Suppose for a minute that Trump is right and that Obama did wiretap Trump. What would Obama's motive have been?
I don’t believe the lunatic for a second.
But suppose it were true. What would Obama’s motive have been? What good would it have done to the administration?
I could see a possible (maybe) advantage to Clinton, but not to Obama. And I don’t see Obama passing intelligence to Clinton even if it were true.
My guess is that the FBI was tracking something criminal – like espionage by one of Trump’s advisors. And Trump being caught was just a happy coincidence.
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The motivation would have been the same as if there was a wiretap under a warrant: trying to get evidence of treasonous acts.
I don’t believe it either but assuming it happened It could have been to investigate reports of Russian involvement in election tampering and illegal business activities on a federal level: public corruption, multi-state fraud, organized crime, etc.
@elbanditoroso The same motive he has always had for everything. Destroy the opposition! Whatever it takes.
Why???!!!
What was his reasons for spying on Germany, and France, and American citizens? Refresh me on that, and maybe it will clear up the Trump issue.
Obama seems to just enjoy some voyerism.
I’m surpeised that you wouldn’t see the motive. It’s not necessary to find evidence of wrong doing but only to undermine the Trump candidacy/presidency. Trump was promising to undo most of Obama’s agenda and anything Obama could do to undermine that effort would benefit him. All this crap about Trump involvement with Russia has no basis in fact but puts a cloud over the new administration. That is the purpose and strategy for all this stuff. If they can distract everyone, it makes it harder for Trump to enact his agenda. It is working to some degree. Time will tell how effective it is over the long run.
It makes more sense to ask why Trump would accuse his predecessor of serious misconduct without any evidence.
A genuine belief that Russia was attempting to buy the US presidency? Something that Trump seems determined to prove true.
@Jaxk Trump requires no cooperation in undermining his agenda. There is no obstruction you can name that will ever compare with himself. While the motive might certainly exist for Obama to sic the clandestine intelligence community on Trump’s phone lines, if Trump’s lines were tapped, you can bet your ass that It was a FISA court order behind it, and there is ABSOLUTELY no way ANYONE is going to find Obama’s fingerprints on this. The man knows the law and unlike the current President, he’s just plain smarter than that.
In view of this Russian thing, as well as the sleazy crowd circulating through Trump’s hotel, it certainly makes sense that phones might be tapped LEGALLY. But it will not have been Obama’s idea.
@stanleybmanly – I would agree that it is unlikely that Obama would leave any trail of his involvement but just like the arguments that Putin was personally involved with the hacking of the DNC, nothing happened in his administration that he didn’t personally approve. I have no idea if Trump Tower was under electronic surveillance or not but if it was, Obama knew about it and approved of it.
Does anyone believe what Trump says? He lies over half the time. Instead of making things up, Trump could have just asked FBI director Comey, who has since said that there is no record of any such wiretap. The president can’t just simply order a wiretap. He has to get official approval from FISA that the wiretap is in the best interests of U.S. security. If FISA approved, then Trump is really in serious trouble. For Trump, the lesser of two evils is that there was no wiretap and that he was just lying (or getting news from Breitbart, which is essentially the same thing) as usual.
@LostInParadise – I get that Trump is a liar and a con-man.
Why does his administration push this crap?
@Jaxk Obama’s knowledge or approval is irrelevant. A FISA court order is like the weeds growing in my yard, I need not initiate their growth. I can certainly watch their progress, and perhaps even put an end to them. My point is that if there were “weeds” in Trump towers, Obama’s knowledge or approval is irrelevant. Trump and others may assume a government wiretap the work of Obama, while the overwhelming likliehood is that cozying up to the Russians is going to get your phones bugged.
Oh, please! Was Angela Merkel conspiring with Russia? Were French Presidents hangin’ with Putin? Obama had NSA doing the old McDonald’s farm on phones… here a wire tap, there a wire tap, everywhere a wire tap…
Why do you think it was Obama telling the NSA who to tap?
