Can a bigot honestly love you if they disagree with your lifestyle?

What is love without respect?

Good question. Thank you.

I think not.

It may not be your vision of love. The problem is that it is next to impossible to fathom the heart of another human being. And of course bigoted, even hateful people are apparently not immune to Cupid’s arrows. We all know people who if they professed their love for us, we would recoil in terror.

The visions of love… Like the abuser that tells his victim he loves her, that’s why he hits her. For her own good.

And yet he probably believes he loves her.

I fail to see where you get off calling someone with a different belief system a bigot.
Just because the way you has led to a marriage does not make your friend wrong for believing differently.
Were you married in a Church? If you were, I guess all athiests are bigots to you.
It sounds to me like this person cares about you, and wanted you to know that they accept that you are gay, it is simply they view marriage as being notsomething for all loving couples, but for man and woman only.
It seems to me you are the bigot, forgoing the love of a friend because their beliefs are a bit different than yours.
How judgemental of you.
Do you feel superior, with the shoe on the other foot, or do you think you can handle being friends with someone who has an opinion different from yours?

Eh, it’s a matter of definitions and aspects. I would say from experience that I felt I loved many aspects of someone who had other aspects that I was highly prejudiced against. I didn’t love those aspects. I think love is a thing and a state more importantly than it is a verb to be done correctly. It is certainly possible to feel love, to be in love, when there is disrespect for the same person. Also, of course, we often confuse what we think we know about who a person is, with the actual person, even when there is no disrespect at all, because those are different things.

The idea of “honestly loving someone” seems like a collapse of ideas that tries to turn the fundamental difference between someone’s feelings towards their perception of someone, and the actual person, into something that can be judged honest or dishonest.

I would say yes it can be true for the person you judge a bigot that they have their truth that they honestly believe and feel that they love you. And, you can always use the fact that you are a person who knows and can choose your own meanings about yourself, to decline and refuse and/or reject that.

Yes. Cognitive dissonance is quite common.

My father loved me, but we were at odds about the Vietnam War. And I loved him. We fought like cats and dogs. He believed that I was a coward and not willing to fight for the country. That hurt bad. But I loved him and he loved me. There is a huge difference between hatred and dissappointment.

My mother loved me, but didn’t agree with the way I led my life because it scared the shit out her.

Her father, my grandfather, was born in Texas in 1876 and grew up riding the range as a cowboy. He was a huge racist. He loved his daughter, his son-in-law and their children, although they were Kennedy liberals and super pro Civil Rights. And we loved him because he was otherwise an amazing guy.

I’ve had girlfriends who loved me and were religious, though I am agnostic.

One of my favorite couples is a social democrat married to a republican fund raiser and a true believer. A huge sexual attraction led to love and understanding, then marriage, children and they are one of the happiest couples I know. They both lost friends when they decided to get married.

I know many couples where one is religious and the other couldn’t give shit.

I have gay friends of whom I defend their lifestyle loyally, but I am heterosexual.

Of course he can love you. People are different from each other and make room for those differences when those differences are outweighed by the other qualities they like about you.. Ever heard of the phrase “Love conquers all”? There is a lot of truth and wisdom in that.

Call it what you will, congnitive dissonance, or whatever. If we didn’t have the capacity to do this, humans would have killed each other off long ago. Now, grow up and stop being such a pussy.

@PattyMelt Quite an answer from a priveledge person who doesn’t live with bigotry every day. When a person votes against equal rights for a group of people that makes them a bigot. If you preach against gay rights—no matter how high your pulpit—you are a bigot.
If you write against gay rights, you are a bigot.
If you give your money or time to any Christian church, organization, or ministry that you know in any way actively works to restrict or limit gay rights, you are a bigot.
If, in private, you intimate to anyone that you don’t think gay people should be allowed to get married, you are a bigot.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

It’s not about opinions. It’s about basic human decency.

Chill out and come back when you have been judged on a daily basis and when half the country wants to take your rights away. Look up bigotry. You do not understand the definition.

Here is my personal story and why I asked this question-

My child came out as transgender. My family and most of my friends are completely supportive. My best friend of almost 40 years is not. She thinks my child needs advice and guidance from the church. My friend votes against equal rights for my child. My friend claims to love me, she just has a different “opinion.” She is the definition of a bigot.

