Social Question

JLeslie's avatar

Is the US getting unfair criticism regarding bans on countries that are majority Muslim?

Asked by JLeslie (65743points) March 15th, 2017 from iPhone

I was against the total ban, now I see it has been tweaked a little to allow people with green cards and some other exceptions. Probably not enough exceptions to satisfy me, but I’m not up to date on the detail.

This morning on Daily Chatter I read about on of the Netherlands right wing politicians. I feel like America is looked down on now, but then I see things like this and I think screw that. I think there are a lot of pots calling the kettle black.

Below is the article.

“The Dutchman
Add Geert Wilders to the list of anti-European Union, anti-Islamic, convention-demolishing far-right politicians at the height of their powers.

Wilders and his anti-immigration Party for Freedom have been leading in the polls for Dutch parliamentary elections Wednesday throughout much of the race –the most recent polls show him neck-and-neck contest or slightly falling behind current Prime Minister Mark Rutte.

With his shock of dyed, white-blond hair and Indonesian heritage, the tall Wilders strikes a dashing figure.

His message, meanwhile, is among the most blatantly xenophobic in Europe.

Late last year, he was convicted of inciting discrimination in comments about Moroccans he made in 2014. Recently he referred to folks from the North African country as “scum.”

“He has said worse things about Moroccans and Muslims,” Ebubekir Ozture, a Dutch advocate for Muslims in the Netherlands, told the Associated Press. “As crazy as it sounds, people are a bit used to it from him.”

Wilders is calling for ending immigration from majority Muslim countries, shuttering mosques, banning the Koran and taxing headscarves. He would also schedule a Brexit-style referendum to pull the Netherlands out of the EU.

The vote could be an omen for what’s to come in general elections later this year in France, Germany and potentially Italy, too.

“The Netherlands is kind of a bellwether, a lot of trends manifest themselves here first,” Dutch political strategist Hans Anker told the New York Times. “I wouldn’t rule out that Wilders could be prime minister. This one is fundamentally unpredictable.”

A member of parliament from Prime Minister Mark Rutte’s Liberal Party told the BBC that the election was about the identity of the Netherlands, which many Dutch people feel as if they are losing.

“I think it is globalization, people travelling all around the world, people losing their jobs, so that’s why people need some security,” said lawmaker Anne Mulder. “People are looking for identity, our shared feelings, acting normal.”

It appears as if Wilders’ lead in the polls has diminished. But that’s only happened because other mainstream parties have veered right to compete for voters who agree with his agenda, NBC News wrote.

“A constitution is not something that is (set) in stone and can never be changed,” said Wilders in another Associated Press interview. “It’s alive as a society is alive and we are now being threatened by mass immigration and Islamic-ization.”

He also said he didn’t want to end the country’s long-held tradition of offering safe haven to the oppressed.

“I don’t want to get rid of the typical Dutch tolerance,” Wilders said. “But it’s cultural suicide that we, at the end of the day, keep on being tolerant to the intolerant. That should stop as soon as possible.”

Dutch voters might soon discover the limits of Wilders’ tolerance.”

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25 Answers

MrGrimm888's avatar

The criticism is well warranted. It is certainly hypocritical of many other countries, but the US deserves lots of ire for lots of reasons.

If I could make one thing clear to the rest of the world, it would be that not all Americans support the ban, or the US’s actions.

LostInParadise's avatar

Tell me again the purpose of the ban. Donald Trump said that it was urgent, but he had been dragging his feet on it. How hard could it have been to offer an executive order most of which is almost identical to the original? In the meantime, there have been no incidents, and past incidents have come mostly from countries not included in the ban. Additionally, several states are taking Trump to court because they feel that they will be hurt by the ban. During his campaign Trump talked about banning all Muslims. This is the best explanation of his actions that I have seen.

janbb's avatar

Bigotry in other countries does not excuse bigotry in ours. And other countries in Europe have been absorbing a much, much higher proportion of immigrants and refugees than we have.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

@janbb is right.

We don’t go by other countries’ metric. We have our own constitution and our own way of dealing with things—and we have a system of argument that enables change.

Yes, this criticism from Muslim countries that institutionalize ethnic, national, sexual and religious bigotry, then attempt to judge us by our own metric is hypocritical and nauseating.

It’s a family fight. It has nothing to do with these assholes.

