How do you reconcile someone's apology with the fact that they actually did what they're apologizing for?

I have had similar moments and a sincere heartfelt apology can smooth things over. But you mention this has happened before and probably will happen again. The wheels are already coming off this friendship bus and may be best to end the friendship before more painful things are said.

I have a very cynical view of apologies.

I see them as being comforting for the person making the apology, because it seems to let them excuse themselves for the misdeed. In other words, it lets them feel that they’re off the hook.

But as the receiver of the apology, it’s not credible. Saying I’m sorry doesn’t make me feel better or reduce the mistrust or hurt that I have. The only way (to me) that shows sorrow and remorse is through some sort of corrective action; understanding that they have internalized what they did and are changing their behavior.

I’ll be brief and conclude with two old sayings – both applicable here.

“actions speak louder than words” and “talk is cheap”

@jca I think you first must accept the fact that she has changed. Her apology may be sincere and you can accept that. However you have no obligation to socialize with her at all. And considering her changes mentally and emotionally I don’t think you need to “explain”. You have the right to refuse as graciously as you can saying “that will not work for me”.

Gosh. How tough. The question really is, How do you reconcile an apology when someone apologizes for something, but you know they’re going to do it again.
I might say, “I appreciate your apology, but you’ve apologized in the past but you keep doing it, and it’s stressful. Lets just keep being friends at work and here.”

@elbanditoroso Would you not say that apologies are a step above grudging acknowledgement, which is a step above being unapologetic and/or denying it happened, which is a step above celebrating what they did?

How about apologies which come with sincere regret, understanding of the impact, offers to make up for it, and/or promises to commit to not doing it again?

@Zaku – a step above nothing, I guess.

The problem with “sincere regret and a promise not to do it again” is that those are just words. Promises are often broken, and sincere regret is sincere at the time but may not be in two weeks.

Like I said, I’m cynical – maybe too cynical- about apologies. Probably from experience.

You aren’t obligated to maintain relationships with people who are hurtful to you. Even if they’re sorry for their behavior – if it continues, apologies can mean a lot less. If you’re anxious that it will continue, that’s a good reason to take a step back and give the person room to let their actions speak louder than words. It’s only natural that a betrayal of trust can take time to be rebuilt, it’s not automatic just because someone has said “I’m sorry.”

Ah, @elbanditoroso, I gave a slightly different view of apologies. An honest apology is an honest acknowledgment of wrongdoing, and an expression of honest remorse, given because it’s the right thing to do. The receiver of the apology is, in no way, obligated to accept said apology or forgive the apologizer. Unfortunately, the concept of the apology had been so skewed in our culture as to be almost meaningless.

To answer your Q, @jca, since she knows what she does/did, you can tell her that although you appreciate the apology, and understand the issues, the fact remains that she said/says hurtful things, and you don’t feel the same way about her anymore.
Meetings and stuff may be awkward for awhile, that’s one of the downsides.

I hope you can work through this, @jca, these things are very unpleasant.

Her second email to me on the subject of getting together for my birthday reads as follows:
“If you wouldn’t be comfortable getting together with me for dinner, no biggie, I won’t be insulted, but we have traditionally always gone out for dinner for your birthday, and I think we’ve always had a good time, so I thought I’d make the offer. Plus, it would just be nice to get together!”

I’m thinking “naaah” but I haven’t responded yet.

You reconcile those emotions if the person is important to you, especially if they are dealing wirh a mental illness. So many people give up on their friends or family member when mental illness is involved and this makes the mentally ill even more depressed. It seems she is aware of her actions and is truly sorry for them. If you can’t deal with her reality maybe it is best that you cut ties. If you truly care for her you stick it out and support her.

Decline.
Keep things polite, but don’t invite further trouble by attempting more closeness than either of you can handle.

Obviously people have expressed their opinions of what you could, should or might do with respect to the apology and the person, but one thing to keep in mind here, which may temper your decision somewhat (and I offer zero opinion about what you could or should do in that regard) is that you are the one with options here. If your friend is being in any way incapacitated or her brain functions modified against her conscious will or intent because of some progressive illness, she may no longer have as many options as she once did, and perhaps even fewer and fewer as time goes by.