I’m having a very hard time believing she can love me if she doesn’t support my family and wants to take my childs equal rights away.. Our family will be faced with bigotry the rest of our lives. I don’t need it coming from people close to me.

Still want to call ME a bigot?

The definition of bigot isn’t having a different opinion it’s being intolerant of someone’s opinions. If he believes that a marriage should be between a man and a woman, but doesn’t hate on you, and still loves you, he isn’t being intolerant or a bigot.
People having views that are against/different than yours does not make them a bigot. I do not feel your husband is a bigot. He still respects and loves you, he isn’t intolerant.
I think you need to stop trying to be a victim.

I think a lot of people are struggling with issues around transgender persons. It takes more time for some to get used to the concept. If this is a true friend, perhaps it would be wise for you to acknowledge their difficulties and see if they are open to learning more. No everyone is at the same place of acceptance all the time and a little understanding of this on your side might go a long way. Always feeling the victim or coming out swinging are not the best ways to go through life.

Love is for everybody, spouses, siblings, parents, neighbors, friends. Sex is not love, it is not about love. It is about making new generations.
It is the fucked up luck of humans that we like sex, even when we aren’t doing it to get babies.
For thousands of years, people have paired, mated, and raised families. For thousands of years people have had very specific ideas about marriage. There have been those who felt differently, and most hid those different feelings.
Down through the ages some have experimented with sexuality, gender identity, and cohabitation. Always those different behaviors would get trimmed back one way or another, until recently. The one thing everyone would agree on was marriage was between a man and a woman, even when that man married more than one, they wete all wives.
When I first heard of gay, I thought it was awful, against nature. Over the years I have changed my views.
That does not mean though, that I will hate or resent those who cannot bring themelves to go against a set of beliefs which stood ground for thousands of years.
The way to be a decent human is to accept them as they are, and understand that switching gears is not easy for everyone.
I didn’t copy you, pengy. You just got done quicker than me.

My mother is a democrat and my father is a republican, There is no doubt that they love each other but do not love each others politics. There is an important lesson about respect, tolerance and not allowing small differences or disagreements get in the way of relationships to be had from them.
Personally, I am agnostic and my wife is christian we don’t let that difference sour our relationship. If someone disagrees with you even if they are clearly in the wrong yet otherwise treat you respectfully why would you cut them out of your life? Bigots are fully capable of loving who they are bigoted against, they just don’t realize they are bigots and may genuinely believe they are doing the right thing.

I have a young friend who has been pharmaceutically transitioning for 11 months now. ( I put it that way because I just don’t know how long she was transitioning before that. She didn’t change her name until she started the hormone therapy, and she has always dressed and had her hair androgynously).
We have talked about the reactions. She tells me it’s a hard road for most to adjust their thinking, and takes time. People who love you will often come to understand, because this is the first personal contact they have had with a trans person that it is not something to be feared. Time.

Your friend is actually displaying loving behavior, trying to help. I am thinking that as much as you think she can’t love you, you are expressing that you can’t love her.

Maybe have this conversation with her, as calmly as you can muster.

Great question. I’m reminded of a similar discussion we had here recently; maybe you’ll find some help in those answers.

I disagree with the idea that what you’re dealing with is merely a “difference of opinion.” Believing that some groups shouldn’t have the same rights as the majority is not simply an opinion, it’s basically the definition of bigotry.

Honestly, I don’t know what to do in these situations. I used to be really good at compartmentalizing people’s “politics” (in this case it goes beyond politics, imo) from the rest of the person. In college, one of my best friends was someone who had economic views which, if enacted, would literally kill me. It hurt to think about the fact that he was campaigning for my death (he was very politically active), so I just ignored it and didn’t venture into that topic with him. That worked fine for the friendship we had, but in some ways it feels like the friendship had to stay really shallow and superficial in order to work. We couldn’t talk about so much of who I am because it was at odds with what he believed in. There were so many topics that were off-limits. We just stuck with our middle ground, which wasn’t a lot – just stupid shallow stuff, like our common interest in comedy. But I honestly liked the guy, and he treated me with kindness.