JLeslie's avatar

@janbb Recently. They have been absorbing more immigrants and refugees recently. I’m not sure if the point is that Europe has been absorbing more immigrants and refugees lately. The point that came through to me in this, and my other recent Q, is some people in parts of Europe are not keen at all on a melting pot of people that will change the culture, look, and feel of the country. I saw an interview with a French politician, I don’t remember her name, where she said basically if France allows headscarfs and other visible things that she doesn’t see as being French, then France will no longer be France.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

^^Her name is Perrine Le Pen. She is ultra right wing. She has some reasonable, or understandable points, and then she has some extremely unreasonable demands—and her ethic is catching on all over Europe. Her politics are reflected in the popularity of the Golden Dawn in Greece, this week’s national elections in Hungary, the re-emergence of popular fascism in Scandinavia, in the Brexit vote and many other European countries affected by the mass immigration of refugees from Africa and the Middle East.

Marion Anne Perrine Le Pen

janbb's avatar

Marine Le Pen

JLeslie's avatar

^^Thanks, both of you, for her name.

elbanditoroso's avatar

There used to be this concept of “American Exceptionalism” – that the US was in some way special and even better than other countries, and that we were a country that was setting a positive path for the rest of the world.

The Trump travel bans have shown the concept of American Exceptionalism to be a big lie. We are no better than, and in some ways worse, than other countries.

Thanks, Donald.

flutherother's avatar

There is an anti-immigrant anti anyone different mood sweeping the western world right now. It is nasty, dangerous and inhumane and even goes against our own values. It should be called out wherever it rears its ugly head whether that be in the form of Trump or Geert Wilders or anyone else.

janbb's avatar

@flutherother My heart breaks for the Syrians.

flutherother's avatar

@janbb The children in particular.

BellaB's avatar

Is the criticism of the US unfair? no.

Does that mean other countries are necessarily doing things right? no.

I’m proud of the Canadian Girl Guide leaders who have decided no more travel to America. I’m glad tourism to the US is suffering. Yup. Glad.

cazzie's avatar

Our extreme Right politicians don’t speak for all of us here in Europe, just like yours don’t for you. Stop generalising our politics if you don’t want yours to be either. We’ll see what the election results are today in Netherlands, but we already know the results of yours.

Regarding the Dutch election: Parliamentary seats are allocated in exact proportion to a party’s vote share and no major party wants to be in a coalition with Mr Wilders, he has little chance of entering government however well he performs

JLeslie's avatar

@cazzie That’s the whole point. The world can and should stop saying “America” is now horrible and racist, because Trump and his followers do not speak for the whole country. Just like I know Brexit doesn’t speak for all of the U.K., and so on.

@elbanditoroso I think America was very special at its creation, and for many years. It was a special concept to have religious freedom, the separation of church and state, and that we were governed by representatives voted in by the people. Freedom of the press and the right to speak out against the government was also very special.

Moreover, people were to be treated as individuals on their own merit. Able to climb the social latter.

America didn’t invent democracy, and we certainly didn’t treat everyone equally, even though supposedly that was supposed to be the case, but the idea and intent was there.

Thank goodness so many countries followed along eventually. Royalty is less important, more and more governments are seiarate from religion, many countries have free education for the masses, etc. Some countries have surpassed us in some ways.

I’d much rather be one of many countries that has come a long way, and citizens have freedom and opportunity. Unfortunately, it seems possible some of us (countries) are actually backsliding a little.

cazzie's avatar

@JLeslie Trump is your President now. That’s my point.

JLeslie's avatar

@cazzie You too. You may not live here, but you are American. Did you vote?

cazzie's avatar

Yep. But he’s not my president.

cazzie's avatar

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39287689

The Dutch refuse to give the far right votes. So… USA still sit with their crazy, right wing, white supremacy, KKK beloved, tax cuts for the rich, taking away healthcare leaders.

JLeslie's avatar

@cazzie If I read correctly, Wilder has gained votes. Those “crazy, right wing…” people exist there too it seems, and it’s not just ten people out of ten million. Or, however many people are there. Not everyone who voted for Trump is racist. I don’t know Wilder’s stance on taxes and other topics.

cazzie's avatar

Geer won’t be in the ruling government.

Of course they exist everywhere but they only get to be president and ruling government in the very special countries.

BellaB's avatar

Not all Trump supporters are racist, but they supported/support a racist. The bottom line is that they are responsible for him. There is no way around that.

LostInParadise's avatar

Wait till they find out that those jobs Trump promised them are not going to materialize.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

Wait till they find out how exclusive a racist’s club can be. LOL.

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