It’s a tough thing with mental illness. I watched the effect that my grandmother’s advancing Alzheimer’s (which we didn’t even have a name for so many years ago) had on my mother, her only daughter, when she went to visit her before she died. Either Grandma didn’t even recognize Mom, which was obviously tough enough on her, or she was angry about things that Mom simply couldn’t control, or angry about things that weren’t even real or which had occurred decades ago (before my birth, even) in their shared history.

I didn’t recognize it at the time – it made no sense to me that Mom would continually subject herself to what she knew would be a frustrating, disappointing and upsetting experience – but she made the visits even so, several times a week.

Aside from that observation, I have no advice.

Accepting an apology does not obligate you to return to the former friendship. You get to decide what you want to do. Being able to be polite with this person in social settings is a sign of healthy boundaries. You can be polite, but that does not obligate you to then be close friends.

@Hawaii_Jake nailed it. “I’m sorry but I don’t feel like it this year.’ Or something my therapist suggested I say, “That’s not going to work for me.” No back and forth, no discussion.

Gosh, that second post with her email sums things up. ‘We’ve always done this so do you really want to do it again?’ Just say thanks for the offer, but you’ve got a lot on and won’t be able to make dinner or lunch. Leave it at that. She obviously doesn’t want to do it either and is going through the motions. Sounds like you can move on from this and let it die.

I happen to like apologies—the honest ones, anyway, not the ones muttered out of a sense of obligation—because they show me that the person is willing to reflect on their actions, at least to a certain degree, and is willing to consider how their actions impact me. What I mean is…. to me, an apology signals a sense of reciprocity, of cooperation, of self-reflection. I have a much easier time replacing my trust in someone when they apologize. It lets me crack open that door again—usually I need more than just an apology to feel safe pushing the door open all the way, and the door may never get to be as wide-open as it once was, but an apology can go a long way in helping me start the process of opening it again. I can think of a few people in my life who don’t apologize for much of anything (always insisting what they did was necessary or right or fair)... I have a really hard time trusting them, and I find them exhausting to be around.

In this case, it sounds especially difficult…. like maybe your friend’s behavior is shifting, and the part of her who said those awful things winds up being such a different part of her than the part offering the apology? Maybe it seems especially difficult to reconcile the two behaviors because the personas behind both behaviors seem difficult to reconcile? (If that makes any sense…. gosh that feels wordy, but I’m not finding a way to say what I’m trying to say more cleanly right now…)

If she’s apologizing for something she doesn’t necessarily have control over, and you want to continue to be her friend, I think you and she have to figure out ways to navigate those moments… Because as personal as those arguments may become, if she’s not totally in control of her reactions, the intensity of emotion she expresses isn’t really about you or the specific situation… Well, I think CWOTUS said what I’m trying to get at here more clearly. I’m finding myself quite word-groggy right now for whatever reason, sorry I’m not as clear or concise as I could be…

…. When the issue at stake is large, I don’t think an apology alone could ever be enough. But I do think apologies can help bridge the rift enough to get a conversation going, and it’s in that conversation that people can figure out how to mend or address what was broken or what broke.

But she keeps apologizing, then doing it again.

@Dutchess_III That’s why you must do the best thing for yourself. Discontinue contact.

She apologized, which is good, but she has broken your trust. Trust, once broken, is not easily mended. Tell her that, then say, “Thanks for the invitation, but I’ll pass.”

Regardless of her mental illness, there are still consequences to her actions.

Have not yet read the other answers, will do so after posting.

Because this friend is mentally ill, you have to rack up some/most of her meanness to that. Actually all of it, really. Because she can’t (most likely) have a rational conversation at this point.

But, that does not discount the fact that she said things that hurt your feelings and upset you. I am dealing with something somewhat similar right now, and until you wrote this question, I have been feeling guilty about feeling terrible about how I think I was treated. I got an apology that didn’t apologize for what was actually said and done. It was sort of like, “Sorry, let’s be pals, I missed you, blah, blah, blah, how’s the weather?” She never apologized for what she actually put me through. But, I realized that she went through some very serious trauma (nothing to do with me whatsoever, but she moved away and I didn’t hear one word from her for almost a year).

