Can someone explain to me why people don't believe in events like the Sandy Hook killings, 9/11, etc?

He also tried to bring a fraud charge against some parents. It is sickening.
I think it is less about “not believing” than it is about trying to undermine the the argument for more strict gun control. My BIL, who lives 3000 miles away in another country, sent me an email, 3 weeks after the shooting, explaining how it had been misrepresented by the liberal press in order to promote an anti-gun agenda.
I live a few miles away. I know someone who lost her grandchild at Sandy Hook, and a relative of one of the teachers. I no longer speak to my BIL.

Today I am very glad that a few former users of Fluther are no longer around.

Willfull ignorance. Some people, for whatever reason, already have an idea in their minds about “how things are” or “how they want them to be” and find any reason, or no reason at all, to find things (or not find things) that support their ideas.

I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be willfully ignorant, other than the fact that it’s easier, and sometimes less upsetting. In this man’s case, it seems like it causes him more trouble. I’d say in his case, it’s more likely that he’s mentally ill.

Upon rereading your Q I see that you mean a broader “conspiracy” type thing. Sorry. Even a few ears later this is a trigger for me.

No @canidmajor your answer was what I’m looking for. I absolutely do not understand this mans motives, or even others that say 9/11 did not really happen, or was done by US government.

I have seen articles that can show connections between guys like this and the gun lobby.
I think @Kardamom‘s assertion that mental illness is involved helps to promote a greater misunderstanding of mental illness.

There tends to be a self-serving agenda involved in most of these things.

Some people think that skepticism is inherently a sign of intelligence.

The incongruity of some of the events is what brings out the conspiracy theories. Sandy Hook, 9/11, the Boston Marathon bombing…there are tons of youtube videos that will go into endless hours of why people believe these to be hoaxes. And to be honest, when questions are asked and the only answer is “you’re just a conspiracy nut!” instead of a thoughtful honest discussion, it only feeds the flames.

@chyna ^^That is two different things. I believe 9/11 happened. I just don’t believe the official version of it. I believe if not a false flag event orchestrated by our own government, it was at the very least known about and allowed to happen. Too many questions unanswered. Too much of a coverup. There is more to it than we are allowed to know.

He has figured out a way to get media attention, and probably some money.
Just like politicians. Some people will say anything for a pay-off.

Douche bags is as douche bags does. Some people just won’t believe anything.

~If we are all in the matrix, then nothing is real. Actually I believe that it is bio-diversity. Just in case.

With so many gullible, dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks people walking around, there will never be a shortage of crafty creep-shits ready to exploit them. And it’s only going to become worse, not better.

So, fasten your seat belt….

@canidmajor Why does my assertion that a person who denies the facts could possibly be mentally ill promote a “misunderstanding” of mental illness.

Look at Donald Trump. Plenty of what he says defies logic and facts. A lot of people, including a number of psychiatrists, think that Donald Trump is probably suffering from mental illness, including delusions.

Do you not believe that people who won’t/can’t see facts are not delusional? Some of them clearly are delusional.

I know some of the folks on Fluther do not care to hear the word “delusional,” but some people are delusional whether or not you want to hear that word.

Some people are mentally ill, and I suspect that Alex Jones is probably mentally ill, whether or not you like that word or not.

It’s about money. Conspiracy porn is this guys niche and it works well for him. He probably not mentally ill.

@Kardamom it’s cheap and easy. You mentioned this person specifically in your post, not Donald Trump, not others. Unless you are qualified to diagnose from the evidence you have, you are promoting a flawed, and ultimately destructive, representation of mental illness.
(BTW, you are not so qualified.)

@Kardamom Believing in conspiracy theories is not a symptom of mental illness in any way, shape, or form. Your assertion is an excellent representation of the stigma faced by individuals with mental illness that we are somehow intellectually deficient or dangerous.

Believing in conspiracy theories is not the same thing as delusions experienced by persons with some mental illnesses. It is not in the least comparable. Believing in conspiracy theories is done as a matter of choice. I do not experience choice when I experience delusions.

I would also like to point out that it is against their governing authority for any psychiatrist to diagnosis any individual who is not their patient.

To answer the OP, I honestly think that something new is happening in American intellectual life. A willful disregard for facts whenever those facts seem inconvenient or painful has arisen. It’s an extension of religion’s magical thinking.

Religion tells its adherents that they do not need factual evidence to believe their assertions. You simply choose to believe it for the good feelings it engenders. You may also choose to believe religious dogma because of fear of some type of punishment either now or later.