There is absolutely no evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. Nonetheless, the controversy continues fueled by the MSM. The Obama administration has shown that bending/breaking laws has never been a deterrent to them, IRS, Fast and Furious, and so on. If you are surveiling a political opponent, that seems to be a big deal, FISA not withstanding.
@Jaxk There is absolutely no evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.
You are disregarding admitted involvement/conversations between Russian officials and Sessions, Frank, Manafort, and Page,
There is more to this story as this wire tapping Trump is insinuating was reported on in mid January by the BBC that gives legs to the FISA request by the FBI in October was granted 10 days before the election. Allegedly they found no evidence of Russian illegal activities but the FBI kept monitoring Trumps team members. So all this was known in January, the question I have is why is Trump making a big deal about this now?
Also I don’t get why there is so much attention about Trumps team meeting with Russia before the election. Why is no one reporting about Hillary’‘s team members meetings with Russia before the election?
@Cruiser The attention is because they lied about it happening!
If they had said, “yes, we did have a conversation, but it was not substantive” no one would care.
@Cruiser The attention is focusing on Trump because it is alleged that the Russians wanted to get him elected and were helping him do so. The Russians didn’t want Hillary in the White House and the meetings you are referring to took place years ago anyway.
Also the Republicans changed their platform to sandbag Ukraine after meeting the Russian ambassador during the convention.
@flutherother No that is not the meetings I was referring to. I have read reportings of people on Hillary’s campaign team having phone call meetings with heads of state including the Russians. It’s what I expect them to do ahead of time. I do not have a problem with it at all.
@Call_Me_Jay – You’ve got to show more than just meeting the Ambassador to show collusion. Hell he met with everyone in Washington. He visited the Whitehouse 22 times. Nancy Pelosi said she never met the guy but we have a picture of her having dinner with him (why did she lie). This is a tempest in a teapot.
@Jaxk You said there was no involvement with the campaign and Russia.
Stand by your words or admit a mistake. I’m not playing your weasel game by addressing your shifting goalposts.
There are just too many connections between Trump and his staff and the Russians. Trump’s praise of Putin amid the DNC hack is rather peculiar. Trump has not once criticized Russia for the hack, and in fact spoke of easing sanctions. It is not just that Sessions met with the ambassador. The Attorney General lied under oath. Have we gotten so used to lying on the part of Trump and his team that we can just shrug it off? There is something about all this that is not adding up and demands a thorough investigation.
@Call_Me_Jay – I stand by my statement that there is NO evidence of collusion by the Trump administration. The only thing you have shown is that the Russian Ambassador has met with officials in the normal course of business. That is not collusion. If it were, the Obama administration and democrats in general would be just as guilty. I don’t intend to play your smoke and mirrors game either.
@LostInParadise Just like when in 2012 Obama on a hot mic leaned in towards Medvedev and said to him how after the election he would have much more flexibility.
”As he was leaning toward Medvedev in Seoul, Obama was overheard asking for time — “particularly with missile defense” — until he is in a better position politically to resolve such issues.”
“I understand your message about space,” replied Medvedev, who will hand over the presidency to Putin in May.”
“This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said, expressing confidence that he would win a second term.”
“I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” said Medvedev, Putin’s protégé and long considered number two in Moscow’s power structure.”
I just wonder if this “flexibility” meant standing on the sidelines and doing nothing while Russia steamrolls into Ukraine.
@Cruiser Not ‘just like’ at all, of course Obama discussed things with the Russians that was part of his job. The Trump dealings are of a different nature and took place before Trump was elected.