If I were you, in your particular situation, I would very gently blow her off, repeatedly. You don’t need to be mean, or even explain to her why or how she hurt your feelings. Either she won’t understand, won’t remember, or won’t even fathom why you are upset. She gave an apology that doesn’t really fit the circumstance, which is kind of sweet, and kind of messed up at the same time. You have acknowledged that she is mentally ill. You pretty much have to go with that. She can’t really apologize for what she did to hurt you, because she probably doesn’t perceive or even remember.

She does seem to care for you and like you, which is good, but that doesn’t mean that you have to give in to her or coddle her. It might be different if she was a family member, but she isn’t. All you need to do is be a decent person and maybe not chew her out (even if you want to do that, and even if she deserved it as a sane person). You need to be kind, but distant.

Let her know, again and again if you have to, that you don’t have time to get together with her. You don’t need to give her any explanations. Explanations will just make the whole situation worse. Move on from her, slowly, but surely.

I feel so sorry for you, because I know how it feels, even though our situations are quite different. It would be so easy just to tell her off, but that would not serve any useful purpose. Be gentle, but move away from her. And don’t feel guilty.

Personally, I wouldn’t write off a long term friendship especially if your friend is mentally ill. If the arguments are by text or email why take part? Can you not just say you don’t want to argue and leave it at that?

You could say you don’t feel like letting her take you out for your birthday and see her for a coffee instead. That lets her see that things are not back to normal although you haven’t given up on her as a friend. Maybe she will get treatment for her illness.

@jca This question makes me wonder why some people recognize ongoing bad behavior enough to apologize for it, but not enough to actually change it.
I had a sister like this, who became “enlightened” through AA. God she was insufferable! She was insufferable before AA, but she became righteous and insufferable after. She would speak at length about her short comings, and how she saw the light, then go right back to it. It was like she felt that the recognition somehow absolved her of any responsibility for her behavior. She didn’t need to change it, she just needed to confess to it.

There’s a huge difference between a person that is inconsiderate and can’t learn from their mistakes and a person who experienced trauma and mental illness that is often associated with the trauma. You can’t compare the two.

I’ve been in the friend’s shoes. I had some “friends” give up on me when I was acting out after some personal trauma and newly diagnosed mental illness. They knew me for years and knew what a kind and sweet person I was, but in a short time my mental illness took over and it was too much for them, so they gave up on me. This moment in my life helped me realize who my true friends were. Hard times reveal true friends.

If this is new behavior and you really care for her then you stick it out. If you really don’t care about her then break it off quickly. Don’t drag it out like someone above suggested.

I’m glad at least one other person here agrees with me. It’s really depressing reading how so many of you could easily give up on a friend who is hurting and needs help.

My sister was lifelong, not temporary. She is STILL that way.

That is not the case for @jca and her friend. This is new behavior after trauma.

Before you judge us so harshly, @Dixon, please understand that there are factors at play here of which you may not be aware. @jca has a high stress job with the child welfare group in her state, she is single parenting a young child, and has recently lost her mother.
This is not a brand new behavior on the part of her friend (see the first paragraph of her details), it is ongoing.
We are not without compassion, our main concern is for @jca‘s well-being.

@canidmajor Yeah, it can be hard when one is a newbie to know all the history of Jelly’s situations.

Well, I think it helps to be brought up to speed sometimes.

@Dixon, I hear what you are saying and in most cases would totally agree. As has been mentioned, there is history here. I believe and I’m sure she will correct me if I’m wrong, that @jca has discussed this friend and the stress her friend’s behaviour is causing her on other occasions. This is not a new situation. @jca has quite obviously struggled with how to deal with this friend’s mental health issues and it’s caused her pain and anguish. She obviously cares about this woman and that’s why she’s asked the question. However, when someone else’s bahaviour is negatively affecting our lives, there does come a point when we need to say ‘this is too much’. @jca has her own responsibilities and her own family. We do need to be considerate of our friends, but when our friend’s behaviour is hurting us, our own mental health has to be the priority.

