Does "Right" and "Just" (justified / Justice served) equate?

I suppose it’s all relative. I mean there’s jaywalking or the Wall st mortgage fraud that nearly collapsed the world economy.

I cannot see anyway that one can “sneak around the rules of the law” and not cheat or harm themselves or some innocent in the process. It is why we have laws and rules in the first place.

If we can evade or sneak around the rules or the law and not harm any innocent person—are we justified?

Yes.

In my opinion, if there is no victim, there is no crime. I don’t give a fuck how many old white dudes think they’re saving me from something by banning me from altering my own consciousness with marijuana or psylocibin. I don’t do these things anyway, but I should have the right to do so if I choose, without fearing the government might put me in jail to save me from making a reasoned and informed decision on how I would like to experience my life for an evening.

There’s a law stating that if I cannot afford to see a doctor to be prescribed medicine that is available over the counter in another country (the exact same medicine. It’s ridiculous) I am breaking the law if a friend mails it to me. Sure the medicine allows me to stand on my own two feet without crying in pain after 15 minutes, but that’s not important. We have to make sure that I see a doctor and be diagnosed with a pre-existing condition so I can be never eligible for heath coverage ever. That’s important to the law.

Fuck stupid laws. Break them every day.

I would say that I “circumvent,” or “bend” the law frequently. Other times I break it it like tempered glass.

I would say that the law doesn’t always work for anyone except the lawyers who made the laws to keep themselves in constant need. Sometimes, they create laws that give them job security.

I’m not even going to delve into the privatization of prisons. It’s really a shame that the US has gone crooked in SO many ways.

I would however, recommend that you abide by the law. Certainly, there are many layers of morality involved. But breaking the law can have consequences that are worse than just going with the flow.

I wonder @Yellowdog , if this thread’s origin lies with your repeated frustrations with your GF’s old roommate’s refusal to relinquish properties said to belong to your GF. If you have grown tired of the litigious process, or it’s conclusion, I would say let it go…

Too often, the law will catch the person trying to set things right.

We have a saying where I am from – “charge it to the game. ”

Unless you are rich, the law will unlikely work to your advantage. Cut your losses,and enjoy your life. Hopefully karma will avenge the parties wronged. If you are religious, then you already know the right answer for you.

“Are you justified? ” That’s up to your personal ethics, but those won’t hold up in court.

Good luck with whatever is troubling you.

Peace n love.

@Seek Simple solution to your dilemma…stop breaking the laws and they will cease to exist.

@Seek . Is correct to a degree. My only complaint is that I would not declare it on social media i.e. Fluther.

Some of these “responses” could be used as evidence in a court of law, under certain circumstances.

I’m not advising lying to law enforcement. But to be very thoughtful, and deliberate in your statements.

@Cruiser . With all due, and growing, respect to you. I think @Seek has some thoughts that many of us feel, justifiably(IMO) about law /enforcement. Including myself (as you probably know, I’m a LEO.)

But you (@Cruiser ) have a valid point. At least logistically. And probably morally, to others.

I think it all boils down the the “life isn’t fair” saying.
A good example would be my present financial situation after losing my work and life savings in the recession. I have always been, what would be considered, a “model citizen.” I have never been in trouble with the law, committed a crime, lied to, cheated on, or otherwise harmed another or compromised my internal code of morality.

However…that said, now, I am working for cash under the table and while I am not earning thousands and thousands evading taxes you bet your fucking ass if I can earn a few thousand extra a year and not report it I am damn well going to capitalize on any opportunity to do so. This is about survival now and the fucking government has gotten more than enough from me all these years. I’ve played the game for decades and now it is game over and I don’t feel one, tiny, blip of guilt. Show me the money! lol

@MrGrimm888 I not aware you were a LEO….Respect. That said, I have many reasons to not trust the average beat cop but that does not mean I do not respect them and the laws they say I allegedly I broke. A fully functioning society that you I and @Seek have to live in requires a lot of half assed laws we may have issues with that keep our ship on an even keel.

@Cruiser “I cannot see anyway that one can “sneak around the rules of the law” and not cheat or harm themselves or some innocent in the process. It is why we have laws and rules in the first place.”

Really? That’s pretty amazing to me, unless you just mean by definition that not following the law is literally to “cheat” by definition.

Suppose it’s 2am and you are standing alone on the sidewalk of an open street that’s well lit with no parked cars and no one at all in sight, but there are signals and crosswalks. If you cross the street without going to the corner and waiting for the Walk light, you’re technically jaywalking. Is this harming someone?

@Zaku It is all on your own conscience. I will never forget while on a student exchange and walking our way back home at 2 AM and looking both ways I did what I always do at a cross walk especially when there probably had not been a auto in the last 2 hours I stepped off the curb to cross the street and was abruptly yanked back by my German student sponsor who gave me the meanest of mean looks…. “you dumpkopf” Seeing the red do not cross light….we stood there dutifully and waited for the green light despite the fact I could have played Twister in the middle of the street. Again…we would not have these laws we have if no one did stupid douche things. In all honesty, I have broken more laws than I obeyed though as I get older I get less bolder.

Not always. Some times people aren’t found guilty of a crime, when they should be, and vice versa. We might say “justice” was done, but the right thing wasn’t done.

Nobody uses the cross walks around here! I love this town though. There was an intersection in a residential section of town. 2 opposite sides had stop signs, the through street didn’t. A kid started crossing the through street. There happened to be a car at both stop signs and two cars approaching each other on the through street. All 4 of us stopped in our tracks, throwing a protective barrier around the kid, until the kid was safely across. Mom was with me. She chuckled and said, “Only in this town!”

@Cruiser Funny story but I’m not sure what the moral is for you. Would there have been an impact on your conscience if you’d jaywalked? Or would the German have been negatively impacted by witnessing your crime? If the German freaked out about it and had a panic attack, who would be morally responsible for that?

The moral for me is that it reminds me of a rule-bound German exchange student I knew whom I thought was a colossal fool for relating to rules the way he did, and that you guys wasted some time that night for no good reason. Meanwhile in cities in Italy, people ignore most traffic rules and just stay alert and avoid hitting each other while crossing the street whenever they can and swirling and knitting cars and people going in multiple directions through each other and so on.

When I travel back and forth between Europe and the US, and especially between Italy or France and the US, I notice that there is a vast difference in how people are treated. In Europe I tend to feel I’m being treated as an actual adult who is mostly responsible for his own actions and well-being. I find it quite refreshing. On returning to the US (especially in airports and airport security) by comparison I feel like adults are largely treated as children, and the authorities are like poorly-educated child crossing-guards who are supposed to lay down a lot of authority to keep everyone safe and controlled and subservient.

@Yellowdog As far as I understand your situation I would pursue things legally. Breaking the law could get you into a lot of trouble you don’t want or need regardless of the rights and wrongs of the case.

I could be mistaken, but I don’t quite think the thread starter is merely talking about jaywalking or smoking a bowl.

It started when I realized that people have stolen or defrauded me out of about 3,800 dollars over the past two years, and the law hasn’t provided much help However, if I took matters into my own hands or struggled doing things the rught way, I could get in a lot of trouble or a lot of debt. II am learning that the best way is to bilk out of people what is mine by less conventional methods…I agree that drugs shoulb’t matter as long as no one is harmed in the process of attaining them or using them/

@Cruiser . As I said, you were correct in your logic.