I don’t know if I’d be able to do it today. It’s been harder to compartmentalize ever since Trump got elected. I don’t know what the right thing to do is.

@Patty_Melt Homosexual people have existed since the dawn of time; in many cultures they’ve simply had to hide for their own safety. Not to mention the other cultures you’re ignoring in your answer who accepted homosexuality long before we did. Please consider reading up on this topic before making such broad statements.

Read again what I said. I did not say homosexuality was new. I said the widespread acceptance is new. I said legal marriage is new.
Don’t try to correct me for things I did not say.

I’m aware of what you said. You were speaking as though American culture is the only one that exists. Sorry if I misunderstood. Let’s not derail this thread.

Thank you for understanding @Mariah.

bigot noun

a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions

I can love people I disagree with because I’m not bigoted against them. Even if their opinion is not progressive, I choose to value them as a whole. The same works the other way around. We can argue our opinions and life experiences without thinking the other person is unworthy.

Taking away the understanding or love from another person’s perspective doesn’t help them understand or love.

@janbb Playing the victim? My friend made disparaging remarks about transgender people during the bathroom debates. She adamantly opposes letting a transgender person use the bathroom of their choice and votes accordingly. She’s a bigot.

As a parent of a transgender child it is my place to surround him with only people who will support him because this is going to be a difficult journey. This is not playing the victim. This is about being an advocate for my child and all transgender people.

@Tallahasseetwinkie If you don’t want your son around that person then fine. You are the parent, that is your choice.

Your husband still loves you despite the fact that he believes something you don’t. He isn’t a bigot because he shares a different viewpoint than you, and your calling him that is making you seem more like the bigot, as you are acting intolerant over his viewpoint. If he doesn’t bring it up and shows that he loves you, who cares? People who are complete polar opposites fall in love all the time and it’s successful.
You are playing the victim by making it seem like his viewpoint is oppressing you or that he is not capable of truly accepting you. If he married you, he accepts you.

This is not about my husband!?

Your question is about your husband. I was answering that.
Your friend isn’t a bigot either. I don’t agree with letting Transgenders use whatever bathroom they please, but I still respect them as people and I call them whatever pronoun/name they want to be called. I am not intolerant of their views on their gender/body, they know themselves better than I know them. I don’t hate on them or being transgender.

My main point is that there is a difference between not agreeing with someone’s lifestyle choices but still respecting them, and not agreeing with lifestyle choices, and being a jerk about it.

Once again—assuming everyone who doesn’t share your views is a bigot is ridiculous. Because that means that probably almost everyone on this earth is a bigot because not everyone is going to agree with everything you agree with. Don’t take every opposing viewpoint as a personal attack or an attack against everyone/thing. Chill out.

I still have a hard time understanding why people are so up in arms about letting trans people use the bathroom they want.

@SergeantQueen “You are gay and you just legally married your boyfriend. A very close friend claims they love you but…” The question isn’t about her husband.

You say you respect transgender people, but respect is just a word. You support a policy that endangers their lives. (Can you imagine the violence that this woman might face if she walked into a men’s room?) Is that respect?

Also, none of this is a “lifestyle choice”. People don’t choose to be trans or gay.

Merriam-Webster’s definition of bigot

***

Being LGBT is not a lifestyle. Choosing to be a hipster is a lifestyle. One’s sexual orientation is part of the core self. It is not a choice.

I’m pretty sensitive about eveyone’s right to healthcare. Big time. You might say that is my big issue in life, just as what you describe is yours. I was a nurse for 23 years and toward the end of my career, I saw the focus in the US being taken off the patient and onto the bottom line as community hospitals began to be privatized. We would never have dreamed to ask a patient if they had insurance or not. That was the people who worked in admin’s problem. We delivered healthcare. That is what we were trained to do and that is what we did. When that changed, and I saw that people were getting second and third class healthcare—or none at all—based on income and quality of insurance, I took early retirement.

I know people, otherwise good people, who for various reasons believe that single payer universal healthcare in the States will break our treasury and is therefore bad for the country, although it works in most European counties since WWII, democratic countries with thriving economies. We have drinks down at the yacht club. I run into them at the beach and race against them in regattas. Some of these people have excellent qualities that I admire. I just won’t talk to them about this, although, if I moved back to the States, I would certainly be a victim of their stupid fucking ideas, because there is no way I can afford decent healthcare there..