Conspiracy-theory believers often have difficulty with ideas of randomness. They see things as being planned or having meaning because a greater authority gave it a meaning. It is easier for some people to believe the world is controlled by a secret group, the Illuminati, than it is to admit that events are simply arising on their own as the result of our collective choices but not under any central guidance. It is more comforting for them to believe in control than chaos.

Alex Jones is a whack job. I do believe that 911 was an inside job, but I don’t listen to Jones, a lot of his listeners and fans border on being neo nazi and are anti Semitic. He even had David Duke as a guest one time, that guy is certifiably insane.

Another unqualified diagnosis by a non professional. <eye roll>

@NomoreY_A Ha! Then by your definition, you qualify for being a whack job for believing that 9/11 was an inside job!
I really don’t think these people are mentally ill. I believe they have an agenda, but I’m unable to understand what that agenda is.

Oh yeah? So you think the government explanation makes sense? A handful of “Arab terrorists”, who probably couldn’t have flown a kite, (a flight instructor referred to two of them as Dumb and Dumber) managed to highjack 4 big airliners, and fly at least 3 of them with great precision into their targets (Flight 93 is another can of worms), and right under the nose of Norad and the US Air Force. And completely unexpected by our myriad Intelligence agencies, despite earlier warnings that something was afoot by British, French, Israeli, and even Russian agencies. And despite being taken by surprise, the FBI had it all worked out by that afternoon, had the names and faces of the alleged perps plastered all over the TV. Go ahead and drink the kool aide. I call B.S.

This ought to prove interesting haha

@NomoreY_A The notion that 9/11 was an inside job is a conspiracy theory. The terror attack was studied, and a report was issued. Just because an event was difficult or even unlikely does not mean it was impossible.

@NomoreY_A
I’ll give you building 7 was a little odd but remember the Gov’t resonse to Katrina? That should tell you all you need to know about incompetence in our Gov’t. NIST also made public their detailed report of why the towers collapsed. I have skimmed over it and believe it happened as they say it happened. As far as some of the hijacking details, who knows. However, I do not believe it was an inside job.

@Coloma Some people are just incapable of believing our government could do anything like that. @Hawaii_Jake The Kennedy Assassination was studied and a report (Warren Commission) issued as well, I call BS on that too.

@NomoreY_A More conspiracy theories. They are fallacious.

A good conspiracy theory is magnetic, entertaining and somewhat novel. Conspiracies of course happen, just not usually the sensational ones. It’s mostly modern folklore.

@NomoreY_A I don’t think the government is incapable of anything but I do not belive that Sandy Hook, 9–11 or the Holocaust were faked.

@Hawaii_Jake The most fallacious theory of all time if the “Oswald did it” theory of the Kennedy Assassination.

@NomoreY_A Please, show us proof. We need facts.

Sandy Hook and the Holocaust were real, I never said otherwise. 9/11 and the Kennedy Assassination just just have too many lose ends and unanswered questions.

Here’s a fact. Oswald is grudgingly admitted to have been a lousy shot, even by “Oswald did it” fan boys. And no real expert marksman in the intervening years has been able to pull off the shots that Oswald allegedly pulled off, in the allotted amount of time.

I have been on the otherside of things when the conspiracy shit starts flying. It’s utterly laughable. To people without first hand knowledge it’s not so laughable. For too many spinning conspiracy stories is a source of income.

@NomoreY_A Oswald’s marksmanship is hearsay. It is not fact.

And LBJ himself, shortly before he passed, admitted in an interview that he had always felt that the Kennedy murder had been a conspiracy. He owned up to putting pressure on the Warren Commission because at the time, he suspected Russian involvement and didn’t want to cause a war.

@NomoreY_A Source?

Sitting over here on the grassy knoll munching on my popcorn.

@canidmajor Share, please?

@NomoreY_A LBJ’s feelings are not facts.

https://youtu.be/EfFMUWg39WU LBJ/ CRONKITE INTERVIEW 1969

@canidmajor I wouldn’t be sitting on any grassy knolls, historically unsafe places to sit. haha

I’m not entirely sure I buy the official Kennedy story. That’s about as far as I’m willing to go until real evidence surfaces. The problem with conspiracy nuts is they are willing to take speculation and circumstance seriously.

@Hawaii_Jake OK, so you have access to intell that a sitting or past POTUS would not have access to. Makes me fell all warm and fuzzy inside.

