Can I get your esteemed opinions on miracles?

And let’s not beat each other up, I’m just curious about these phenomena. I don’t give a rats ass what your religion is, or your lack thereof. This is a rhetorical question, peeps. Please be polite to each other.

What makes something a miracle? It would have to be an event that violates a scientific law or, at the very least, is highly improbable. Are there reasons why God would perform miracles? If there are reasons then miracles are lawful, which is a contradiction. If there are no reasons then God acts arbitrarily, which undercuts any reason for believing in God.

The unexplained DOES happen. The problem with sideshow carnival events (which most miracles duplicate remarkably) is in their isolated and limited scope. “Mysterious ways” aside, why the “miracle” cure for this or that occasional leper and not the elimination of leprosy altogether?

Always a rational explanation. When I was a practicing Christian one girlfriend in particular was always looking for miracles and I was always pointing out the rational cause. One time she actually said to me, “You always ruin everything!”

Smokey Robinson and The Miracles ?.........absolutely.

‘The ‘miracle of birth’ ??......Yeah, well….....OK…..I guess…..

Anything else…...nah…..... I’d likely just “ruin everything….”

They’re probably all intended to be understood as metaphors, not as literal/physical magic. The reasons for them being what they are are all symbolic, archetypal, and contain useful spiritual lessons which help a wise reader develop wisdom, humanity, and so on. They are extremely valuable when appreciated that way. (See Carl Jung, Michael Meade, Carolyn Myss, etc etc etc).

They are sometimes (often, in religions which have lost touch with their spiritual origins – e.g. Biblical literalists and various other demagogues) when used by people who want to control the foolish.

Only Simple Minds promise you a miracle…

@Zaku I can tell you that in the world I was in they weren’t not considered “metaphorical.”

Miracles don’t impress me much. What is miraculous is that things are generally so predictable. That water should remain water at all times so consistently is really more miraculous than that it should turn into wine.

What else would it turn into @flutherother, other than water?

People think it’s a miracle if water turns into something else I think the real miracle is that it stays water. It’s a miracle even if people are blase about it because it is commonplace.

I understand that, but what else would it turn into if it didn’t stay water? What else COULD it turn into without some intervention?

@flutherother makes a good point. What is so astounding is that the world operates according to scientific law without the need for gods or miracles. This viewpoint is comparatively recent in human history, dating back to the Greek philosopher Thales

If there is any such thing as ‘miracles’ then physics is it!

Jesus must have been the life of the party. Turning water into wine.

HEY…...YEAH…....No WONDER he had so many “followers”.

The whole thing makes MUCH more sense now…..

@Dutchess_III All too common. Sigh. :-/

Yep, miracles are nothing but physics. This includes images of the Virgin Mary shaped by the skid marks of a drunken Italian man in his BVDs. Not a miracle, the physics of how his shit went down. LOL

I experienced what I think were miracles twice. I can’t talk myself out of believing they happened or that I just imagined them but they made me a FIRM believer in an Afterlife. Why they happened to me I will never know. And to make it even more fabulous was I had a witness with one of them. I’d love it if you guys could believe in an Afterlife where I have no idea what goes on or why there IS one because I’m convinced. I’ve had a lot of Atheists try to talk me into alternative reasons for what happened but when you know something you just know it. And I have no idea if everyone goes “there” wherever there is. Or what they do. Just that one exists.

@Coloma you are one irreverant lady! And I probably misspelled that! lol

Anakin Skywalker was born from the Midi-chlorians. Virgin birth.

Well what was it @Aster?

Yo, enlighten us. I have an open mind. @Aster… and no one will trash you for your views on MY question, lol. It’s my ball and my bat, they don’t play my way, they go home.

^^^^ You’re not the boss of me! But I won’t trash you either. I admit I would probably look for a logical explanations tho.
I’m still curious.

Don’t hanker to be anyone’s boss. Just want to be a kind of a high private. And to keep things civil. ; )

Afterlife and return (past lives, many lives) seem pretty convincing to me based on the many people who have reported their experiences, and the people who’ve studied them. I too would love to hear @Aster ‘s experience. I don’t think of them as miracles per se but a phenomenon we don’t fully understand (and that literal materialist skeptics etc argue against).

I don’t believe in miracles any more than I believe that dreams “mean something.” Just because you or me, or the current crop of living scientists (or the scientists or clerics of the past) can’t figure out how something happens(ed) doesn’t make anything a miracle. It might be something interesting or rare, but not a miracle.

Total absolute hogwash.

Curing lepers, and the blind ??......Difficult, not impossible.

Walking on water, and water into wine ??......Impressive, but any two-bit street magician can make you believe those.

Resurrection after death ??........whoa….

I’m pretty sure even David Blaine can’t do that one.

(PRETTY sure, I said…..)

When unexplained events happen it depends on how you interpret it

I don’t believe in miracles. My theory on miracles is that they are events or occurrences not effectively understood and then given poorly thought out explanations. Those explanations are then not questioned thoroughly by others.