications of us having a child. We are not together anymore.

I agree with you @Mariah, that you don’t have to physically fight someone in order to show you tried to prevent the rape. I mean, gosh. There are a lot of reasons a woman may opt to not fight back, including the threat of death. But if you could easily stop the person, physically, with no real concern about being hurt even worse yourself, don’t you think most women in assault cases would do that, and walk away?

Why were you worried for 5 months, @MrGrimm888?

@Dutchess_III . This particular girl played lots of mind games with me. She repeatedly took advantage of my trust,and love for her. It wasn’t until after we broke up that I fully understood the depth of her countless deceptions.

Whatever grey area the incident of which we were speaking about, I can opine that she raped my heart, and soul, by the time she was done with me.

A common ground you and I both share, is a lack of overall trust in the opposite sex… And with good reason.

I don’t mistrust the entire opposite sex. Just the ones I don’t know, and the ones who have proven themselves untrustworthy.
I trusted every man I ever dated, and I trust my husband.

Just for the sake of few minutes enjoyment one is ruining other person’s life. The rape victim will die everyday because of the act which done to him/her.
Murder is self defying crime. Here if someone get’s murdered then it affect the family of the late victim.
There was a case in 2012 Delhi, India where few men raped a girl and later murdered her. What could you call that? Which was most cruel action- rape or murder?

Murder.

Yes