To clarify: My friend lost her husband a little over 2 years ago. He had cancer and he died a painful death which she witnessed as she was with him in the hospital at the end. After that, she became very depressed, hypochondriac, took a few months off work, would call me or whoever she could get and talk for an hour about some little thing or decision about what to do about a health issue because it was a Saturday and the doctor was not available. Now she’s still on some very heavy duty psych meds and dealing with her issues.

I’ve asked about her before (good memory, Jellies!). I do care about her and I want to be on a friendly basis with her but as for hanging out, we’d see each other and then she’d start a fight. She’s done this with other friends she has too, and alienated them. For me, when that happens, I will try to limit contact but then she gets in touch and is nice and I tend to not hold grudges. This past time, about a month ago, she was really vicious. Afterwards, I felt like ok, I keep giving her another chance, and it keeps happening, she comes out
swinging and I feel beat up afterwards. I don’t have time or energy for drama, fighting,
negativity or bullshit.

I am taking this opportunity to distance myself from her. She sent the email Wednesday and this is now early Friday morning and I haven’t responded. I was going to respond and say something like “I’m ok not doing that but thank you anyway” but I just put it off and put it off and now I think she will get the hint that no response means no.

I’m still interested in opinions so please don’t stop responding. I gave out good answers to all answers so far as a thank you and will continue.

@jca Thank you for being open to differing opinions. That is the purpose of this sight, isn’t this correct? I am sorry for you loss.

I am not judging anyone harshly. I have lived this experience and understand it so I thought I would share. I mentioned how disappointing it is to see so many willing to give up so easily on a long time friendship. I consider two years of new behavior new. This friend has not always been this way. Now after learning what the friend has gone through I feel she needs even more forgiveness and understanding. How awful to watch your spouse die. To feel all alone like that. We all have busy lives full of stress, loss and illness. Not one life is more precious than any other to say I’m too busy to give up on a friend. my opinion from experience. I am not being harsh or judgmental.

I hope you and your friend find the peace you both need @jca. This situation is very sad.

Are the heavy duty psych meds doing any good? I know a few people on drugs like that. They don’t seem to do much good to me. Their behavior doesn’t seem to have changed at all.

I guess if she can function and sleep and stuff like that, it’s probably an improvement over what she would be like without the meds. However she’s not like she used to be and she may never be like what she used to be.

She is convinced she has a whole bunch of health problems. There’s a syndrome she is convinced she has even though various tests by various doctors have not had a positive result for this syndrome. She found a doctor in the city that told her that even though the tests were all negative, she has the syndrome (such a rare syndrome I’m afraid to name it because if she ever googles and finds this, she’ll read all this stuff here). The symptoms of the syndrome are vague enough that they could come from different diagnoses. Anyway, she said it takes her two hours to get ready in the morning and two hours to get ready for bed at night because she uses all kinds of skin washes, the water temperature has to be within one degree of what she needs or her skin gets burned, she uses three thermometers to test the temperature, and on and on and on. For a while she was not taking showers, she was doing sponge baths because she said she was intolerant to hot water. Whether or not she’s still doing sponge baths, I’m not sure because I don’t ask and she doesn’t say.

She runs to the doctors all the time for dry skin, dry eyes, intolerance to cold (that’s Reynaud’s Syndrome which I can name because it’s not that rare), intolerance to heat (hence the thermometers and sponge baths), the list goes on and on.

She has these $1000 “moisture goggles” that are custom made that do something to keep moisture in her eyes.

If I let her, she’d talk for an hour about these various ailments.

When she first started with her psychiatric symptoms, she went to the psychiatrist and he was taking notes on paper. He got up to leave the room for a minute and she went over and looked at the notes. The notes said “Patient is delusional.”

She twists things people say, she gets upset with people from things she derives from what she thinks they meant, that’s the tip of the iceberg.

Wow. That is some serious stuff.