Sure, @Hawaii_Jake, it’s buttered and lightly salted!

@canidmajor Can we add Hawaiian mochi crunch?

@NomoreY_A If he had information, LBJ did not make it public. He merely stated what he felt. Feelings are not facts.

@Hawaii_Jake, damn betcha! Looks yummy!

I’m still going with mental illness based on Delusional Disorder

Those of you who have some type of mental illness, or know someone who does, this is not about you, it is not meant to disparage you. This is specifically about Alex Jones, and other people who believe that Sandy Hook is a hoax. That is Delusional thinking.

@Kardamom There is a difference between delusional disorder and delusional thinking . Your first link is about a diagnosable disorder. The second link states, “Beliefs based upon incomplete or incorrect information also do not qualify as delusions.” Conspiracy theories do not qualify as either delusional or a mental illness. In your post early in this thread, you incorrectly conflate willful ignorance with mental illness painting persons with mental illness as stupid.

I am not taking this personally. I am objecting to the stigma in your answer.

@Hawaii_Jake Actually I did not conflate willful ignorance with mental illness. Read what I said again. I said I couldn’t imagine why anyone would want to be willfully ignorant, other than that it is sometimes easier (meaning easier than having to admit the truth, or do any research). I then said that Alex Jones is probably (more likely is what I mean) mentally ill, rather than being willfully ignorant. Also, I have read my links, and they do say that people with delusional disorder sometimes have delusions of conspiracy theories.

I am pretty sure you are taking this personally, because on other threads, you have taken the mention of mental illness (in discussions about it, whether the initial OP was about mental illness or not) very personally, and you have also suggested that some of us cannot have any rational discussions about mental illness, and you have suggested that you because you are a “mental illness professional” are the only one qualified to know anything about it. I disagree with that completely. You are not a doctor, and with the exception of one or two of us here on Fluther, neither are the rest of us. So with any type of investigation, we do research. Which I did, and I provided. You don’t have to agree with, or believe any of it, and neither does anyone else. Everyone is free to do research and present their information, or not.

Oh, good grief. Alex Jones is someone with an agenda, who I believe to be supported, if not remunerated, by the gun lobby. You are so busy defending a casual statement you made that was somewhat offensive, to prove what? That you are right? You have said nothing that supports that. If I had them to hand (which I don’t, and I’m not going to spend my evening looking because you are convinced that you Know) I would link to the sources connecting him to alt right groups and the NRA.
Promoting an agenda is not the same as delusional thinking.

@Kardamom You do not get to decide when I am taking something personally and when I’m not. You are not sitting in my skin knowing what is going on with me.

Past events do not dictate what is happening at present.

I am a mental health professional. I am a Hawaii Certified Peer Specialist. I would like to ask all reading this to think deeply about the implications of what that means. I am certified by my state, meaning I have passed a training course and work in the field. I am a peer, meaning I am a person living in recovery from mental illness. (This one I would invite anyone to think very deeply about. I live with mental illness. I am in recovery from mental illness. That means I have insight into what it means to live with an illness that opens me to very difficult symptoms and often great societal stereotypes.)

I will not downplay my expertise, because another person thinks it’s inappropriate. I am very proud of where I am in my life. Actually, I am very proud to be alive. There was a time in my life – not a brief time – when I did not want to be alive. I walked through darkness, and I live in light now. I will not let anyone tell me I should not use that knowledge and experience.

Here are your words: “I can’t imagine why anyone would want to be willfully ignorant, other than the fact that it’s easier, and sometimes less upsetting. In this man’s case, it seems like it causes him more trouble. I’d say in his case, it’s more likely that he’s mentally ill.” The meaning is simple. If he’s not stupid, then he must be mentally ill, meaning it is at least as bad or perhaps even worse to be mentally ill than it is to be stupid.

I have no idea. I just met a guy about a week ago, an American from Detroit, who mentioned that the whole Sandy Hook thing was fake. Never heard of that one before and I immediately categorized with the moon landing thing. Do you realize how expensive and complicated that op would be to carry off? And how many people would be involved—in a society where nobody is able to keep their goddamned mouth shut for two seconds? My head spins when I hear bullshit like this. The dude from Detroit is otherwise fairly intelligent, too. I checked it out and it comes from very questionable sources, like TruNews, etc.