Life is short, good times are few for many of us. Some things you have to just put aside. I know I’m right about the right to equitable healthcare and I do believe someday America will come to their senses and have decent healthcare for all. And I believe you are right, and someday you will win this thing and your son will be able to live his/her life as a first class citizen, unmolested, with all rights intact.. Maybe it will take a generation to die off first. So be it.

I must say, though, that I’ve never had children. So, I’ve never felt that strong parental instinct of parenthood, I might be a bit more impatient if my son’s happiness was at stake here and I might become quite hostile toward someone who I felt contributes to that. I know me. I can get pretty fired up, IRL. And knowing that keeps me from pursuing these things with otherwise good people.

So, I’ll pull out of this now, But I would appreciate it if you would give full details of your situation next time.

I’m sorry, I may be out of line here BUT this lady is NOT a friend. Her behavior is not that of a friend’s. I would not be willing to continue the friendship. Sorry.

I don’t have a good answer for how to respond to the friend’s behavior.

On the one hand, I would also want to protect my child from the bigotry in the world, at least for as long as I can. (And also make sure that I’m preparing them to navigate those waters when they inevitably arrive.) This is theoretical for me, though, since don’t have children, and I’m a long way from having any.

On the other hand, I know that one of the best ways to fight bigotry is to help the people holding those beliefs to better understand the people they’ve been prejudging…

I’ve posted this Snap Judgment segment on Fluther before, but I think it’s worth reposting here. What gets me when I listen to it is both how powerful this approach is to tackling prejudice… but also how enxhausting and frustrating it must be, and how unfair it seems, the way it seems to put the burden on the recipient of the ill-will.

I do think that “bigotry” might be an inflammatory word, and consequently it’s not always an effective way to bring about change, even if it’s a correct and accurate description… The beliefs that your friend holds about LGBT issues do originate as bigotry, but your friend may honestly not be able, yet, to recognize that fact.

I adamantly disagree with anyone who says that LGBT rights are matters of “opinion”... (okay, I get a little angry.) ... and yet I’ve been around many people who say such things, and I can see how they are working to reconcile the years of being taught to hold certain intolerant beliefs with the social progress unfolding around them… I am guessing this is the same for your friend. Hard set beliefs don’t change easily or quickly, but they can and do change… Time is part of it. So are conversations. So is love. None of it is easy. I just hope society can get past these “opinions” soon.

I see that the OP’s account is gone. I hope they know that we support them as they try to figure out this thing with their friend.

Gosh. I didn’t Agee with all my friends on everything. Yes he can love you anyway.

This must be why I have very few friends and why I have trouble making new ones.

I can’t and won’t compartmentalize. I don’t see innocence in hate and bigotry. I question. I argue. My best tactic is the Socratic method. If a person won’t take me the way I am then I don’t want them in my life. Period.

I also think it’s bullshit to bring out the ‘playing the victim’ card. People who experience hatred and bigotry are victims of that violence just as much as someone who is killed or attacked for who they are.

Lately, I’ve been trying to understand and practice compassion. I’d call this a huge set back. Thanks fluther. Time to reevaluate.

“This must be why I have very few friends”

Join the club.

I have very few friends too. But it’s really my choice

Yeah. Babies. But itself a good discussion for us.
I think someone can disagree with something you do but if they don’t bring it up or preach or get rude they can stI’ll be a good friend.

Yes. I knew a woman who had a gay son. She loved him, and was fine with him being gay. She also was against gay marriage. I had a hard time understanding it, but I believe she loved her son. She also voted for Bush because he supported Israel. That drove me crazy too.

There is a very stark contrast between simply having a difference of opinion and actively working or voting to restrict the rights of someone. You can claim you love someone all you want, but if that person is LGBT and you’re voting to restrict their right to marry whom they choose, or to relieve themselves in the bathroom they feel most safe and secure in, then that is not a loving act. At best it’s an act done with callous disregard for the wellbeing of the person you claim to love.