There might be room for cutting Trump a break except for the now undisputed fact that the Russians were hell bent on tilting the election in his direction. I have no doubt that all of this Russia business would have been put out there months prior to election day had anyone thought there was a chance in hell that Trump might be elected. The crucial point for me is not so much the issue of Trump’s possible collusion with the Russians, it’s more about his reaction to the allegations, coupled with his subsequent handling of the mess. There isn’t a thing that he has done which has not aggravated his predicament and further entangled him in controversy. Things have reached a stage where Trump can’t order a pizza delivered minus extensive fact checking from the other end of the line. The gulf between his declarations on ANY matter and observable reality is now so pronounced and ROUTINE that the task of discerning his very thoughts or intentions is beyond problematic. What can he say, that an objective individual might accept as the truth?
Hasn’t anyone but me noticed that this guy has been up 24 hours per day for at least the last 18 months? He’s all over the place on the News all day long, then tweets all night long. WTF? ,
You know what I would suspect if one of my patients did that? I would immediately suspect substance abuse. Coke or Meth. His constant nasal sniffing and rubbing his nose during the entire campaign was just one of many clues. Combine that with his wild, erratic accusations representing obvious breaks with reality such as the non-existent crowds at his inauguration, his lack of concentration, his acceptance of “alternative facts” as facts, his paranoid accusations of “fake news” coming out of every mainstream outlet except FOX and OAN, his summary dismissal of his own serious statements and acts of disrespect against American minorities and women, including his pussy grabbing. And now comes another paranoid tweet regarding the unlikely and illegal tapping of his phone by the former resident of the White House.
Fuck’n A. What does it take before somebody finally grows some balls, tackles this sonuvabitch and forces him to piss in a test vial?
If he were an airline pilot, this would have happened months ago.
Your suspicions certainly sound plausible, but even if they aren’t, there cannot be any doubt that there is something seriously ajar in his functioning as a RATIONAL President, and as the weeks draw out the question of ’‘what to do about it?” grows ever more essential to the national conversation.
If Obama did wiretap Trump, then there are two possible explanations for the current situation we are in.
1. Obama failed to find any damaging information which is why this is the first we’re hearing about it. Then got rid off all the evidence.
2. Obama did find damaging information and has been waiting for the right time to leak it. And got rid of all the evidence.
@stanleybmanly ” undisputed fact that the Russians were hell bent on tilting the election in his direction.” Where is this undisputed fact(s)?? I haven’t seen much more than educated and made up guesses. The FBI just admitted they tapped Trumps server and found nothing. All we have is Flynn and the Atty General not being forthwith with his testimony. I have yet to see any direct evidence in how the Russians influenced the election as you intone. No matter how many times you repeat this narrative does not then make it true or even relevant without facts.
Every intelligence agency in our arsenal has concluded that the Russians interfered in our electoral process and did so specifically to the detriment of Clinton and the Democrats.
@stanleybmanly Semantics will not win an argument. The Russians have been hacking US communications since the telegraph machine was invented and visa versa.
”“We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election.” Assessing something is not evidence…it is an opinion based on an expected and desired outcome. The same “assessment” can and should be made that the FBI has made a firm decision to not investigate Trump and the Russians….why you might ask? Because our intel community knows what you do not want to hear….there was no collusion or untoward influence of the election. Period! It’s been over 3 months since the election. They were investigating this since last summer don’t you think by now clear evidence of this tampering by the Russians would be out in the open? It would be the biggest story since Watergate. WaPo would be all over it. No one has more of an ax to grind than Billary, Podesta and Reid with that much bitterness towards losing the election they most assuredly would come up with even just a smoking bullet. Nothing. If you are still convinced the Russians did something to influence our election and there is no physical proof real or digital then we must have the most incompetent intelligence agency in the history of our country and it will then be my hope that Trump fixes that pronto!
Let’s see, you conservatives think that Bill Clinton deserved to be impeached for lying about having consensual sex with an intern, but it does not bother you that Trump lies non-stop or that the Attorney General lied under oath about meeting with the Russian ambassador. Care to explain how this can be?
It’s pointless. I await fulfillment of your 8 years of Trump.
My pain is nothing against your oongoing disillusionment.
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