I tried to think what the motive for denying the Sandy Hook thing would be. What’s the objective other than sensationalism? I came to the conclusion that the random murder of 20 first and second graders by a fucking whackjob is really, really bad PR for the huge domestic small arms industry and the more paranoid 2nd ammendment people.

I would imagine that, if it was done like a professional psy-ops operation, this particular conspiracy theory might have backdoor financing by orgs like National Rifle Association—those orgs that are funded in turn by the small arms industry in order to protect their domestic sales volumes. These are very smart, very greedy people who always seem to find enough fucking morons who believe this shit who also have the right to vote.

It’s the goddamned internet, folks. Check and re-check your sources. Where did the story originally come from? Look for corroboration.

If you own mother tells you she loves you, check the fucking source.

The comments on this page are fascinating. Please keep in mind that your comments tell a lot about you. And some of the people making comments need to take a long look in the mirror. I’m seeing a lot of arrogance, condescension, and misplaced frustration and anger, and personal attacks. It was a simple question/statement decrying Alex Jones. Chyna is well within her rights to question his motives and statements. And others are also welcome to support them. But here’s something to think about while you belittle others over their belief in conspiracy theories: There have been conspiracy theories that people were ridiculed for and which ultimately were proven to be true. The conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 and Sandy Hook all revolve around the idea that our government staged the whole thing or were part of the whole thing. I don’t know anyone that was personally involved with either event so I will withhold my judgment on the validity of those claims or denials. But I will say this: If you believe that our elected officials would never do anything underhanded then you truly are delusional.

So, I guess the question @seawulf575 is whether Jones is saying it didn’t happen or that it didn’t happen as the official version said it did. Big difference there.

@rojo Jones is the same as every other “news” person out there these days. He has his opinion and spins the dialogue so that it presents one side of a story. You see the same on ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, FOX, WaPo, NYT, etc. Jones plays to a segment of society for ratings which convert into revenue. There are people out there that don’t believe Sandy Hook was real. Go to youtube and search Sandy Hook hoax. You will get hundreds of videos explaining why it was a hoax that point out all sorts of incongruities surrounding the events of that Dec 12. But just like the news agencies listed above, these can all be cherry picking information to spin a narrative. My opinion on a lot of the conspiracy theories surrounding Sandy Hook is that if they are false, it should be easy enough to answer some of the concerns that are the basis for the theories. Many of the concerns point right at government. If the government will not respond then they are not doing their job and are complicit in propagating the conspiracy theories. As for there being a big difference between saying it didn’t happen as the official story goes or it didn’t happen, I don’t know that there is a big difference there. The official story is that Adam Lanza took guns over to the elementary school and shot it up killing a bunch of kids and a few adults. Alex Jones could be saying it didn’t happen that way by saying there was something wrong with that narrative. But saying it never happened is still saying it didn’t happen that way. Saying it was all a staged production and no shooting occurred is still saying the official version is wrong.

@seawulf575 I do seem to recall the authorities were searching pretty intensely for a second gunman in the immediate aftermath. From the beginning there were reports of more than one shooter. I think the failure of the government to adequately answer the why the finally decided this was unnecessary and/or why it did not pan out do nothing but add wood to the fire on this story.

I haven’t read the thread and it looks like it got carried away. I listened to a podcast of Stuff You Should Know about conspiracy theorists. Turns out most conspiracy theorists use it as a way to feel in control in a world where almost everything is out of our control. Seems like this lack of control is a big cause of a lot of world issues.

Just “Let it go. Let it go.”

@rojo the second shooter was just one of the many things about this event that was handled poorly, not in accordance with protocol, and generally just strangely. And the officials never answered to any of the things. The second shooter was up in the wooded area right next to the elementary school and the police did get the guy. But right after they got him, there were shot of him sitting in the police car, in the front seat, not handcuffed or anything. In a situation where you have a shooting at a school and it is in the first few minutes of response, this sort of behavior with a strange person in the vicinity is odd. The official response was that the police asked him what he was doing and he claimed he was just walking in the woods and that was apparently good enough. Oddity. So, like with most things, given a vacuum of information, people will fill in with “conspiracy theories”. My opinion is that had the police acted properly with this guy or at least gave a good account for their apparent unusual behavior, this would have been a non sequiter. Even if the story was that it was Bob who was a poker buddy of the cop that showed up and the cop knew him and knew he frequently took walks in those woods. That would explain why they reacted the way they did. But as I mentioned, when the government doesn’t answer that simple question, they give fuel to the speculation fire.