It’s all very confusing. I heard that 66% of white males voted for Trump. Surely those 66% have women in their lives that they claim to love.

53% of white female voters cast that vote for Trump. Give it a rest Dutch.

That just shows there are a bunch of stupid, old white people out there.

@Darth_Algar They don’t see it as a “rights” thing. It’s different in their heads. They believe that people can use lawyers to get all the “rights” they are worried about like buying s house in both names, and making a will, and having a health proxy etc. I know it’s not the same as being married, but they don’t know the laws well enough to understand. They just focus on “marriage” from a religious point of view. They put it altogether, they don’t draw the line between civil and religious marriage, and their fed bullshit and misinformation from the people they trust.

So, they think you don’t have to be married to get equal rights. Some people are ok with a civil union, just didn’t want it called marriage. They have a block/wall in their minds when it comes to the word marriage.

It’s the same as everyone being in an uproar about death taxes, but then you tell people estate tax doesn’t kick in until over $5 million, and most people don’t know that’s the law. Or, that when you are in the 30% tax bracket, not all your money is taxed at 30%, just the money that is in the 30% bracket.

Most people don’t know any of those things. I could go on and on.

Exactly. Well stated.

@JLeslie

No matter how they see it the effect is the same.

^^Yes it is. No argument with that, but I’m talking about how we judge these people who are against it. People call them bigots and haters. That they can’t love someone gay if they are against gay marriage. I’m trying to say you can’t assume what is in their heart.

I judge people by their actions, not by what’s “in their heart”.

The question is about assuming what is in their heart though. We can condemn or disagree with their actions, but we can’t tell them whether they love or hate.

We rarely get to vote on a single issue, especially when electing people.

Personally I won’t vote for anyone who has it in their platform that they want to restrict marriage to a man and woman. That’s because my brother is gay and has made it very clear that it’s important to him. Unfortunately that’s still part of the Republican platform, so I’m left with few options really. If I don’t like anyone else up for that position, I leave it blank. That’s my way.

A friend in a similar situation disagrees. He’s not a bigot, he was once a sperm donor for a lesbian couple who approached him, he just thinks it’s impossible to simplify someone down to a single issue. He thinks it’s important to research and cast all the votes he can. To him, that’s how he makes a difference. That’s his way.

Our tendency to reduce people to a single dimension doesn’t do us a lot of favors. My way is probably too simple, but it feels right for the time we live in. Do we really want to label someone a bigot based on one piece of information? To me it’s a pretty serious charge to throw around and takes more than a passive apathy.

@JLeslie “The question is about assuming what is in their heart though.”

Yes, and one’s actions are usually a better indicator of what’s in their heart than their words are.

^^But, they don’t even try to cover up their actions with their words. Ask them if they vote against gay marriage and they tell you yes. They don’t lie about it. Maybe you mean you can say, “I love you,” and still do something that hurts that person. I think that happens all of the time. They really do love, and they still do something that’s detrimental to the person.

“I love you, but you don’t really deserve the same rights as me.”

I can see I’m not being heard. I want civil rights for all. You don’t have to convince me. I’ve always been pro gay marriage.

Maybe we will leave it that people have different definitions of love. Are we going to say a father who hits his child doesn’t love his child? I’m against hitting children. I don’t feel hitting someone is a sign of love, I think the opposite. I don’t question how much the father loves his kid, I question the father’s actions. Love is not enough in that instance, I don’t care that the father loves the child if he is abusing the child, but I’m not going to say the father doesn’t love the child.

You’re being heard just fine.

And yes, I do question how much a father who abuses his children really loves them.

@Darth_Algar Honeslty, from what I’ve seen that way of thinking damages a lot of people. It’s a harder road for most people psychologically. I’m glad I don’t frame it that way in my head. That’s my nonprofessional view just based on the people I interact with.

“He gets angry and hits me, but it’s okay because I know he really loves me.”

As someone that was abused by their father in their youth I can say “love” doesn’t matter when you’re being thrown into walls and dragged down the hall by your hair.

Or when you’re being called a “slut” at 14 years old because you arrive home from school 10 minutes later than your father thinks you should have, so he assumes you must have been with a boy.

(*Not something that happened to me, but to my mother.)

Sure. A nonbigot can too.

Who the fuck is saying it’s ok because they love you? I never said that. I don’t think it’s ok to vote against civil rights and I don’t think it’s ok to abuse anyone. Gawd, I give up.

@JLeslie
Not every reply to you is about you personally.

Me personally? I don’t get it.

I’m fine just agreeing to disagree, or whatever.

In other words nobody was saying or implying that you said that.

jonsblond here I deleted my account several weeks ago when I found out my daughter was transgender. I shared my struggles on a few questions and was then chastised by one member who basically told me “how dare you spend an evening on a holiday weekend coming to us looking for support. You should be with counselors. Take this seriously!!” ffs For nine years I’ve been able to open up here and not be attacked like that. It was too much for me. I hate strife, so when I’m confronted with it I usually bail. I created a new account, Tallahasseetwinkie, to ask this question. I was deeply hurt by my best friend of almost 40 years when she wouldn’t support me and my child during this difficult time. I thought I’d reach out to Fluther, something I’ve done for nine years with great success in the past, to try to understand how my friend can still claim to love me.

My friend may think she loves me and I understand that now thanks to the answers here, but that does not mean I have to accept her definition of love, especially when she votes for policies that affect the safety of my child. I’ll give you two examples of conservative friends who don’t understand the science behind being transgender. There’s my best friend of 40 years who ignored my struggles the past month and there is a past jelly friend. This old Flutherite reached out to me to say they love me and support me, even though they believe in only two genders. My childhood friend couldn’t even acknowledge I was struggling. Her fragile mind trumped my struggles. I believe in unconditional love and that’s what my jelly friend gave me. I can’t say the same for my childhood friend.

Thank you to all who answered this question without being rude. I was not looking for only answers that support my views. I was truly trying to understand my best friend. I have a loving heart and approach everyone as if they are the same. I’m gullible that way.

For the two who were rude and called me the bigot- I received this message from a friend two days ago:

“Sorry but I can’t condone that from a thirteen year old. Society is pushing our children that way. If one of my kids (7 of them) were to say that at 13. We would be in therapy the next day. Studies show it’s similar to bulimia or anorexia. I’ve seen this with other kids. Most of all GOD does not make mistakes like that. If he made you a female your a female if your a male your a male. GOD does not make junk. Being transgender is just another fad like fidget spinners” This is what I get to deal with the rest of my life. There are millions more like this person. I fear for the safety of my child.

I came to Fluther to get help to understand my friend. You called me the jerk and bigot. I wonder if you would have said the same thing if I had been using my jonsblond account. Did you say these rude things because Tallahassee was new? Don’t answer. This is why I hate this site.

Some of us knew it was you. Most of us replied decently and honestly. This is the Internet. There will always be answers you don’t like, wherever you are online. You are the one doing the generalized judging, painting us all with a broad and nasty brush. You have repeatedly accused us of having no compassion, then displayed little yourself.
I appreciate that things are enormously stressful for you, especially because I have a child with an illness that requires ongoing care; the situation is different, but the concern for my child is probably similar.
My point is that many of us have some crosses to bear as well, but we don’t come here and cast such a wide net of harsh judgement. Take note of the posts that are helpful or a comfort to you, ignore the ones you don’t like.

Because this is a text based platform for communication, it is not spontaneous. There are a series of steps taken to post, we can stop at any time before hitting send.
Take responsibility for your posts, walk away from ours if you don’t like them.

I am sorry your friend doesn’t understand, that is difficult when you need support.

Contact the LBGTQ advocacy groups at the universities closest to you, they may be able to put you in touch with people in your town, or at least a list of sites to visit, where you can make friends with others who have similar concerns.

If being in contact with that “friend” right now is difficult, then I think avoid her for now, and find support from others.

I do think your friend is trying to help you, not hurt you. I don’t know if the intention matters to you. I’m not saying it should matter to you, I’m only saying for me, it helps me not be so angry or disappointed or even anxious, when I understand someone’s intention is to help. It still might be unhelpful, I’m only talking about how I react to it.

I can understand why some people might see it like anorexia. It’s not uncommon for anorexics to want to stay so thin they don’t develop breasts and stop menstruating. They also tend to want to have some control over their life when they feel very little control. I’m not saying I agree with the line of reasoning, I had never heard it until this Q, but I can see where it probably comes from.

All the God stuff, that God doesn’t makes mistakes, is a complete and total turn off to me, so once someone goes there I have a lot of trouble.

If God is the creator, then he has created all of us, and all of the universe, and so then your child, no matter what gender he or she identifies with, is perfect in the eyes of God in my opinion. I don’t believe in God, but if I did I would believe God provides unconditional love. Being an atheist, I easily see all sorts of horrible in nature, and to say God doesn’t make “mistakes” is just stupid and it’s a mean thing to say to you also. Women die in childbirth. Perfect, innocent, infants die from illness. Humans are “imperfect” which to me means perfect is within all of us, because my definition of being perfect also includes imperfections. We create and live our own authentic life, whatever that is.

Much harm has been done throughout history under the excuse of trying to help. I don’t really think helpful intentions (genuine or not) excuse hurtful behavior.

^^I never said it excuses it, I said it helps me cope. Me. Helps me cope with huge disappointments and worse that I have dealt with. Feeling like people don’t care when you need them most, or when they are incompetent when you thought they should be competent, or when they are judgemental when they are supposed to love you, is very stressful. The way I handle the stress is to try to understand them. For me, not to be nice to them. It would have been nice if this friend of jonsblond had tried to understand, even though her fear might also be worked up. She has that fear of God thing.

You keep twisting my words, or at minimum not understanding me. And, yes, I take your response to be aimed at me even though you don’t have an @JLeslie. Even if you are talking to the group it still addresses what I said.

Again, I really feel we think about this completely differently, that’s fine with me. If the OP rejects my answer, that’s fine with me too.

Once again, not every reply to you is about you personally.

I am so sorry @Blondesjon. We back you and I think most of us are here for you both, all three of you. I know I am.
I find that “GOD doesn’t make mistakes” to be so freaking hypocritical I don’t even know what to say. What the hell is a “mistake” and what isn’t in GOD’S eyes? A transgendered person is a “mistake” but a baby born with anencephaly isn’t?

jonsblond here
@JLeslie I do not reject your answers here. I was looking to understand. I want to understand where my best friend is coming from.

I am thankful and appreciative of almost all answers on this thread. What I do reject are the two who called me a jerk and a bigot. I did not deserve those answers. I also reject the answer about me playing the victim. That was also uncalled for. I have no issues with any other answers here and I don’t see how I was rude at all on the thread. When I said “this is why I hate this site” I was referring to the rude answers on this thread andI was referring to the user who attacked me on a completely innocent thread a month ago. “How is May treating you” I replied with what my family is dealing with and a user attacked me and told me fluther wasn’t the place for me. She had no right to say these things to me on an innocent thread like that. The user was suspended for good reason. I can handle difference of opinions. What I can’t handle is people being jerks for no reason. This is why I’m out of here. Thanks for the support (you all know who you are.)

@Blondesjon

Eh, I wouldn’t concern myself too much over rude answers from people who couldn’t even bother to read the details.

@Blondesjon It was mostly @Patty_Melt and @SergeantQueen who were making those harsh statements, not @JLeslie.

@Dutchess_III The OP didn’t name me regarding the harsh statements. She said she appreciated my responses.

@Darth_Algar I guess maybe I’m so self absorbed I think everyone is always talking about me. ~

Thank you @Darth

I’m in a support group for parents of transgender children and someone shared this image today. It’s text messages between a so-called loving mother and her transgender son. It is heartbreaking to read.

Oh my God.

Not harsh, truthful.

Hey Jonsblond, we have transgender members here! You should talk to @JoyousLove, she’s very open and would love to talk about her journey with you.

She’s hurt that people close to her, who are supposed to love her unconditionally, are turning their backs on her and her family.

@SergeantQueen your truth

Maybe that’s why I don’t have a lot of “friends.” At the first sign of trouble they become judgemental and turn their backs on you.

^^Is that turning your back? What the OP’s friend did?

@SergeantQueen

You could not even bother to get the OP’s details correct. You don’t get to claim truth here.

Yes. That’s exactly what @Blondesjon‘s friend did.